Is Gay marriage necessary today or immoral?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
You know there's no need to cop an attitude with me.
I thought we were here to have a discussion...if that's all right with you?

Uhh unless you're mamma lovespell..i don't believe you need to be telling me anything about copping anything. Its getting unecessarily CATTY in here over this topic. I know its a touchy area...but I'll do my best to stay on the topic..

If I personally attacked you, I aplogize....my only intent/purpose is to post on the subject at hand.

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
Actually that is not true. Not all versions of the Bible say that homosexuality is a sin. I know one version that doesn't even say it's an abomination.

I have The New International version and it actually says that homosexuality is disagreeable.

So, My interpretaion of that would be...is that God doesn't like it, but he's not going to love you any less and I certainly don't see it as saying that it's a sin and you will burn in hell for all eternity.

Lady Pi, just so you know, I don't plan to get into a back and forth Bible verse squabble with you over this. So with that said, what verse are you referring to where it says that in The New International version?

In 1 Corinthians 6:9 of The New International Version, it says that

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

~~~~~~~~~~~

This clearly would tell someone who is interested in living the Christian life what would be a sin (sin being an act, though, etc. that seperates you from God). And this from your version.

[DoggyStyle82]

Lady Pi Phi

You must be reading a politically correct version of the bible because I own 7 versions of it and certain passages are pretty specific and synoptic on this subject.

LIBRASOUL

You can't use the Klan as an example of a Christian organization. A simple rule of thumb would be , if it involves hate, it's not Christian, no matter how twisted they try to make things.

[ClassyLady]

This discussion of the Bible would be more applicable if we lived in a country where Christianity was the national, not majority, religion. Since we do not, we cannot the laws of our country to reflect specific Biblical passages. I have yet to hear a cogent argument against same sex marriages that was not based on religious beliefs. And, I have yet to hear reasons why some are so concerned with the sin of others. Should we now say that two thieves or two adulterers should not be legally married?

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by ClassyLady
This discussion of the Bible would be more applicable if we lived in a country where Christianity was the national, not majority, religion. Since we do not, we cannot the laws of our country to reflect specific Biblical passages. I have yet to hear a cogent argument against same sex marriages that was not based on religious beliefs. And, I have yet to hear reasons why some are so concerned with the sin of others. Should we now say that two thieves or two adulterers should not be legally married?

What's cogent to you is based on your opinion. Other non-biblical arguments are cogent to others...its just a difference of opinion. And I must be the only one..but I didn't read anyone's post where they said or gave the impression that they were so "concerned" about the sins of others. It's just a discussion between very opinionated people that disagree.

And no, Christianity is not the national religion..but what you fail to realize is that this nation is comprised of people who make laws...and if these people are "Christian" or align themselves with a certain religion..theya are likely to pass laws etc. based on their moral or christian beliefs...that's what Christans do. They don't just preach and receive the word in church..they're supposed to carry it out in their daily lives...

Why don't we make the federal CHRISTmas holiday a Winter holiday to go with all the other secularist beliefs today.

[ClassyLady]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
And no, Christianity is not the national religion..but what you fail to realize is that this nation is comprised of people who make laws...and if these people are "Christian" or align themselves with a certain religion..theya are likely to pass laws etc. based on their moral or christian beliefs...that's what Christans do. They don't just preach and receive the word in church..they're supposed to carry it out in their daily lives...

No, I clearly realize that fact and that is where my problem is. In this country, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. I don't want lawmakers relying on their own personal religious beliefs because there is no gaurantee that those beliefs will align with mine. If the majority religion changes from Christianity, I want to be confident that the laws that govern my day to day life will not be based on someone else's religion. I don't want someone to have the power to interfere with what I personally believe is correct. I am not going to start covering my face or walking behind a man if the majority religion in this country changes to Islam or Mouse Worship, for that matter.

Instead of trying to carry out the Word of God through laws, it would be much more effective to try to prevent the sins before they happen through one on one education. When you fight someone about something they want to do, it normally only makes that person want to do it even more.

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by DoggyStyle82
You can't use the Klan as an example of a Christian organization. A simple rule of thumb would be , if it involves hate, it's not Christian, no matter how twisted they try to make things.

Okay...I will work with your definition. I am seeing many people here who hate homosexuals...unChristian?

lovespell and axe...are y'all able to distinguish between IMMORAL and ILLEGAL?

You continue to cite the Bible verses when it is a SECULAR issue by nature (government, as ClassyLady said, is SUPPOSED to be totally separate from the state).

ETA: Let me pose this question: How would you all treat a family member who was gay and wanted to marry their partner whom they loved very much?

[sasharala]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Why don't we make the federal CHRISTmas holiday a Winter holiday to go with all the other secularist beliefs today.

Actually, Christmas was/is a secular holiday. The idea of Christmas came from the Germans/Pagans (depending on your history book) and had nothing to do with the christian religion...just with gift giving. It is thought that Christmas actually predates the birth of Christ.

Just something to think about....

[Honeykiss1974]

Hating is an unchristian-like behavior. Disagreeing with a lifestyle does not automatically equate to hate of that person.

