High school hazing on The Early Show

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by AXJules
The thing is, no one has ever complained (at least in the past 8 years). So if they know we're spreading food on each other and everyone does it willingly, how can they threaten to expel or keep you from prom/graduation?????????
There are too many parents that are lawyers to get away with that. It all has to do with the honor code we sign. They can't control what you do thats not on school property.

Is the honor code a school thing or is it among these girls? If it is a school honor code, that cannot prevent students from being held accountable for their bad behavior.

A school can control what occurs off campus. If no one complained about it in the past and the school is unaware, then they can't prevent it. If a school knows that this occurs annually, they have an opportunity and a responsibility to speak out against it. If they were aware, they could have established a policy against hazing.

You mention that the parents are lawyers. Those students should have known better. Schools have a right and a responsibility to establish a policy regarding the conduct of its students both off and on campus. As I mentioned earlier, if a student drinks alcohol or uses drugs on or off campus, the school has a right to suspend or expel that student. This hazing ritual is no different to me.

I don't know this neighborhood or this school. I have gleaned from other posts that this is a rich neighborhood. I went to small private school with some students who have rich parents. If anyone behaved even remotely like this, they would be out. Students were suspended for wearing something outside of the dress code. The school didn't put up with this behavior. I guess that is the difference between private and public schools.

You asked

So if they know we're spreading food on each other and everyone does it willingly, how can they threaten to expel or keep you from prom/graduation?????????

The answer is by establishing rules of conduct. The problem is that by not addressing and condemning the hazing, the school is condoning it. Regardless of whether or not the participants did so willingly, the school ought to have established an anti-hazing policy if they knew about this event. The fear of a parent filing a lawsuit should not stop a school from punishing a student who breaks a rule.

[AXJules]

Originally posted by MoxieGrrl
I wouldn't get up and walk away. I would try my best to get up and kick the living sh*t outta those bitches. End of story. I don't care what was dumped on me. My adrenaline would be going. But I guess another person might not do the same. *shrugs* Everyone is different.

Would you really, if there were about 15 girls AND guys standing above you waiting for you to escape???? No offense but if they are standing there with bats, blood, and who knows what else and you're seeing them KICK people, you are defniitely a stronger person than I am.

[Megerts]

Hmph! Well y'all certainly act like you are the best thing God ever created... but what do I know i'm just an "ignorant southerner" who was raised "without any value for life or the dollar"... and my parents can bail me out of any sitution because they are a lawyer and a big businessman... riiiiiiiight, if I got carted off to jail i'd most likely be there for a long time. My parents wouldn't be bailing me out! I just want y'all to understand... It has NOTHING to do with money... I don't understand why its such a difficult concept to grasp. As AX said... If it happened in a less well to do area would it be such a big deal????? would it be on the today show?? would they be talking to matt lauer?? sadly not...

[AXJules]

Originally posted by Cream
Is the honor code a school thing or is it among these girls? If it is a school honor code, that cannot prevent students from being held accountable for their bad behavior.

A school can control what occurs off campus. If no one complained about it in the past and the school is unaware, then they can't prevent it. If a school knows that this occurs annually, they have an opportunity and a responsibility to speak out against it. If they were aware, they could have established a policy against hazing.

The answer is by establishing rules of conduct. The problem is that by not addressing and condemning the hazing, the school is condoning it. Regardless of whether or not the participants did so willingly, the school ought to have established an anti-hazing policy if they knew about this event. The fear of a parent filing a lawsuit should not stop a school from punishing a student who breaks a rule.

You can't make rules for off campus behavior, besides drugs and alcohol. We have an anti hazing policy for our athletes. This wasn't affiliated with athletics, it was just something peers did to each other. The code of conduct is a school written thing.....but in all the past years if girls say "Hey I want to play powderpuff! And they willingly pay $$ to do it and no one gets upset each year, how are you going to write rules around that???? Legally, they did nothing wrong, thats my point. They're not afraid of pissing off lawyer parents, they know that the school has no jurisdiction among making rules for things people do willingly.

