Atheists as members?

[gamma_rho_omega]

.................................

[blkwebman1919]

Originally Posted by DSTRen13

For most of my life, I've been surrounded by people who only consider very select Protestant denominations to be "real" Christians - Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and my own church (since we rejected the Protestant label) were not allowed in the club.

Ironic, since the Protestant Reformation (led by Martin Luther) references those groups that separated from the Roman Catholic Church, which until then was considered the universal church. In fact, some "old-line" Catholics believe Protestants have basically "lost their way" and that the only way to salvation is for them to basically return to the "one true Faith". The Church as an institution, however, has modified their stance on that over the years.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by blkwebman1919

Ironic, since the Protestant Reformation (led by Martin Luther) references those groups that separated from the Roman Catholic Church, which until then was considered the universal church. In fact, some "old-line" Catholics believe Protestants have basically "lost their way" and that the only way to salvation is for them to basically return to the "one true Faith". The Church as an institution, however, has modified their stance on that over the years.

Yeah, nowadays it's "We're all Christians" and while it would be better if they were Catholic, they're following Christ and that's what matters.


/Loves JPII and Benedict isn't as bad as some people were afraid he would be

[RU OX Alum]

Benedict was only elected to protect him from investigations.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

Except that Christians claim that Jesus is YHWH -- something Jews and Muslims would catagorically deny and perhaps even consider blasphemous.

Just as one example.

Not all Christians claim that Jesus was/is divine. Furthermore, there has never been any scripitual evidence (i'm discounting a forced mistranslation of Genesis) that "trinity" is "real." (I used quotes b/c I'm not Christian)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

Not all Christians claim that Jesus was/is divine.

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by MysticCat81

My apologies as well. [B]Yes, people can disagree on what Christianity was intended to be, or is now. But that was not my point.

My point was that words have meaning -- generally ascribed meaning. Otherwise, they are a useless form of communication. Since at least the Fourth Century (if not earlier), the generally-agreed upon "definition" of what makes one "Christian" has included trinitarian belief.

Many people (and faith traditions) do not share this belief and still call themselves Christian. That's their prerogative, and my point is not that I have a problem with that. My point is only that just because one describes one's self as Christian doesn't mean that the majority of Christians in the world would recognize the person as a Christian.

Some may say that's intolerance or exclusivity. I don't think it is, necessarily at least.

Nicea/Chal whatever councils were designed to gain political control for Constitine and his Bishops.

[RU OX Alum]

Unitarian Universialist. Right there in the name. Unitarian. Not Trinitarian.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

The post above responses to this.

For example, King's Chapel in Boston. They edited the book of common prayer to become "Anglican in worship, Congregasional in polity, and Unitarian in Theology."

During the reformation, many Unitarians were burnt at the stake for being the wrong kind of Christian.

The Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations does not claim to be christian. YOu don't have to be christian to be a UU.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

The Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations does not claim to be christian. YOu don't have to be christian to be a UU.

You just agreed with AlphaFrog, you know that? She said that Christian denominations DO all view Jesus as divine, and then challenged you to provide the name of one Christian denomination that doesn't. The example you provided is not a Christian denomination. So, the two of you are pretty much on the same page.

I hate that I helped perpetuate this hijacking. The thread is about Atheism and membership, not about the specifics of different religions. I'm all for an intelligent discussion about such differences, but perhaps that should be its own thread... maybe in Chit Chat?

Back on topic, I think the question of what each member's religious preference is should be an issue to be dealt with only by that member. If someone is Atheist and joins a group that requires, for example, oaths to be sworn over a Bible, then it is up to that person to decide whether he/she is comfortable with that. If the person is a good brother/sister, it shouldn't matter to the chapter whether or not he/she prays and if so, to whom. Just my two cents.

[ADPi Conniebama]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I would feel very uncomfortable if Alpha had a Christian message such as the one on the Omega site. I believe that having Christian values is fine, but I don't want anyone in my fraternity to evangelize to me.

*** from the Creed of Alpha Delta Pi***
" . . . I believe that the principles established by our founders in 1851 are enduring attributes exemplifying the highest ideals of Christian womanhood,. . . "

So with that being said I wouldn't "evangelize" anyone because I am an adpi, I would "evangelize" someone because I am a Christian.

I am sure that most people have had religious conversations with their sisters or brothers, and I don't feel that because I am a Christian I am not suppose to discuss my beliefs with a professed atheist who also believes that the founders were Christian.

So, my opinion on this thread is YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN TO BE IN A "Christian" society, but it would probably be easier if you believed in Christian ideals.

(edited for spelling errors)

[kddani]

Originally Posted by ADPi Conniebama

YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE A CHRISTIAN TO BE IN A "Christian" society, but it would probably be easier if you believed in Christian ideals.

(edited for spelling errors)

As has been said before, there's not really any difference between "Christian ideals" and just being a plain old good person. Don't lie, don't steal, don't murder. Really, there's really no difference between Christian ideals and good 'ole clean living and being a good person.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Yes, they do. Hence, CHRISTian.

Please, name one denomination that doesn't.

Well the Cathars did for one, which is why the Church went after them.... but on a more modern note many denomonations that follow Gnostic teachings believe in the divinity of Jesus, but not that he was divine - or more simply that he was divinly created and guided, but not he himself of God...

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Well the Cathars did for one, which is why the Church went after them.... but on a more modern note many denomonations that follow Gnostic teachings believe in the divinity of Jesus, but not that he was divine - or more simply that he was divinly created and guided, but not he himself of God...

Like I said before, name one. "Many denominations" doesn't help the cause. I could say "Many denominations drink gerbil blood and sacrifice emus on Tuesdays", but it doesn't mean anything, because you still haven't named anyone spesific.

ETA: And I'm talking on this side of Lincoln's assassination, not when people thought the Earth was flat.

[Cube TX]

This is a bit of a hot-button topic, but here's my worthless opinion.

I'm not sure why an atheist would WANT to join an organization that proclaims itself to following a certain faith. When I was chapter vice-president we had an atheist associate who complained non-stop about our creed and associate ceremony mentioning Jesus and the Bible as ideals. Finally we had to ask him why he would join an organization whose ideals he disagreed with. He was let go because the problem snowballed as he became more upset and personally I was glad to see him go (last I heard he was a huge drug fiend after flunking out of college... have a nice day).

As a Christian would it make sense for me to join an atheist group? Of course not. I think they have their right to exist, so I don't bother them. This is just my view.

I don't think anyone should be quarantined or banned because of their beliefs, but that person should know what they're getting themselves into before spouting off about "forcing beliefs" on them. No one MADE them decide to join.