No place for average PNMs?

[UGAalum94]

I thought troll too, at one point, but then I wasn't so sure.

I feel like it could go either way.

The longer I read GC, the more I think that all the really disagreeable or interesting posters are the sockpuppets of other users just stirring things up.

[ImanEmptyNester]

Let me start out by saying that I am new to Greek Chat. My neighbor who has two daughters that are currently in sororities, told me about Greek Chat and Greek Rank. I have a daughter who is a freshman and is very excited about recruitment. It starts next week at her school. She and her friends have been watching the television show Greek for the past two years, and my daughter is looking forward to making her campus smaller by joining a sorority. I do not know a whole lot about sororities; they did not exist at my college, nor were any of my family member’s part of a fraternity or a sorority. I am a professor at the local university which has a very active Greek system. I have seen many of the positive things associated with being a part of such groups and the negative as well.

The reason I was particularly interested in this thread is that my daughter is pretty average by most standards (she is quite remarkable to me however!). She is a good student, was a nice high school athlete – contributed but not the star, volunteered in our community and at church, and she is cute – you could say she cleans up nice. She is somewhat shy until she gets to know someone, but she is a responsible person and a loyal friend. She worked very hard this summer to earn extra money to buy a couple of new outfits for rush, the outfits were approved by my neighbor’s girls who are in sororities now. My daughter does not know anyone at her new school, which is in another state. I was hoping to find some information that would help me through a process that is very new and foreign to me.

I was disheartened by the comments of numerous posters that were directed towards KKGDGMom. Several of the posters provided sympathetic and caring thoughts on what could have occurred, however, many of you took on almost a “mob” mentality electing to dish up mean-spirited and hurtful remarks (flounce, annoying, psycho, heli, ridiculing her spelling, grammar, etc) to a woman who was most likely using this Greek Chat forum as an opportunity to express her disappointment, hurt, frustration, etc. with her daughter’s rush experience. I am sure that KKGDGMom’s experience as well as her older daughter(s) were positive or she would have not recommended rushing to her daughter. I am sure she is a mother who is very proud of her daughter (and it appears that she has a lot to be proud about – I am going to assume that the daughter was as presented) and is no doubt mystified and extremely saddened by what took place. Imagine how you might feel if a similar scenario played out during your daughter’s first few weeks of college or would have happened to you as a new freshman. Most disconcerting was the post that indicated that most of the posters were advisors, national officers, or active alumni members of sororities.

My heart goes out to all of the moms’ who have experienced the same disappointment in their lives. I would love to hear from other mom’s whose daughter(s) experienced the same thing and how they ultimately coped…perhaps that is a topic for a new thread. And for those posters who provided the snarky commentary to KKGDGMom, I would love to hear about the good things that you did for others during your pledge period. Thank you for letting me vent, I look forward to reading the follow-up posts.

[agzg]

I'm all for parents who read the forums or ask (reasonable) questions in order to better understand what their child is going through or help them with wardrobe questions.

I'm not all for parents who use the forums as a place to vent their frustration that their child did not receive a bid. We don't know anything about them or their kid, and can't give reasons as to why or why not a particular potential new member was bid. We can only make assumptions based on the posting style of the parent. If the parent posts like a jerk, we'll assume their kid is a jerk, plain and simple.

Regardless, we expect parents, especially those that are sorority members themselves, to be disappointed when their daughter doesn't receive a bid. Taking it to the point of disagreeing with a poster's (very thoughtful) post by posting snippy things like "you must not have kids" because the post doesn't (or actually might) apply to that one instance will not gain a parent points.

For crying out loud, get excited, disappointed, whatever - but when you take it to the point of whining about it on an internet forum, you've just earned yourself a heli-parent badge. There are much better people to vent to (like say, I don't know, actual FRIENDS). Coming here to whine makes them look like they want to "fix it" for them, or at least defend them when they either have nothing to defend themselves against or should be defending themselves. They're adults. It's hard to get over that, but parents do it all the time. In fact, there are a ton of parents on this board who did just that. They're active posters, and contribute a lot to many of our discussions.

Also, comments like "wah wah she'll at least get into her country club" make you sound like an even BIGGER ass. At that point, a parent has dug him or herself a hole, and the hole keeps getting deeper with comments like that.

If you would like us to understand your frustration, take a moment to try to understand ours - we have heli-parents "vent" on our forums ALL THE TIME. And ALL THE TIME they tell us things like "well I'm glad my daughter didn't pledge a sorority you're all bitches" because we don't think it's appropriate to whine about it here. What you're seeing, for many posters, is YEARS of frustration over this very issue.

In short - go ahead, read the forums, ask any questions you have, but when you take it to the point of posting like a jerk because your child was released from recruitment (which, if you actually DO read the forums you'll see that many of the regular posters do express disappointment because either we personally have been there before or we have friends who were released or whatever the reasons), we're going to treat you as such.

