Cover Causes Controversy

[Drolefille]

I know you didn't say in general, I meant at like a restaurant... sorry, I'm too lazy to type everything!

[ZTAMiami]

Originally Posted by 33girl

WOW.

You're certainly living in a different society than I am.

Really? Why are we even having this discussion then? If we lived in a child friendly society breastfeeding wouldn't cause a stir at all.

Pick up any mainstream parenting book or magazine. Read their "expert" advice. Go to babies r us and look at all the contraptions available so that moms don't have to hold their babies. Ever seen babies awake in their carseats for hours at a time in the mall, restaurant? Bottles propped so moms don't have to hold baby during a feeding? Ever heard of extinction or Ferber or Ezzo (www.ezzo.info) Having babies cry themselves to sleep for hours.....til they puke? This is reality for most American babies.

Everywhere I went when my daughter was an infant I got they why are you holding her/breastfeeding/picking her up when she cries. I got a lot of I did this with my child and he's fine blah blah..... These are the issues new moms face. Great way to bring on PPD.

Maybe you are not aware of these things as they are not of importance to you right now.

[Emory Kappa]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Personally I was just raised that breastfeeding is a private function.

I felt this way before I had a baby, and after breastfeeding for eight months, I still do. Though childbirth does cause one to lose a great deal of her modesty, I could never, would never nurse my son in public.

Then again, I still have those nightmares of arriving at school and realizing that I'm wearing pajamas.

[ZTAMiami]

Originally Posted by 33girl

for parents who don't want to explain it to their kids.

What?! Don't they cover the animal kingdom in grade school anymore? Did something change? Are we not considered mammals?

Do parents explain the cover of Maxim to their kids at the checkout line? Or do you mean the parents who don't want to explain to their kids why they were not breastfed?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Pick up any mainstream parenting book or magazine. Read their "expert" advice. Go to babies r us and look at all the contraptions available so that moms don't have to hold their babies. Ever seen babies awake in their carseats for hours at a time in the mall, restaurant? Bottles propped so moms don't have to hold baby during a feeding?

Well, I'm glad, Ms. Suzy Homemaker, that you had a personal maid to clean your house and take care of your business and a rich husband to pay for it all while you stayed home and held your baby every waking second. I didn't have that luxury. I still had a house to take care of and bills to pay, and so yes, I put my baby in a swing for a few minutes at a time. She slept and hung out in her carseat/carrier while I did the laundry. I propped the bottle for a minute when dinner was quickly becoming a fire hazard. I went to work and left her with a babysitter who had other children and couldn't hold MY child from 6 am - 5 pm.

And I have yet to see a BabyTalk or Parenting that tells you not to pickup/hold/cuddle/nurse/love on your baby. Maybe you mistook that for a copy of Dianetics.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Go to babies r us and look at all the contraptions available so that moms don't have to hold their babies. Ever seen babies awake in their carseats for hours at a time in the mall, restaurant? Bottles propped so moms don't have to hold baby during a feeding? Ever heard of extinction or Ferber or Ezzo (www.ezzo.info) Having babies cry themselves to sleep for hours.....til they puke? This is reality for most American babies.

Everywhere I went when my daughter was an infant I got they why are you holding her/breastfeeding/picking her up when she cries. I got a lot of I did this with my child and he's fine blah blah..... These are the issues new moms face. Great way to bring on PPD.

Maybe you are not aware of these things as they are not of importance to you right now.

This sounds like the Law & Order episode where the young mom listened to the "experts" on breastfeeding and was too STOO PID to listen to her own instincts - namely, that she should bag the breastfeeding and go to formula.

All the "fashion experts" say leggings are in for the fall, and they're selling them in all the stores. That doesn't mean I have to believe the experts, or purchase them. If I have a child, I'll be the same contrary bia I am with everything else in my life, and do what I think is best - forget the magazines, books, all that garbage.

Repeat these words after me: "This is my kid. Not yours. F off." I'm sorry if you felt pressured or that you weren't raising your child right, but it's a BIG BIG BIG leap from that to saying our society is "anti child."

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

This is reality for most American babies.

Not in my experience. Nor were the sorts of "hands-off" parenting that you are describing recommended in any magazines or books that I can remember reading. Not saying we live in a perfect-parenting society, but what you describe sounds like way over-generalized exaggeration to me.

