Dating/marrying outside your religion

[Rudey]

A messianic Jew is a Christian. If they think they qualify as both, they are wrong and confused, much like a transvestite or 12 year old boy who can't decide if he might be gay.

While we do enjoy the effort made by Christian Evangelicals and Baptists to fund this "movement" to convert Jews, you are beyond mistaken if you think a Born Again Christian is a "Completed Jew".

-Rudey

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by honeychile
Ah, but you didn't grow up with a much older brother becoming a pastor and having you memorized large passages of the Bible in both English & Hebrew! Trust me, it's a mixed blessing!

No, but her boyfriend did have a father that was, you know, a pastor in a pretty strict denomination (typo: "demonization," LOL), so I imagine that it might be a little similar.


Honestly, being willing to date someone outside of your religion has NOTHING to do with the "intensity" you feel for your religion. GP is far more intense about her religion than anybody else I know. What it does have to do with is your tolerance for viewpoints other than your own. A Christian fundie would never date me, but I've dated Christians before, some of them who were pretty intense about their faith -- they just had a far different interpretation of it than any fundamentalist would.


For the record, considering that I belong to no particular domination of any church and there are maybe three people on earth who hold the same viewpoints as I do . . . I damn well better be willing to date outside of my faith.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
No, but her boyfriend did have a father that was, you know, a pastor in a pretty strict denomination (typo: "demonization," LOL), so I imagine that it might be a little similar.


Honestly, being willing to date someone outside of your religion has NOTHING to do with the "intensity" you feel for your religion. GP is far more intense about her religion than anybody else I know. What it does have to do with is your tolerance for viewpoints other than your own. A Christian fundie would never date me, but I've dated Christians before, some of them who were pretty intense about their faith -- they just had a far different interpretation of it than any fundamentalist would.


For the record, considering that I belong to no particular domination of any church and there are maybe three people on earth who hold the same viewpoints as I do . . . I damn well better be willing to date outside of my faith.

LOL, I may be the most intense religious persons you know, but I'm one of the least in my circle of friends. Of course, where I go to school now has a lot to do with that.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
LOL, I may be the most intense religious persons you know, but I'm one of the least in my circle of friends. Of course, where I go to school now has a lot to do with that.

All of the guys I've dated are now atheist or agnostic.

Not all of them were when I was dating them . . . haha. I think I was an influence . . .

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
While we do enjoy the effort made by Christian Evangelicals and Baptists to fund this "movement" to convert Jews, you are beyond mistaken if you think a Born Again Christian is a "Completed Jew".

-Rudey

I gotta say I think it's insulting to imply that non-"messianic Jews" are some how in complete...

[Rudey]

Originally posted by RACooper
I gotta say I think it's insulting to imply that non-"messianic Jews" are some how in complete...

The funding for these groups comes from Baptists, Pentecostals and independent bible churches. Jews for Jesus was started by a Baptist minister and is classified as a cult by many. http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000509.html

The Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and the Russian Pogroms weren't enough to kill the Jews so American Christians have invented this new program called Jews for Jesus to carry out the Silent Holocaust. So now these groups have singled out the American Jewish population which accounts for lesst than 2% of the total.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

-Rudey

[RACooper]

Originally posted by Rudey
The funding for these groups comes from Baptists, Pentecostals and independent bible churches. Jews for Jesus was started by a Baptist minister and is classified as a cult by many. http://www.cultnews.com/archives/000509.html

Hmmmm.... I've seen (and been approached) those nutbags around campus at the beginning of each year - figures that they are funded by yet another Baptist splinter/fringe group

The Holocaust, Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, and the Russian Pogroms weren't enough to kill the Jews so American Christians have invented this new program called Jews for Jesus to carry out the Silent Holocaust. So now these groups have singled out the American Jewish population which accounts for lesst than 2% of the total.

http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/

-Rudey

These are the people that give "Christians" a bad name - those that feel they must convert people to their particular belief system... a prime example of the "fundie" I'd never consider dating.

[honeychile]

Where to start (remembering, of course, the phrase "Pearls before swine...", that many of you won't bother to really read this before you start your Whine-O-Meters)...

Growing up fulling indoctrinated and then making a decision off on my own is different than my Significant Other doing so. The correlation to that would be my understanding what a heart transplant feels like because my SO had one. I can't fully understand.

You say "tolerance", I say "intensity". To go a step further, if I believe with all my heart, soul, and being that (insert your favorite fundie myth here) is right, how could I willingly go to a church with and possibly marry, someone who doesn't believe in that? I guarantee that I'm more tolerant than you, as I would never stoop to search for chances to make nasty remarks about someone on the internet. Tolerating means accepting people for what they are, not snarking at their every move.

RACooper and Rudey, yes, I know quite a few people of Jewish ancestory who believe in Jesus Christ. I have not "witnessed" to any of them; I do not know the path which they took to Christianity, for the most part. I used the terms which they use. If that offends you, I can supply some names & addresses, and you can take it up with them. They'll be positively thrilled to hear you judge their religiosity!

MTSUGirl, I understand that church is not a Sunday morning (evening) experience with you, and your need to only date someone who shares that lifestyle. An example would be a future missionary who tries to date someone who can barely stay awake through the Sunday service - it's not going to work.

Back to tolerance: I've seen the phrases: "fundie", "nutbag", "fanatics", "bible thumpers", and probably more derogatory remarks about believing Christians in this thread, and this message board in general - yet there's only the one battle between two men which has abused any other religion. I don't see this as being the much vaunted "toleration" worshipped by so many.

