Teacher's salaries

[HelloKitty22]

Originally posted by kddani
No, because this is MY school and I KNOW the teachers. There are only a very few doctorates. And as I said earlier, people with a PhD I understand. I don't think all of them have masters, especially the ones who have been there long enough to make the top bucks. Many of the ones with more experience were some of the worst teachers, who were only there in body until their retirement. As a previous poster said, having us watch movies while they read a book.

I think what you are reacting to is more about the issue of teacher tenure rather than a teacher's salary. I personally support tenure because I don't believe that teachers should be fired for being "unpopular" or for teaching unpopular topics or views but there is a lot of concern about whether teacher tenure insulates people who aren't doing their job from getting fired.

[kddani]

Originally posted by texas*princess
If there was a problem with teachers back then, maybe something should have been done about it back then. If no one tells them they aren't doing their job, they are going to keep doing it the way they were.

As a 17 year old kid (or younger) I didn't have any power.

And that's another BIG problem, is that with the unions, there's not much that can be done, especially to the "well-tenured" teachers, unless they do something illegal. The only teacher that I knew that was let go had called a black student the n-word in class.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by valkyrie
How do you know what a teacher is learning every day? Do you think they all learn some concepts and do nothing but regurgutate them over and over for years until they die a miserable, unintelligent death? I'm sure teachers learn all kinds of new ideas and subjects and all kinds of things -- they have to stay current.

On the other hand, I know plenty of stupid attorneys who don't learn anything new ever and just recite the same old B.S. crap every day in court.

thank you valkyrie

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
thank you valkyrie

Right. Most teachers are studying up on the latest concepts in fiber optics to teach to those whipper snapper 7 year olds.

-Rudey

Originally posted by kddani
Sorry if it came across that way, but that's not how I meant it.

I learn new things everyday in the law. I'm sure you learn something new every day as a teacher, but it's a different kind of knowledge.

I never said one was better than the other. Don't put words into my mouth, please. I picked what was best for me, what I found to be most appropriate and enjoyable for myself.

And, not to be rude, but there are plenty of teachers out there that aren't as smart as me. Looking at some of the people that I know are teachers, I can say for certain that I'm smarter than they are. I'm sure there are some that are smarter than me. But that goes for anyone. Don't go looking for something that's not there in my post

I'm not looking for something that's not in your post, I was commenting on what you did say. And yes, I know plenty of stupid teachers, I'm sure there are some stupid lawyers out there too that you know. Education does not equal intelligence.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by kddani
As a 17 year old kid (or younger) I didn't have any power.

And that's another BIG problem, is that with the unions, there's not much that can be done, especially to the "well-tenured" teachers, unless they do something illegal. The only teacher that I knew that was let go had called a black student the n-word in class.

Even when they do something illegal, they are not let go. They are moved to desk jobs somewhere because the union can do that - unless it's incredibly heinous. And let's not all forget their pensions either.

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Right. Most teachers are studying up on the latest concepts in fiber optics to teach to those whipper snapper 7 year olds.

-Rudey

whatever Rudey... it might not apply to kddani's old school, but every teacher I knew did attend lots of workshops and things to learn new teaching techniques and ideas. And I know this because my mom worked in the school district I attended and she'd be at those same workshops.

I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy your teachers or appreciate all the crap they did for you, but I do.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by Rudey
Again, to teach you don't need an advanced degree in nuclear physics. A teacher's work is not so difficult that many people couldn't do it. I'm sure those that teach and have PhD's end up in higher roles than teachers even.

I'm not sure where you came up with the fact that your state has a lack of adequately trained teachers, but I wonder if whomever told you that looked into other fields.

-Rudey

You underestimate the skills that good teachers have. No, it is not as complex as being a nuclear physicist. I never said it was, and I have no personal knowledge of the salaries of those who work in that field.

And it's not "someone" who told me that my state is suffering from a lack of teachers. All over the state, open slots are being filled with lateral entry teachers, who have college degrees but no training in education. These teachers then work in the schools while simultaneously taking a limited number of classes in methodology to be granted a teaching certificate. Not to mention that many programs like music, art, family and consumer sciences, foreign language, and vocational education are being scaled down or dropped altogether because there are not enough appropriately trained teachers to fill those positions. Education, both at the elementary and secondary level, is one of the fields with the highest demand for employees right now.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by texas*princess
whatever Rudey... it might not apply to kddani's old school, but every teacher I knew did attend lots of workshops and things to learn new teaching techniques and ideas. And I know this because my mom worked in the school district I attended and she'd be at those same workshops.