[Love_Spell_6]

As I predicted...the gay ruling will bring Out even more perverts... Next someone will want to marry their pet....or excuse me Canine American!!!...just watch!
**************************************************
Utah Polygamist Invokes Ruling on Gay Sex

By MARK THIESSEN
Associated Press Writer

December 2, 2003, 2:57 AM EST


SALT LAKE CITY -- A lawyer for a Utah man with five wives argued Monday that his bigamy convictions should be thrown out following a Supreme Court decision decriminalizing gay sex.

The nation's high court in June struck down a Texas sodomy law, ruling that what gay men and women do in the privacy of their homes is no business of government.

It's no different for polygamists, argued Tom Green's attorney, John Bucher, to the Utah Supreme Court.

"It doesn't bother anyone, (and with) no compelling state interest in what you do in your own home with consenting adults, you should be allowed to do so," Bucher said.

The state said the court should reject the appeal because Green failed to raise the issue during his trial more than two years ago or anywhere else along the judicial path since then.

Green, who is not affiliated with any church, was convicted of four counts of bigamy and one count of criminal nonsupport of his 30 children in August 2001.

Besides his five-year sentence, he faces up to life in prison after being convicted of child rape for having sex with one of his five wives when she was 13.

"He preys on young girls," assistant Utah Attorney General Laura Dupaix said. "This case is about a man who marries young girls and calls it religion."

Polygamy was renounced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890 as part of a deal to grant Utah statehood, and the church now excommunicates those members who practice or advocate it. Polygamy has an estimated 30,000 practitioners in the West.

[Dionysus]

Why do you keep on linking gay marriage to beastiality and other forms of perversion?

This is not proof, this is only ONE case.

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
As I predicted...the gay ruling will bring Out even more perverts... Next someone will want to marry their pet....or excuse me Canine American!!!...just watch!
**************************************************
Utah Polygamist Invokes Ruling on Gay Sex

By MARK THIESSEN
Associated Press Writer

December 2, 2003, 2:57 AM EST


SALT LAKE CITY -- A lawyer for a Utah man with five wives argued Monday that his bigamy convictions should be thrown out following a Supreme Court decision decriminalizing gay sex.

The nation's high court in June struck down a Texas sodomy law, ruling that what gay men and women do in the privacy of their homes is no business of government.

It's no different for polygamists, argued Tom Green's attorney, John Bucher, to the Utah Supreme Court.

"It doesn't bother anyone, (and with) no compelling state interest in what you do in your own home with consenting adults, you should be allowed to do so," Bucher said.

The state said the court should reject the appeal because Green failed to raise the issue during his trial more than two years ago or anywhere else along the judicial path since then.

Green, who is not affiliated with any church, was convicted of four counts of bigamy and one count of criminal nonsupport of his 30 children in August 2001.

Besides his five-year sentence, he faces up to life in prison after being convicted of child rape for having sex with one of his five wives when she was 13.

"He preys on young girls," assistant Utah Attorney General Laura Dupaix said. "This case is about a man who marries young girls and calls it religion."

Polygamy was renounced by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1890 as part of a deal to grant Utah statehood, and the church now excommunicates those members who practice or advocate it. Polygamy has an estimated 30,000 practitioners in the West.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Dionysus
Why do you keep on linking gay marriage to beastiality and other forms of perversion?

This is not proof, this is only ONE case.

For now its one case...but I'm pretty sure there will be more....Either I'm psychic or I made a pretty good prediction. IMO this court ruling will bring people out of the woodworks trying to form a marital union. I will agree to disagree...but only time will tell..

[Honeykiss1974]

To Dionysis
Polygamy is a form of pervsion? On what basis? What makes it different?
(not that I agree with it, but for discussion purposes)

To All:
I agree with Love_Spell on this and brought up the polygamy situation pages ago. If people are going to try and redefine marriage, then you will HAVE to recognize other facets of it as well.

Just as there are those that say its not fair for the US to maintain a religious viewpoint as to what constitiutes a marriage, there will be others that say its not fair that for a marriage to only consist of two people.

Hey, maybe my idea to for the federal gov't to eliminate the "married" classification as it relates to the "single" classification will happen afterall.

[librasoul22]

Lovespell...goodness...one cannot begin to explain the many fallacies in your arguments because you automatically become too defensive to acknowledge them. I guess you will just forever remain closeminded, and unapologetically so.


(And I don't mean closeminded to homosexuality, I mean closeminded to any ideas/beliefs other than your own).

ETA: No one answered my question about one of their family members being gay...does anyone have any responses?

EAgainTA: I find it quite hypocritical for someone to say GOD IS THE ONE TRUE JUDGE, ONLY GOD CAN JUDGE US, yet in EVERY OTHER BREATH, one is judging a person/culture/lifestyle.

[librasoul22]

And if I may, I think that Dionysus was referring to the dramatic exclamation:

"As I predicted...the gay ruling will bring Out even more perverts... Next someone will want to marry their pet....or excuse me Canine American!!!...just watch!"

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
To Dionysis
Polygamy is a form of pervsion? On what basis? What makes it different?
(not that I agree with it, but for discussion purposes)

To All:
I agree with Love_Spell on this and brought up the polygamy situation pages ago. If people are going to try and redefine marriage, then you will HAVE to recognize other facets of it as well.

Just as there are those that say its not fair for the US to maintain a religious viewpoint as to what constitiutes a marriage, there will be others that say its not fair that for a marriage to only consist of two people.

Hey, maybe my idea to for the federal gov't to eliminate the "married" classification as it relates to the "single" classification will happen afterall.