Paper Members

[PositivelyAKA]

it is sad to hear some of the comments on this board although i respect everyone's right to an opinion. I agree with the Iota member he made very valid points, but at this point i am really just concerned that my organization doesn't get sued out of exsistence by someone whom we didn't choose to put on line and they ended up calling nationals, or because of some crazy soror (just being real) who gets her kicks out of beating on her fellow black sisters.

it is true that some people do not have any love for members after 90 or those who didn't get to pledge, or chose not to do so. so if you are thinking of going greek, THINK AGAIN because I have seen grown people act a fool over this topic. I wish they would have more concern for the struggling inner city youths or the chapter meeting they are not attending again this month. i do think it rather hypocritical to say you will uphold the frat/soror and then in the next breath break all the governing rules, i guess some people are just that selfish. but i've learned that a fool will not listen to reason, oh well.

i have seen the divisiveness that is going on and it is heartbreaking. but my solution is to work in my chapter to do what is right, and that is to make strong members, build sisterhood (the right way)and to work for the community which is our goal (some of us) perhaps if i had been beaten to a bloody pulp and humiliated while on line i would be bitter too, and want to bring the wrath on others that come after me, but that wasn't the case.

Mip has some flaws, but at least those who go through it are following the direction given by our organizations and i can't help but to respect someone who in the face of adversity does what is right, rather then to follow the crowd and people please. i find it hard to respect someone who spends their life judging others instead of using their energy to do the work they said they would do when they first saw the light. i hope that every greek that is so adamant about this topic is also adamant about getting their check to nationals this coming year so they can really make a difference where it counts.

how would you feel if a frat/soror didn't respect or show you love because you were not made at alpha chapter, or at a HBCU or on the east coast or in a chapter chartered by a founder? think about it.

are sorors/frat whose chapters are being reinstated after a suspension (and wanted to pledge) and have no current members to pledge them, are they considered paper too? is it their fault the members before them got suspended? or should we just not take any new members in those chapters, heck let them stay inactive. active chapters vs paper, hmmmm.

My point was that it has been explained to me by several Sorors who I have known for a long time who did go through a pledging process that the sorors in my chapter do not respect/accept me because they feel I know the things they learned about my chapter and National organization and the many other things that are privliged by membership.
I understand that many people see me as less of a member and their opinions will never change on this topic. But those who mature with age should come to the understanding that a pledging process does not make someone a better member, but one's character makes them a better member. My point?....Don't be a hyprocrite. I've learned through my own life lessons with my sister that LOVE and sisterhood is unconditional. And when you enter a greek oganization you are entering a brother/sisterhood where your love is unconditional.

[1906]

Love is not unconditional. If you did not pledge my frat, yeah I love you as a black person but if you are an Alpha and did not pledge I could care less about you on the brotherhood level. For the girl who said, what if the chapter is suspended. Well, the suspended chapter should just continue making new members. That way the chapter still continues despite nationals. Now a lot of you skated and I understand this so this sounds absurd to you.

I can not believe all the people who say that the national organization says its this way so screw what our founders wanted. 7BA94 said it best if MIP was what the founders that is all we would know. This includes all of you in sororities. If your founders wanted this, then MIP would be all you know. Do you think if the founders were alive they would like MIP. He!! No. I understand Iota was founded under different pledging priniciples from the rest of NPHC so not pledging is ok with there founders. If pledging was so wrong, why didn't the founders get rid of it. The Q also said it well our founders were all young and we trust the priniciples those young people developed. Yet we can not trust todays young people. That is ridiculous.

Then some ridiculous girl tried to compare pledging with slavery, absolutely upsurd. Slavery was imposed on people. People who pledge are there willingly. They can leave at any time. A slave did not have this option. Pledging is a choice; a person can choose not to be a part at any time. The reason people sue is they get mad most of the time about there own failure and want to lash out, or there parents get mad, or just pure greed.