[Rudey]

Congratulate their weak minded selves on being Christians. They are not Jewish, you shouldn't perpetuate that myth, and they can now join the likes of those that believe evolution is a myth.

-Rudey
--If any of your "significant others" were of such ilk, do not claim they were Jewish either.

Originally posted by honeychile
Where to start (remembering, of course, the phrase "Pearls before swine...", that many of you won't bother to really read this before you start your Whine-O-Meters)...

Growing up fulling indoctrinated and then making a decision off on my own is different than my Significant Other doing so. The correlation to that would be my understanding what a heart transplant feels like because my SO had one. I can't fully understand.

You say "tolerance", I say "intensity". To go a step further, if I believe with all my heart, soul, and being that (insert your favorite fundie myth here) is right, how could I willingly go to a church with and possibly marry, someone who doesn't believe in that? I guarantee that I'm more tolerant than you, as I would never stoop to search for chances to make nasty remarks about someone on the internet. Tolerating means accepting people for what they are, not snarking at their every move.

RACooper and Rudey, yes, I know quite a few people of Jewish ancestory who believe in Jesus Christ. I have not "witnessed" to any of them; I do not know the path which they took to Christianity, for the most part. I used the terms which they use. If that offends you, I can supply some names & addresses, and you can take it up with them. They'll be positively thrilled to hear you judge their religiosity!

MTSUGirl, I understand that church is not a Sunday morning (evening) experience with you, and your need to only date someone who shares that lifestyle. An example would be a future missionary who tries to date someone who can barely stay awake through the Sunday service - it's not going to work.

Back to tolerance: I've seen the phrases: "fundie", "nutbag", "fanatics", "bible thumpers", and probably more derogatory remarks about believing Christians in this thread, and this message board in general - yet there's only the one battle between two men which has abused any other religion. I don't see this as being the much vaunted "toleration" worshipped by so many.

[MTSUGURL]

Originally posted by valkyrie
I don't know if it's intentional, but your post reeks of a smugness that implies that if somebody goes to services of her own denomination as well as those of her significant other, religion is just a "Sunday morning thing" for her.

My point was that as involved as I am, and the fact that I am looking for someone that is also very involved, it would not be desirable or feasible to go to different churches.
Any perceived smugness was not intentional. I apologize for seeming otherwise. I have tried to explain my reasoning, without any of the implications that have been found in my posts. I was not trying to be judgemental, and am sorry if that is how it has come across.

GP - You said your mind was boggled, I tried to explain. I am sorry if I have offended you - it was not my purpose. There have been many posts that have been directed at Christians that have been offensive, but I've never resulted to name calling or getting defensive (until now - even I consider this post somewhat defensive).

[honeychile]

Originally posted by Rudey
Congratulate their weak minded selves on being Christians. They are not Jewish, you shouldn't perpetuate that myth, and they can now join the likes of those that believe evolution is a myth.

-Rudey
--If any of your "significant others" were of such ilk, do not claim they were Jewish either.

Don't worry about my significant others. The Jewish men I dated were/are (to my knowledge) Jewish in every way.

I do have a question, though: Is it true that, if a Jewish woman has a child, that child is considered Jewish, while a Jewish man can father a child to a non-Jewish woman and that child isn't considered Jewish? My cousins' father was Jewish, and their mother was told that she needed to convert to raise the children Jewish. I'm fairly certain that they were Conservative.

[aephi alum]

In the Conservative and Orthodox movements, that is true. The child is considered to be of the same religion as the mother.

In Reform Judaism, that is not true. If the father is Jewish and the mother is not, and the child is raised in the Jewish faith, the child is considered to be Jewish.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by aephi alum
In the Conservative and Orthodox movements, that is true. The child is considered to be of the same religion as the mother.

In Reform Judaism, that is not true. If the father is Jewish and the mother is not, and the child is raised in the Jewish faith, the child is considered to be Jewish.

Thank you for the kind answer. My mother remembers her aunt going through a ceremony, with a special bath and getting her hair cut (? She's not sure about that - she was about 4!), so that she could convert.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by honeychile
Thank you for the kind answer. My mother remembers her aunt going through a ceremony, with a special bath and getting her hair cut (? She's not sure about that - she was about 4!), so that she could convert.

The conversion process involves several steps. I'll share some of my conversion story.

First and foremost, you must study, and work with a rabbi for a period of time, generally at least a year. I studied with a rabbi for a total of about 18 months, including a formal Intro to Judaism course and some private study.

You must go before a bet din, which is a rabbinic court consisting of 3 rabbis. The rabbi with whom I studied was on the court. They question you, mainly on why you want to become Jewish. In the Reform movement, once the bet din gives the green light, you are officially Jewish.

You should go to the mikveh, which is a ritual bath. If you are converting into the Orthodox or Conservative movement, this is required; if you are converting into the Reform movement, it's optional. You go into a pool of warm water, naked, and immerse yourself completely, and say a blessing. For an Orthodox or Conservative conversion, this is the point where you officially are Jewish.

And lastly, your synagogue may have a conversion ceremony as a formal welcome to the Jewish community.

There is no requirement that you have your hair cut.

Side note: Going to the mikveh, in February, in Boston, is an excellent way to catch a cold.

[honeychile]

Thank you - and sorry about the cold!!