Religion question...

[chitownxo]

AXO Alum - I'm glad I was able to answer some of your questions. Theology always was my favorite subject. In fact, I'm looking into going to graduate school and pursuing a masters in theology. I don't want to preach (I so do not have the talent for that!), but I'd like to teach comparative religions at the college level.

I understand what you mean about the Mary thing. When my brother got married, he and his wife had a traditional Catholic ceremony. During the ceremony, there's a part where Kathy (my sister-in-law) went up to Mary's alter, lit a candle, said a prayer, and then re-joined my brother. It was hard to explain to the non-Catholics in the congregation about that one. It did look like she was taking a break from all the standing she had to do.

[aephi alum]

Quite right that Mary isn't worshipped; rather, as I understand it, she is honored as a mother, and specifically as Jesus' mother.

As I recall from my Catholic education, they consider that there is a special place in heaven for the unbaptized who never had a chance to learn about Christianity. This would include children who died before being baptized, people who lived in remote locations where Christianity had not been introduced, etc.

The "official" Jewish teaching is that we are the chosen people... but many Jews (myself included) believe that the Jewish people are not so much the chosen people, as a chosen people. Different people are chosen to serve and worship God, or gods, or a supreme being, or whatever, in different ways.

As for confession... even growing up Catholic, I never understood the whole "confess to a priest" thing. I went to confession weekly for several years after my first confession, mainly because my dad did. My mother almost never went to confession; she was raised Anglican, and in the Anglican Church you pray directly to God for forgiveness. That stuck with me. In Judaism, you also pray directly to God, not just on Yom Kippur but year-round... and that's what I do.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Absolutely, Rob. People are usually most upset with the screaming, yelling guy we've all had on our campus telling us we are going to hell for being Greek!

My post was mostly pointed at ZTAMiami and Geeky Penguin who claimed that Catholics do not proselytize. I was pointing out that a teaching of basic Christianty - regardless of denomination - is to do just that. So while the Catholics may not be the type who "shove it down your throat" so to speak, they are indeed supposed to profess their faith to others. (P.S. Ladies - no offense meant, just trying to be accurate )

I agree that you are correct - my personal definition of proselytizing is people ramming it down my throat. I will be more than happy to tell people I am Catholic, and to tell them about my faith if they are curious, but unlike the misbehaved no-home-training Lutheran boy the other night, I would never say "I think you are going to burn in Hell because you aren't Catholic." For the most part, I try to profess my faith through examples, and I never want to force my religion on someone. GPBoy and I had discussed where to get married (Catholic & Methodist) and I think we would have ended up being married in a Catholic church that allows marriage to non-Catholics (some do) or by a justice of the peace.

When I die, I do not want a preachy funeral, and anyone who wants one shouldn't attend. Just because somebody doesn't have the same beliefs as me does not mean my funeral should make them uncomfortable. I want a reading from the lectionary (common between many Christian denominations) and a nice homily. The only thing that will make people of other denominations uncomfortable will be their inability to receive communion in my Church.

[honeychile]

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm going to do a search on this once I post!), but didn't either Newsweek or Time do an article last fall on a major push in the Catholic church for Mary to be considered a "co-redemptress"?

Granted, I have a real problem with all statues (Second Commandment about graven images), but I do feel that Mary was a wonderful, pure Jewish maiden selected by God to be the mother of Jesus - but not a redeemer herself.

[MSKKG]

I'm an Orthodox Christian. In regard to the Sacrament of Confession, here is a paraphrase of what the Church says: God alone forgives sin. Jesus (God the Son) forgave sins and gave His apostles the power to remit or retain sins (cf. John 20:23). In the early Church, the sinner had to confess before the entire congregation! As the Church grew, the practice of privately confessing to the priest developed--he kind of represented the congregation.

Concerning Mary and intercessory prayers, here is a direct quote from The Faith by Clark Carlton (sorry for the length):

"While our Lord was hanging from the Cross, pouring out His life for the salvation of the world, He looked down upon His most pure Mother and the Apostle John and said to the holy Virgin,
"Woman, behold thy son." To John He said, "Behold thy mother" (John 19:26-27). From this time forth, the Virgin maiden who had given birth to God in the flesh was to be the mother of His Disciples. Just as Eve was the "Mother of all the living," so the Virgin is the "Mother of all Christians," the personification of Holy Mother Church. To those who are united to her Son through Holy Baptism, she extends her motherly embrace.

"As our Mother, the All-holy Theotokos intercedes for us before the Throne of Her Son. As our fervent Intercessor and constant Advocate before the Creator, the Virgin never tires and never fails to remember her spiritual children in her prayers. When we are at our lowest ebb and feel as though we have been forsaken by all the world, we may take courage in the fact that our Lady is ever ready to come to us and intercede for us, winning greater strength for all who call upon her Son in faith.

"Since the time of the Protestant Reformation, however, much of Western Christendom has either ignored or rejected outright the intercession of the Mother of God and the Saints for those on earth. In doing so, Protestants have forfeited one of the greatest privileges of being Christians. The Apostle James enjoins us to pray for one another, and in the same verse, explains why: the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much (James 5:16). It is ironic that those who oppose the idea of seeking the intercession of the Saints in heaven have no objections to asking ordinary, sinful Christians to pray for them. But let us consider whose prayers, according to St. James, are more effectual: those Christians still alive on earth struggling with their own sins and problems, or those who have gone on to be with God and are recognized by the Church for their holiness of life?