I'm really sorry you didn't enjoy your teachers or appreciate all the crap they did for you, but I do.

Hey I didn't say anything. I said those teachers are learning about fiber optics and I hear next year a couple of them are doing all they can to learn about string theory. There are also some really brilliant 3rd grade teachers who are learning about the Black-Scholles model because they have a nack for financial math.

-Rudey

[Rudey]

Originally posted by CarolinaCutie
You underestimate the skills that good teachers have. No, it is not as complex as being a nuclear physicist. I never said it was, and I have no personal knowledge of the salaries of those who work in that field.

And it's not "someone" who told me that my state is suffering from a lack of teachers. All over the state, open slots are being filled with lateral entry teachers, who have college degrees but no training in education. These teachers then work in the schools while simultaneously taking a limited number of classes in methodology to be granted a teaching certificate. Not to mention that many programs like music, art, family and consumer sciences, foreign language, and vocational education are being scaled down or dropped altogether because there are not enough appropriately trained teachers to fill those positions. Education, both at the elementary and secondary level, is one of the fields with the highest demand for employees right now.

What are the skills since I underestimate them?

And since someone didn't tell you, do you actually have proof that your state is understaffed on teachers and is hiring incredibly untrained ones? Or is this just hearsay? And how does it compare with other fields? Perhaps law firms are hiring untrained lawyers.

-Rudey

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Rudey
Hey I didn't say anything. I said those teachers are learning about fiber optics and I hear next year a couple of them are doing all they can to learn about string theory. There are also some really brilliant 3rd grade teachers who are learning about the Black-Scholles model because they have a nack for financial math.

-Rudey

...not amused

[33girl]

Originally posted by valkyrie
I don't get this -- if the teachers do live in the school district, are they required to buy a house or condo. so they're paying property taxes? If not, why does it matter where they live?

They're not required to buy a house, but it's assumed that if they rent, property taxes will be passed on to the renter by the landlord. If you're renting in a district w/ lower taxes, your rent will be lower. The percentage of people, period, who rent in the area is very small.

The thing is that they are pushing binding arbitration which could result in increased taxes for the residents of the school district. If they're not residents, they don't really give a rat's rump if taxes go sky high.

[WCUgirl]

I just wanted to interject a quick comment re teacher unions. I think everyone is over-estimating their power.

In the county where both of my parents were teachers, the teacher's union was little more than a company union. It didn't really do much for the teachers, if anything at all. I know several teachers who were terminated even though they were part of the teacher's union.

Sure, it's probably not like that everywhere, but it just surprises me to hear about teacher's unions having such "power." (of course, it's also surprising to hear about teaching salaries higher than $50,000.)

Also, how can these teachers strike? I thought it was illegal for teachers to strike.

[CarolinaCutie]

Originally posted by Rudey
What are the skills since I underestimate them?

And since someone didn't tell you, do you actually have proof that your state is understaffed on teachers and is hiring incredibly untrained ones? Or is this just hearsay? And how does it compare with other fields? Perhaps law firms are hiring untrained lawyers.

-Rudey

Finding random statistics on the Internet is not my strong point. But I will direct you to this website, about North Carolina education, which specifically states:

"Our state is experiencing an unprecedented demand for additional public-school teachers. In fact, over the next ten years North Carolina public schools will need over 100,000 new teachers. This year alone, we expect to hire more than 12,500 teachers."

and

"While traditional teaching programs of colleges and universities in and beyond our state continue to help fill many new positions, these institutions cannot completely satisfy our urgent and growing demand for new teaching professionals. As a result, we need to look beyond the traditional sources."

Teach4NC


So make of that what you will. I personally know several people who have procured teaching positions recently through the lateral entry program as well.

I did not state that these untrained teachers were village idiots, as they do have collegiate degrees. But teaching methodology is not something that is innate... it requires training and practice, which these alternatively-liscensed teachers will not have until AFTER they have already been placed in the classroom. Unless you can demonstrate that law firms are hiring lawyers who did not go to law school, then it's obviously not the same.

Edited to add: Regarding the salary discussion in this thread, this website, which is a part of the NC Department of Public Instruction, states that the beginning salary for a first-year teacher with a bachelor's degree is $25, 420. After 30 years of experience, this amount increases to $45,680, or $51,160 if the teacher becomes National Board certified. Additionally, it is $27,970 for first-year teachers with master's degrees, $50,250 for 30+ experience, and $56,280 for NB certified.

[WCUgirl]

Sorry to double-post, but here is the link for NC Teach, if anyone is interested.

NC Teach