Stereotyping HBCU's

[AKA_Monet]

Coming from an HBCU-attendee family, where my grandfather graduated from Knoxville and became the president of Bethune-Cookman, my parents graduated Fisk, my father graduated Meharry, several cousins graduated FAMU, my in laws graduated from Morehouse and Morris Brown; and I graduated from Spelman, that maybe I actually do know a thing or 2 about collegiate and university funding and education.

It takes a lot to educate people. There are several societal reasons for that, such as slaves not being allowed to read, why? The key to Spelman's education was to teach former children of slaves how to read the Bible and write their families in the North. It is my understanding that Spelman had a "paper bag" test as to who had lighter-skinned features than other darker-skinned individuals. In fact there are reasons why Spelman is named Spelman rather than Rockafeller, since he funded the school.

So, when we think what it takes to fund HBCU's outside of the UNCF, then it has been extremely tough. Yet, we still educated some the most prolific people in history:

Dr. Martin Luther King and the entire King Family
Thurgood Marshall
Mae Jemison - spent some time at an HBCU, 1st Black Female Astronaut
7 affliates of the D9 whose founders attended these schools

So when one belittles and stereotypes an HBCU and does not attempt improvement backed up with money has very little respect in my eyes.

And yes, my husband and I donate large sums to our respective HBCU's...

[ladygreek]

^^^^The best decision my daughter and I made was to send her to an HBCU. When she came home for Christmas break her first year, the change in her was dramatic. She was more self-confident and full of energy for her future after just a few months.

Don't get me wrong--she was a HNIC her PW high school here in MN., but going to Howard and finding out that everyone there were HNICs humbled her and boosted her at the same time.

There is something to be said about walking the halls of a school and seeing historical pictures of accomplished Blacks on the wall, and to walk into a classroom and your prof looks like you. Not to mention the scores of Black students all striving to achieve greatness.

After growing up in Minnesota it was exactly what she needed. It also changed the mind of my mother who would not let me go to a HBCU, because she thought they were inferior.

*sidenote* My step grandmother told me the story of not being accepted to Howard, because she did not pass the brown paper bag test.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

When she came home for Christmas break her first year, the change in her was dramatic.

When my mom came down to surprise me at Thanksgiving, she told me how much I'd changed, too. I was, not ghetto....GHET. TO. Two words.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

^^^^The best decision my daughter and I made was to send her to an HBCU. When she came home for Christmas break her first year, the change in her was dramatic. She was more self-confident and full of energy for her future after just a few months.

There is something to be said about walking the halls of a school and seeing historical pictures of accomplished Blacks on the wall, and to walk into a classroom and your prof looks like you. Not to mention the scores of Black students all striving to achieve greatness.

Well, if you have EVA gotten caught by one of your professors after skipping his or her class...

Really, it doesn't suprise me. I am glad you and your daughter were happy with the outcome. It is good to hear such things.

After growing up in Minnesota it was exactly what she needed. It also changed the mind of my mother who would not let me go to a HBCU, because she thought they were inferior.

*sidenote* My step grandmother told me the story of not being accepted to Howard, because she did not pass the brown paper bag test.

How come your mother thought these schools were inferior? Just asking. I really like to know what goes through people's mind when they say such things...

In fact my aunt and uncle were like that, but when my mom came to live with them, she stayed 2 years at a Junior College, then they sent her down to Fisk, where she inevitably pledged the Pi chapter, and met and married my dad...

And I did hear of Paper bag tests at Fisk, Spelman and Howard... It all changed in the late 60's, early 70's.

[WenD08]

it's so sad that so many Blacks felt/feel that way about HBCUs. my mother wanted so badly to go to Howard but her father was completely against it. as a result, she supported my brother (a FAMU alum) and i as we applied only to HBCUs. in a way, she got to live through us and went every year to parents' weekend.
if people would only do their research and see that our schools prepare us for life just as PWIs. we need to stop downing what is ours, it's really hurting us

[DSTCHAOS]

My parents, brother, and aunts and uncles went to HBCUs.

That doesn't make me feel passionate about HBCUs or lead me to overlook the changes in the caliber of administration and students that even alum from some HBCUs criticize.

If I have a child who wants to attend one, I'd have to see what the particular school is about just as I would for PWIs. It will definitely have to offer more than just being an HBCU, which is enough for some people. I feel that HBCUs have a lot to offer but some of them need to tighten up the academic experience as much as they tighten up their cultural/social experience. If that doesn't apply to any of your HBCUs, don't attach the comment to your ass.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

It is my understanding that Spelman had a "paper bag" test as to who had lighter-skinned features than other darker-skinned individuals. In fact there are reasons why Spelman is named Spelman rather than Rockafeller, since he funded the school.