Long post for a long topic. To all who skated, I'm sorry you had no heart to go through the process correctly the way the founders wanted things. Mad love to all my Ice Cold Bruhs.

<b>7BA94</b>...Oops I mean't to say <b>1906</b> - you are cracking me up!

[mojo]

So what do you think about honorary members?

[mccoyred]

Then we have the issue of "ghost" members. Wasn't this discussed in another thread?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1906:
For the girl who said, what if the chapter is suspended. Well, the suspended chapter should just continue making new members. That way the chapter still continues despite nationals.

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mccoyred

Dynamic
Salient
Temperate

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by 1906:
Love is not unconditional. If you did not pledge my frat, yeah I love you as a black person but if you are an Alpha and did not pledge I could care less about you on the brotherhood level.

How very sad.....I hope you are not a parent. I for one am glad that my parents, sister, husband and most of all my GOD love me unconditionally. True love, agape love, is unconditional.

[1906]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
How very sad.....I hope you are not a parent. I for one am glad that my parents, sister, husband and most of all my GOD love me unconditionally. True love, agape love, is unconditional.

First off the post I think makes it quite clear, if not I am clarifying it know, that fraternal love is not uncoditional. I think that should be nuff said. You must of skated.

[mojo]

1906 -- Do you feel the same about honorary members? They did not pledge.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by 1906:
First off the post I think makes it quite clear, if not I am clarifying it know, that fraternal love is not uncoditional. I think that should be nuff said. You must of skated.

Fraternal means brother so fraternal love should be like brotherly love. Do you not love your (blood) brothers because you went through something that they did not? "Skating" has nothing to do with it. I understand the concept of love. You do not.

[1906]

Originally posted by Eclipse:
Fraternal means brother so fraternal love should be like brotherly love. Do you not love your (blood) brothers because you went through something that they did not? "Skating" has nothing to do with it. I understand the concept of love. You do not.

If they did not pledge they are not my frat brother, there is no need to show them love on that level. I still think you skated, or maybe you are not in a GLO.

[Salience]

10/3/00 <Note: I have checked my temper and clipped the unnecessary jabs I made last night>

This is so sad and futile.

Hating on people who have no control of their initiation, when the POWER is within the CURRENT members to CHANGE things. Uh huh. So, where's the logic? Just admit your desire to beat someone is not logical, just reflexive and traditional, and I will let it go.

Did I tell y'all 'bout my X, A Nupe? Got so pissed at the fact he couldn't bring people in properly, he went inactive. HMM. How about- you elect men/women who agree with your principles?

As an interest, this is really dismaying. Because, I being who I am, if you step to me on that immature a level and expect me to pimp myself and get slapped by someone other than my mama, you will undergo a Salient test of your sanity.

Is this why we as a people have not progressed as far as we should have ?

LOL (wryly with a hint of despair)

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@~~^~~~~
The most beautiful thing in the world is, precisely, the conjunction of learning and inspiration.
-- Wanda Landowska

[This message has been edited by Salience (edited October 03, 2000).]

[DoggyStyle82]

Salience, you are in no position to state a "qualified" opinion, though you are entitled to your specious and un-informed one. Did any pro-pledging person mention or justify abusing anyone? Did anyone say that if they didn't smack you in the face that they would not consider you a soror? I have been a member of my frat for more than 10 yrs without ever smacking, injuring, or humiliating another Black man, however everyone under my jurisdiction PLEDGED their A$$ off. Some dropped, some didn't want it enuff, some were cat, but the REAL MEAN made it. If pledging isn't for you, if you can't humble yourself, or if you think you deserve the letters because you have the grades and some community service, so be it. If you feel what 100,000 other women went thru to get their letters is beneath your dignity, thats cool also, but you want whatever sorority you want because of the traditions and the people who pledged under those same traditions built and stand for. And can we please drop the argument about the "founders not pledging" The founders designed the pledge process. They were alive during the worse periods of hazing and not one of the Elite 8 founders tried to ban pledging. One of my founders was chairman of the Pledge Committee til he died in 1972. If he designed and oversaw the pledge process, thats good enough for me.