As for the Ferber method -- it was much more helpful in teaching our kids how to fall asleep than us holding the babies, keeping them in our bed, nursing them to sleep, etc. The latter strategies meant that no one was getting a good night's sleep. We were the cranky-pants family the next day. Not good for anybody. (And the longest either of our babies cried with the Ferber method was 45 minutes the first night -- with no puking involved. Amazing how within a few nights, they were going to sleep on their own quite easily and with little if any crying.)

But what do I know -- I was raised by a nanny in Edwardian England. (Just kidding, of course. I was really raised during the reign of George VI.)

[Marie]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Well, I'm glad, Ms. Suzy Homemaker, that you had a personal maid to clean your house and take care of your business and a rich husband to pay for it all while you stayed home and held your baby every waking second. I didn't have that luxury. I still had a house to take care of and bills to pay, and so yes, I put my baby in a swing for a few minutes at a time. She slept and hung out in her carseat/carrier while I did the laundry. I propped the bottle for a minute when dinner was quickly becoming a fire hazard. I went to work and left her with a babysitter who had other children and couldn't hold MY child from 6 am - 5 pm.

And I have yet to see a BabyTalk or Parenting that tells you not to pickup/hold/cuddle/nurse/love on your baby. Maybe you mistook that for a copy of Dianetics.

Thank You!!! Many people today simply cannot dedicate the time that they would like to their kids. That is a big part of why these things are invented. Not b/c of some big corporate plot to make parents care less about their kids. Additionally, more and more people move away from their homes and families each year. As a result they don't have the support that they used to have and need more creative ways to get by. If you have many kids under the age of 5 and no one to help you, then you MIGHT need something to swing a restless little person or hold a bottle for you. Jeez!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

But what do I know -- I was raised by a nanny in Edwardian England. (Just kidding, of course. I was really raised during the reign of George VI.)

Are you sure it wasn't George I?

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Are you sure it wasn't George I?

Hey!!! I'm not that old!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Hey!!! I'm not that old!

BTW...how's the little man doing with his toilet etiquette?

[ZTAMiami]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Well, I'm glad, Ms. Suzy Homemaker

Hey, why the need for a personal attack and make assumptions about my life? Nothing you said was near the truth. And why are you trying to justify your decisions? Second guessing yourself much?

BTW, housework can be done while wearing your baby, fyi.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

BTW...how's the little man doing with his toilet etiquette?

LOL, you remembered!

We have a system where we give the kids "gotchas" when we catch them doing something well, treating someone particulary nicely, being particularly helpful or the like. When a certain number of gotchas are accumulated, they can be traded in for a treat of some kind. (Basically, we use them as positive reinforcement for behavior we are trying to encourage.)

The other day he came out of the bathroom, while I happened to be out in the hall. I called him into the kitchen and handed him a "gotcha." He looked puzzled and asked, "What's this for." "Because," I said, "I was standing in the hall and I heard you put the seat down before you flushed."

Mom started clapping.

[PenguinTrax]

I'm sorry AlphaFrog, but I disagree. I worked MORE than fulltime, took care of a large home and stayed active in many volunteer activities and my son never spent a minute in a swing and was never in a car seat longer than it took to transport him from point a to point b (unless he was already asleep). I am not independently wealthy, did not have a live-in maid or anything of the sort. And, for the record, neither does ZTAMiami. It was a struggle for her, financially and otherwise, to stay home with her child. You do what works for you...obviously the lifestyle ZTA Miami described is not your choice and that is fine. As my mother says, that is why there is chocolate and vanilla, so that everyone can have a choice.

This thread was a discussion on the magazine cover and has now devolved into people scorning others for the parenting choices they have made. That is sad.

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by Marie

As for breastfeeding in public, I have no problem with a woman feeding her child. I would much rather prefer that she used a blanket (or something similar) to cover herself, rather than just unbuttoning and parting her shirt and exposing herself. I know no one on here (nor their wives) have done this, but it certainly has been done by others in the world. Not everyone cares to be discrete.

That's why they make nursing tops - so that mothers can feed discretely. It's easy to say 'throw a blanket on for coverage' until you've actually had to do this and you are faced with a squirming bundle that is more interested in tossing off the blanket than nursing (and you are leaking milk everywhere to boot). I gave up after the first attempt and spent a small fortune on nursing tops, dresses and appropriate undergarments. I was never once asked to cover up or leave a room.