Where did you "hear" that Spelman did the "paper bag" test? Based on early photographers of the first graduating class (before it was even "Spelman") there were women of all hues represented (you should be familiar with the picture I am speaking of) I have also seen other pictures from the late 1800s until now and there certainly is not evidence that this was the case. AS a matter of fact, the first African students arived at Spelman in before the turn of the century. Most sub Saharan African would not be able to pass a paper bag test

And what is the reason that Spelman was named Spelman versus Rockefeller? It seems that you tie this to the 'paper bag' test. I am only aware of his desiire to honor his wife and her family after he saw that Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles would "stick" with their mission to educate newly freed slaves in the south. If you have more information, please share!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Where did you "hear" that Spelman did the "paper bag" test? Based on early photographers of the first graduating class (before it was even "Spelman") there were women of all hues represented (you should be familiar with the picture I am speaking of) I have also seen other pictures from the late 1800s until now and there certainly is not evidence that this was the case. AS a matter of fact, the first African students arived at Spelman in before the turn of the century. Most sub Saharan African would not be able to pass a paper bag test

And what is the reason that Spelman was named Spelman versus Rockefeller? It seems that you tie this to the 'paper bag' test. I am only aware of his desiire to honor his wife and her family after he saw that Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles would "stick" with their mission to educate newly freed slaves in the south. If you have more information, please share!

I don't know if there was or wasn't one, but to put it in perspective:

Early photos of the "black elite" and of some sororities showed that there were darker hued people as members. But the proportion of darker hued to lighter hued is what the accusation of colorism and intraracial discrimination is based on. So a paper bag test (either literal or figurative) doesn't prevent some darker hued people from getting in and even being photographed.

[Animate]

Interesting. I was having a similar conversation with a friend of mine the other day and lets just say she made me want to punch a whole in the wall. Other than the fact that she couldn't stick to one thing and was jumping all over the place (extremely frustrating), she never had a solid point. She was essentially expecting HBCUs to do things that PWI do with, say a million dollar budget, with one hundred thousand dollars.

[Phrozen1ne]

Well I believe the stereotyping also comes into play when there becomes a pattern of HBCU's not being on their job ( financial aid packets, housing, etc.) I say this do to my experience and those of friends and family members. I started off at a PWI because my mother wasn't trying to send to an HBCU although HBCU's were my first choice. She stated that the world isn't made of just African Americans and that I needed to go to a school that had a diverse student body and that provide "better opportunities ". So I started off at a PWI and eventually got my mom let transfer to a HBCU.

I applied to FAMU and got accepted ( after repeating checking with school when huge amounts of time had passed), got my room assignment, plane ticket to Tallahassee..... A week before I was set to leave something told me to just double check everything and when I called the Financial Aid office I found out that my financial aid have been jacked up and they weren't cooperative with trying to assist me. The funny thing is I have frat that this has happen to also and he had to transfer schools. I ended up back at a PWI (Southern Illinois University in Carbondale after my mom went off on FAMU Chicago style "westside") and obtained my degree there. After that ordeal, during my second semester at SIUC I received a call from FAMU saying they had straighten out my finanical aid and it was a mistake on their part. They stated that if I still wanted to attend the their university I would be able to and I am thinking.

My point is that I have been on both sides of the fence and I would entertain the opportunity to do my grad program at an HBCU, but as stated in previous post all HBCU's aren't the best, just as all PWI's aren't either. I just dislike seeing HBCU's not on top of their game in every way possible. These schools should mean alot to our community, but they sometimes get tarnished by negative things or people involved at the institution (Morris Brown). As a result parents don't want to send their child and hard earned money to an institution that isn't going to provide the basics.

Now before anyone says these things happen at PWI's too; that may be true, but I can say from my experience it doesn't occur as often. When it does occur it is usually taken care of in a timely manner. Investing in HBCU's is a great start, but there is a need for checks and balances with regard to the people who run the institutions. With all that being said, I still want to pursue grad studies at a HBCU. Not going to let one bad experience change my view!!

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

My parents, brother, and aunts and uncles went to HBCUs.

That doesn't make me feel passionate about HBCUs or lead me to overlook the changes in the caliber of administration and students that even alum from some HBCUs criticize.

If I have a child who wants to attend one, I'd have to see what the particular school is about just as I would for PWIs. It will definitely have to offer more than just being an HBCU, which is enough for some people. I feel that HBCUs have a lot to offer but some of them need to tighten up the academic experience as much as they tighten up their cultural/social experience. If that doesn't apply to any of your HBCUs, don't attach the comment to your ass.

I agree totally, which is why we did serious research before we settled on Howard and a few others. After visiting HU, my daught decided only to apply there (which caused me a few stressful moments, I mean only applying to one school.) LOL

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

Where did you "hear" that Spelman did the "paper bag" test? Based on early photographers of the first graduating class (before it was even "Spelman") there were women of all hues represented (you should be familiar with the picture I am speaking of) I have also seen other pictures from the late 1800s until now and there certainly is not evidence that this was the case. AS a matter of fact, the first African students arived at Spelman in before the turn of the century. Most sub Saharan African would not be able to pass a paper bag test

And what is the reason that Spelman was named Spelman versus Rockefeller? It seems that you tie this to the 'paper bag' test. I am only aware of his desiire to honor his wife and her family after he saw that Sophia Packard and Harriet Giles would "stick" with their mission to educate newly freed slaves in the south. If you have more information, please share!