[Salience]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82:
Salience, you are in no position to state a "qualified" opinion, though you are entitled to your specious and un-informed one.

Doggy: where did I say I was "qualified?" This is ADMITTEDLY strictly my opinion. And what IS your conceptualization of the term qualified? What is the meaning of the term is? Oh, I get it: b/c I'm not in a BGLO, I should shut the hell up about a topic that may, should I be blessed by a grant of membership, affect me one day. K.

Did any pro-pledging person mention or justify abusing anyone? Did anyone say that if they didn't smack you in the face that they would not consider you a soror?

Wow, I read so many replies, not sure, but I can concede the point, for argument's sake, that they didn't. For NOW. But, people who are pro-pledging have mentioned taking wood as acceptable. Eh, I dunno, I think that can be humiliating and violent.

I have been a member of my frat for more than 10 yrs without ever smacking, injuring, or humiliating another Black man, however everyone under my jurisdiction PLEDGED their A$$ off. Some dropped, some didn't want it enuff, some were cat, but the REAL MEAN made it.

K, Doggy? <blinking coquettishly> What do you consider pledging? Congrats to you for your vision and patience.

If pledging isn't for you, if you can't humble yourself, or if you think you deserve the letters because you have the grades and some community service, so be it. If you feel what 100,000 other women went thru to get their letters is beneath your dignity, thats cool also, but you want whatever sorority you want because of the traditions and the people who pledged under those same traditions built and stand for.

Wait, hold up. Let me clarify the point of my late night rant, which in my verbose nature, may have been obscured:

Greeks who pledged hating on Initiates who COULD NOT HELP THE WAY THEY CAME IN, to me, is sad and futile. Why are they called paper, when THEY did NOTHING directly to bring about the MIP? Those folks who sued, called your Headquarters, beat down pledges, pimped pledges, etc., are more culpable. Do you understand where I'm coming from?

Further, you have no idea what I am willing to go through, sacrifice for, and work towards in my pursuit. I can't say, "sure, walking in line is no biggie," or "wearing white tee shirts and blue jeans everyday is cool," and "social silence is fun." I cannot say what I will or won't do, that's just insane, I know I'm not running anything. You can throw pebbles at my integrity, imply a lack of understanding of historical significance, and suggest misplaced snobbery. I know you're off the mark, and I would expect you to be- we don't know each other. So, you have your opinion, but I wouldn't call it "qualified."

And can we please drop the argument about the "founders not pledging" The founders designed the pledge process. They were alive during the worse periods of hazing and not one of the Elite 8 founders tried to ban pledging. One of my founders was chairman of the Pledge Committee til he died in 1972. If he designed and oversaw the pledge process, thats good enough for me.

Hey, Dawg... whatever you say. I have no idea, and will completely defer to your knowledge as a Son of Blood and Thunder. I have no clue what the Four Founders (or another org's Founders) were about. Because, I really did mean the violent, demeaning, reprehensible aspects of hazing, not "pledging."

See, Doggy? It's not hard to get along with me...

Kisses!

Sal

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@~~^~~~~
The most beautiful thing in the world is, precisely, the conjunction of learning and inspiration.
-- Wanda Landowska

[This message has been edited by Salience (edited October 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Salience (edited October 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Salience (edited October 03, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Salience (edited October 05, 2000).]

Originally posted by Reds695:
Do you have respect for members of your organization that are considered only paper? I've heard people say you can't pick your process. I mean wouldn't you be pissed if you worked your ass off on line and someone took the easy route.

If you are paper you are paper! If someone makes you that is paper then you are still cat! So there are paper is processing more paper in this world! Give them a match so we can burn them all and use the ashes for new growth in the yard.