Good luck to your daughter.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ImanEmptyNester

Let me start out by saying that I am new to Greek Chat. My neighbor who has two daughters that are currently in sororities, told me about Greek Chat and Greek Rank. I have a daughter who is a freshman and is very excited about recruitment. It starts next week at her school. She and her friends have been watching the television show Greek for the past two years, and my daughter is looking forward to making her campus smaller by joining a sorority. I do not know a whole lot about sororities; they did not exist at my college, nor were any of my family member’s part of a fraternity or a sorority. I am a professor at the local university which has a very active Greek system. I have seen many of the positive things associated with being a part of such groups and the negative as well.

The reason I was particularly interested in this thread is that my daughter is pretty average by most standards (she is quite remarkable to me however!). She is a good student, was a nice high school athlete – contributed but not the star, volunteered in our community and at church, and she is cute – you could say she cleans up nice. She is somewhat shy until she gets to know someone, but she is a responsible person and a loyal friend. She worked very hard this summer to earn extra money to buy a couple of new outfits for rush, the outfits were approved by my neighbor’s girls who are in sororities now. My daughter does not know anyone at her new school, which is in another state. I was hoping to find some information that would help me through a process that is very new and foreign to me.

I was disheartened by the comments of numerous posters that were directed towards KKGDGMom. Several of the posters provided sympathetic and caring thoughts on what could have occurred, however, many of you took on almost a “mob” mentality electing to dish up mean-spirited and hurtful remarks (flounce, annoying, psycho, heli, ridiculing her spelling, grammar, etc) to a woman who was most likely using this Greek Chat forum as an opportunity to express her disappointment, hurt, frustration, etc. with her daughter’s rush experience. I am sure that KKGDGMom’s experience as well as her older daughter(s) were positive or she would have not recommended rushing to her daughter. I am sure she is a mother who is very proud of her daughter (and it appears that she has a lot to be proud about – I am going to assume that the daughter was as presented) and is no doubt mystified and extremely saddened by what took place. Imagine how you might feel if a similar scenario played out during your daughter’s first few weeks of college or would have happened to you as a new freshman. Most disconcerting was the post that indicated that most of the posters were advisors, national officers, or active alumni members of sororities.

My heart goes out to all of the moms’ who have experienced the same disappointment in their lives. I would love to hear from other mom’s whose daughter(s) experienced the same thing and how they ultimately coped…perhaps that is a topic for a new thread. And for those posters who provided the snarky commentary to KKGDGMom, I would love to hear about the good things that you did for others during your pledge period. Thank you for letting me vent, I look forward to reading the follow-up posts.

So an alleged PNM & collegian mother comes on GC to post, was unpleasant to us, and we're the bad people? Honestly, that poster comes out of nowhere, and we've been here for years. I doubt that the poster was for real, but your first post on here is criticizing us, and that doesn't set the tone well for you either.

I am not a mother, but I can tell you I am a daughter and I've managed just fine without my parents interfering and being overly involved in my life. I am old enough to enter contracts, marry, vote, and there was one time in my college career where my parents called campus that didn't involve the accounting office and making a payment. There was an issue with documents and as I was out of the country my mother sent the appropriate copies as she had everything on me since I was abroad. Many of us on GC and all over the world get through life (and join sororities) without the influence or interference of our parents and are not depressed, dropping out of school, or overly dramatic. I thank my parents for raising me to handle life and make good decisions, and would be mortified if they posted about me on the internet because for some reason something didn't work out the way I want it to. Disappointment happens every day and the majority of us suck it up and deal with it.

Let me quote a Delta Tau Delta here: “Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the bar.” The sooner young adults learn to deal with life not being sunshine and roses the sooner they can cope and deal with some of the crap a lot of us went through in college and graduate school. Many of us have been through some rough times (personal health crises, losing family members, substance abuse, and so on) and I'd rather be rejected from a sorority than go through any of that, ever, or again.

[gee_ess]

To be fair, I do think that most of the PNMs have no idea that their parents are posting their recruitment woes on the internet. KKGDGMom does not really give any info on how her daughter is actually dealing (negatively or positively) with this turn of events. We just have the mom's very emotional reaction. Hopefully, the daughter has moved on.

I am of the opinion (regarding most of the angry mom posts through the years) that they are like Serena Williams' outburst at the US Open - an emotional outburst that she is not very proud of and probably not her normal behavior. We have all had them.