"The Saints are those who have passed through this life in victorious faith and now behold the face of Christ. United with Him in love, they exist in a state of perfect accord with His holy will. Thus, we may be assured that when they pray for us who are on earth, their supplications are in complete harmony with the purposes of God. No longer capable of being deceived by the wiles of the devil, they form a mighty army, joining their will to the will of God and standing firm with us as we fight the good fight of faith. If God hears the prayers of ordinary Christians embroiled in the trials of life (and He certainly does), then how much more does He heed the intercessions of those who have pleased Him most, whom He has called to be with Himself in heaven.

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32). In Christ, death is no longer the impenetrable barrier which separates us from those who have gone on before us. Indeed, the writer of Hebrews affirms that the Saints in heaven are aware of what is going on in our lives:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).

"The Saints not only cheer us on as we run the race of life, they actively participate in our race as they intercede for us, winning greater strength for all who battle evil. Our All-holy Lady, the Theotokos, stands at the head of this chorus of Saints and remains for us on earth our steadfast Protectress and constant Advocate before the Creator . . . ."

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by chitownxo
Catholics don't allow Protestants to take Communion because it implies a unity that technically isn't there. I was always told that the Protestants in the congregation are to pray that one day the schism will be healed.

This is similar to what I was taught - I was also told that Protestants view the Eucharist (Communion) as a representation of what Jesus did, rather than how Catholics view it as directly receiving Jesus. I know there is a particular word for this, I think consecration - we believe that the host and wine become Jesus and he becomes a part of us, and Protestants do not. That's how I explained to GPBoy's grandmother why I did not take Communion at their church (United Methodist) and she seemed to understand it.

[honeychile]

The word you're looking for is Transfiguration (that the wafer literally becomes the body of Christ). Protestant & Baptist churches don't believe in it; they believe it's a symbolic ritual of faith.

I did the Newsweek search, but am too cheap to buy the article! I'm checking to see if there's another way to get around it!

[Cluey]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I know there is a particular word for this, I think consecration - we believe that the host and wine become Jesus and he becomes a part of us, and Protestants do not.

I think the word you were looking for is transubstantiation.

Transubstantiation is the alleged process whereby the bread and wine offered up at the communion service has its substance changed to that of the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ while its accidents appear to be that of bread and wine.

From The Skeptics Dictionary

[honeychile]

Oops!!! My bad!!

[Tom Earp]

I have gone back and tried to read this total thread!

Wow is mind boggoling!

Catholic in the Dictionary means Universal.

That is why when people talk about the Roman Religion, it is Roman Catholic. At the time the Romans were the Big Guns of the known world.

I am a member of the Anglican Catholic Church but not a Praticioner. I talk to my "God", when I think there is a need.

I have looked into Luthern, Methodist, Pryesbatryian, Babtist, Juedism, etc.

Last I saw, a Supreme Being is always there! Different Names but the same!

Last I saw, the reason for Land Grabbing is Relegion!

The Last I Saw, Look at History, How many Popes were There and What Countrys were There that they were in! What was the Reason for this?

Let me see if any one knows what I am talking about instead of ambugity!

While I cannot remember JAMOM post, It fits to a tee!

If you do not beleive in a Supreme Being, I gaurantee Tee You one thing, when you are about to die, You will be asking for His Help! Been There Seen It!

[Cluey]

Originally posted by honeychile
Oops!!! My bad!!

I didn't even see your post until I came back to see the new posts. No offense meant or taken

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by AXO Alum
2) Do Catholics still believe that the Pope, even as a man, is infallible?

The Roman Catholic Church has never taught that the pope, even as a man, is infallible. What the Church has taught is that when the Pope, by virtue of his office and in collegiality with his brother bishops, speaks or teaches regarding a matter of faith or doctrine, the Holy Spirit will protect him from speaking or teaching erroneously. The reason for this is so that the Church will not be led astray.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by chitownxo
Purgatory is no longer an official teaching of the Catholic church. I have heard that it never was, but I'm not sure which is the correct version. From what I do know, the concept of purgatory came about as an answer to the question, "What if I'm neither good, nor bad where do I go?" Hey, you're going to purgatory...a kind of netherworldish waiting room where you wait for your sins to be forgiven.

It is limbo -- the place for unbaptized children and the righteous who died prior to the coming of Christ -- that is no longer an official teaching. Purgatory -- the place of purification of the soul from the "stain" of venial (minor) sins and and temporal punishment for mortal (major) sins prior to entry into heaven -- is still an official teaching.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by honeychile
Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm going to do a search on this once I post!), but didn't either Newsweek or Time do an article last fall on a major push in the Catholic church for Mary to be considered a "co-redemptress"?

More accurate to say that some in the Catholic Church have advocated this, but the Vatican doesn't seem at all inclined to go along.

Nevertheless, the reasoning (short form) is this: the Epistles describe Jesus as the "new Adam." That is, just as death came through Adam's disobedience, life and redemption came through Christ's obedience. Likewise, just as Adam's disobedience came with Eve's cooperation (she first listened to the serpent and then offered Adam the fruit, making her partly guilty), Christ's obedience came through Mary's cooperation (making her partly responsible.) That is to say, when Gabriel visited Mary with the news that she was going to have a baby, she could have said "No way!" instead of "Be it done to me according to your word." Without her willing cooperation, none of the rest could have happened.

Hope that makes some sense.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by GeekyPenguin
I was also told that Protestants view the Eucharist (Communion) as a representation of what Jesus did, rather than how Catholics view it as directly receiving Jesus. . . . [W]e believe that the host and wine become Jesus and he becomes a part of us, and Protestants do not.

More accurate to say that some Protestants see Communion as a "representation" rather than actually receiving the Body and Blood of Christ. The older Protestant groups -- the Lutherans, Presbyterians and Anglicans -- all teach that the Body and Blood of Christ are received in the Sacrament. They may disagree with each other (and with the Catholic Church) about how this happens, but they do teach that it does happen.

Okay, I'll try to be quiet for a while.