I only "heard" of this activity, I did not say it was true. It was a well known fact that Spelman requested "pictures" on their applicants, because I had to submit one in 1986 Whether that made a different of my acceptance to the school or not, I will never know. Or the fact that I was admitted to UC Berkeley and chose not to attend because I wanted to attend Spelman, who knows?

The Spelman name... Well, let's just say I had Ms. Gebre-Hewitt for English... And she gave us this assignment to determine why Spelman College was named that way. And if you wanted a grade above an F-, you would be one to figure out E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what it was with references. So, somehow, I actually managed to get into Club Woodruff's Special Collections... And I found some books and programmes stating the reason:

Spelman was named as such for Laura Spelman Rockafeller, John D. Rockafeller's wife. John D. Rockafeller provided financial to Harriett Giles and Sofia B. Packard to educate former slaves and children of slaves how to read the Bible and write to their families in the North.

But why honor his wife? My findings in Special Collections:

John D. Rockafeller and his wife, chose to have her family's name, because the Spelman's provided a safehouse for the underground railroad before and during the Civil War.

Yeah, I could have written the paragraph better , and, what would be my reasons to be an idiot about what I know regarding Spelman College and most HBCU's giving my history here on GC?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I only "heard" of this activity, I did not say it was true. It was a well known fact that Spelman requested "pictures" on their applicants, because I had to submit one in 1986 Whether that made a different of my acceptance to the school or not, I will never know. Or the fact that I was admitted to UC Berkeley and chose not to attend because I wanted to attend Spelman, who knows?

The Spelman name... Well, let's just say I had Ms. Gebre-Hewitt for English... And she gave us this assignment to determine why Spelman College was named that way. And if you wanted a grade above an F-, you would be one to figure out E-X-A-C-T-L-Y what it was with references. So, somehow, I actually managed to get into Club Woodruff's Special Collections... And I found some books and programmes stating the reason:



But why honor his wife? My findings in Special Collections:



Yeah, I could have written the paragraph better , and, what would be my reasons to be an idiot about what I know regarding Spelman College and most HBCU's giving my history here on GC?

I hear ya. Also the brown paper bag test came into play if your family was not already of a certain "pedigree." That would explain the different hues.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Phrozen1ne

I ended up back at a PWI (Southern Illinois University in Carbondale after my mom went off on FAMU Chicago style "westside") and obtained my degree there.

Go Salukis! I am a charter member of the Delta chapter there. Interesting fact. When I attended SIUC, there were over 3,000 Black students there. We functioned like a mini-HBCU within a major PWI. They were kind of scared of us. LOL

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Phrozen1ne

My point is that I have been on both sides of the fence and I would entertain the opportunity to do my grad program at an HBCU, but as stated in previous post all HBCU's aren't the best, just as all PWI's aren't either. I just dislike seeing HBCU's not on top of their game in every way possible. These schools should mean alot to our community, but they sometimes get tarnished by negative things or people involved at the institution (Morris Brown). As a result parents don't want to send their child and hard earned money to an institution that isn't going to provide the basics.

I agree with your statements. I will not excuse Spelman admin for what it did to me personally, but there is a time to let it go and forgive. Reality, most people that work there, have ONLY lived in that area for their entire life and that is the only world they really understand. At PWI's, most of their admin workforce comes from all over the world, literally. So the top down business design is totally different than HBCU's. Because, a HBCU is not getting a whole bunch of well-too-do students, with well-to-do parents--maybe the occassional celebrity or their children... Really, what celebrity has sent their child to Jarvis Christian, Florida Memorial, or Clafin? Really?

Whereas, most PWI's have STRONG student, parental and alumni support... STRONG just for the football games alone--totally SEC vs. ACC in 2007-2008. The Bayou Classic barely broke even--from what I "heard"

Now before anyone says these things happen at PWI's too; that may be true, but I can say from my experience it doesn't occur as often. When it does occur it is usually taken care of in a timely manner. Investing in HBCU's is a great start, but there is a need for checks and balances with regard to the people who run the institutions. With all that being said, I still want to pursue grad studies at a HBCU. Not going to let one bad experience change my view!!

I only have several friends that suffered the financial aid drama, but most folks who "master" the art of "finagling 101" at these schools, feel empowered by it. Finagling101 is not fun while one suffers, but this is how HBCU's--literally formed after Emancipation think is the BEST education for BLACK PEOPLE.

I did learn what kind of education I could garner from Spelman even though there was a complete lack of resources.