We GCers probably just need to get a thicker skin. We KNOW that the mom is upset and not likely to react rationally to our advice (even though she asked for it). Each time a mom like this shows up, we get just as insulted and incensed as the mom because she is not listening to us. Seems to me that we are trying too hard to make someone understand when it becomes clear she doesn't want to.I am not denying this mom said some ugly things (The country club comment? Come on, Lady) but it doesn't change the fact that good advice was given, others will read it and learn, and, most importantly, we cannot change the way kkgdgmom feels. She is not in the mood, not now at least.

Regarding the new poster, I guess he/she is also entitled to an opinion. I am planning to ignore him/her.

[CougarGrad]

I'm confused. Were any comments deleted from this thread? I see a mom with a disappointed daughter who came out shooting, and a few GCers with some matter-of-fact commentary, but the only snarkiness I see is comments about country clubs.

Just axin'.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by CougarGrad

I'm confused. Were any comments deleted from this thread? I see a mom with a disappointed daughter who came out shooting, and a few GCers with some matter-of-fact commentary, but the only snarkiness I see is comments about country clubs.

Just axin'.

Nope, I don't think so. It's the typical disappointed mom thread.

Mom shares her disappointment and seems to ask or challenge GCers to explain how her daughter could have gotten these results.

Users answer with reasons why girls often get cut.

Mom gets mad because there's no way these reasons apply to her daughter.

Some posters feel mom's pain; some posters snark again.

The usual.

[gee_ess]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Nope, I don't think so. It's the typical disappointed mom thread.

Mom shares her disappointment and seems to ask or challenge GCers to explain how her daughter could have gotten these results.

Users answer with reasons why girls often get cut.

Mom gets mad because there's no way these reasons apply to her daughter.

Some posters feel mom's pain; some posters snark again.

The usual.

This!! Maybe we should just cut and past this as the first response in the next unhappy mom thread. It will save us and her a lot of time!

[Barbie's_Rush]

My experience is the apple doesn't usually fall very far from the tree. For instance, I have no doubt that ellebud and srmom's daughters are as lovely and gracious as their mothers and their recruitment results have and will reflect that. But if, as in the case of kkgdgmom, mom is so insufferably ungracious to the point where she herself can't even see it, I doubt if she or her perfect daughter realize how they come off to others. A little self awareness goes a long way, and it seems to be something that is sorely lacking in many "perfect" pnms (and their mothers) these days.

[UGAalum94]

Sadly, in my experience with girls rushing lately, the jerks tend to get bids and it really is some of the sweeties who end up dropping out* because they don't like their results. As far as I know, none of the girls I'd characterize as sweeties were absolutely cut out of rush, but when, probably because of shyness, they only get a couple of invites to the next round, they cut their losses and drop out.

In my experience, outcome doesn't always equal pnm merit.

*Not all the girl that I've know who dropped out are sweeties, but some of the least successful rushes that I know of were girls with great character who looked good on paper and were cute, but they were introverted and didn't have a chances to shine in the big recruitments.

ETA: on the other hand, these girls and their parents have the humility to not find fault with the entire system and instead just conclude it wasn't for them.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Nope, I don't think so. It's the typical disappointed mom thread.

Mom shares her disappointment and seems to ask or challenge GCers to explain how her daughter could have gotten these results.

Users answer with reasons why girls often get cut.

Mom gets mad because there's no way these reasons apply to her daughter.

Some posters feel mom's pain; some posters snark again.

The usual.

THIS.

[ellebud]

OMG, thank you!

I do know the pain of having a daughter not get the results she wanted. (I made reference to what happened in previous posts.) I will reiterate that there are rules that are unwritten. My daughter knew what to wear. She was a professional actress so she knew how to talk to strangers. But in the end, this is life and how you move on from disappointment AND success tells who you are. And despite my older daughter's past diappointment she was thrilled for her younger sister's successful recruitment.

I think that some of the disappointed moms aren't necessarily heliparents. They are hurting for their child. If you remember I had that flash during my daughter's recruitment when my daughter wasn't invited back to a favorite house. I swallowed hard and went on. And so did she. And that, I think, makes all the difference.

[KSUViolet06]

Good read.

[AuburnMom85]

Interesting thread. I'm so glad this is over......what an exhausting process!! My daughter just went thru recruitment and ended up with a group she absolutely loves. On paper, she was probably just average. Decent grades, but not exceptional, some leadership positions....but not Miss Everything. What I DO think she had going for her was her goofy, laid-back attitude. Ice Water Teas were pretty superficial, I think, but from that point on some of the conversations she had were so funny. Sure, she talked about philanthropy, etc.... But she also talked about some funny stories about being a non athlete on an athletic team. Several dropped her along the way, but she ended up right where she was supposed to be.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I think average PNM's, too, have to watch their "poker face" going through rush. I was active long before the RFM days, but I think that women who said certain things about being from a high school that all went XYZ or being involved in an activity that all go ABC could be easily cut from even chapters with a lot of invites, because the chapter presumes they have their minds made up.