You can't say this has happened every year. It hasn't.

[LXAAlum]

From the Chicago Sun-Times:


From Saskatchewan to suburban London, the story of hazing at a high school in a Chicago suburb has passed into the world's consciousness through TV, radio and print.

CNN and the BBC are on the story, with CNN's Paula Zahn devoting a segment to it Wednesday night. "The O'Reilly Factor" and Oprah want a piece. "Inside Edition" is hunting down guests.

The videotaped beatings of a group of Glenbrook North High School girls at the hands of seniors in a "powderpuff football" game have flashed across cable channels and network newscasts.

The school's semi-secret rite of passage has suddenly become a flashpoint for discussion of teen cruelty.

The video, taken Sunday at the Chipilly Woods near the Northbrook school, shows a group of girls, all juniors, huddled in a circle. They cower against blows from senior girls who endured similar treatment last spring. One or two flee, only to be tracked down and beaten. A bat is swung. A can. Punches are thrown.

All of this happens while a crowd of teens watches from the sidelines.

In the days since, the girls have come forward, some limping, with bruises and broken bones. Details of the hazing tradition--its "rules," the form girls are expected to sign, the understanding that violence is involved--have trickled out.

On Wednesday, the Cook County Forest Preserve police said they will bring charges by the end of the week.

Meanwhile, the world is joining the Chicago area in asking: How could girls from well-heeled suburbs turn into attackers?

And why did the Glenbrook North girls submit themselves to such cruelty, even if they didn't realize powderpuff football could turn so violent?

Principal Mike Riggle said Wednesday he has made it a point to be "open with our stance on this, instead of rejecting interviews. I think that has probably caused us to be more exposed."

Any punishments, he said, would be "possible actions on students through extracurricular activities," such as barring them from sports or club games.

Whether students are punished, Riggle said, damage has been done to the school.

"We were a school that enjoyed a great reputation," he said, "and I think it's been tarnished."

Students feel it, too. "I think it's awful," said senior Jamie Glickstein. "Now, everyone's going to look at our school and think of this."

Participants explained the game along these lines: Enduring such ordeals creates a bond and gives status to those who survive.

"That's the apology given, anyway," said Bernard Beck, a Northwestern University sociologist. "Once you have that, you're given essentially a legitimate justification for being cruel, almost to the point where you're required to be cruel, even if you didn't want to be."

There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern.


There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern. Re-read this. Again. "To feel part of a dominant group." Really? Remember, these seniors that abused the juniors will be GONE in a week. Why bother?

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by AXJules
Would you really, if there were about 15 girls AND guys standing above you waiting for you to escape???? No offense but if they are standing there with bats, blood, and who knows what else and you're seeing them KICK people, you are defniitely a stronger person than I am.

I agree. I don't know what I would have done. These girls are 16 or 17. They arrived thinking that they will have honey and shaving cream poured on them for a few minutes. Suddenly, it escalated into a very violent attack with people kicking, throwing feces and urine, and swinging bats. It must have been really terrifying and physically painful for them. Some of the girls who tried to get away suffered a broken ankle and needed stitches. From what I have seen of the videotape, it looked like there was no way for them to escape without suffering injuries.

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by AXJules
Legally, they did nothing wrong, thats my point.

Beating with a baseball bat is not illegal? Forced consumption of human waste? Plastic bins thrown on people?

[AXJules]

Originally posted by LXAAlum
Beating with a baseball bat is not illegal? Forced consumption of human waste? Plastic bins thrown on people?

You took it out of context. Legally, willingly playing powderpuff all the other years cannot get you kicked out of school. I wrote this in response to people saying they could have made rules earlier. Legally you cannot prohibit someone from playing a "game" willingly.

This year is totally different, its a criminal activity.

[adduncan]

..to keep this Greek-related.

Anytime someone thinks that the NPC, NPHC, and NIC have "gone too far" in their anti-hazing rules need only read some of the responses on this thread to understand WHY such restrictions are necessary today. Even in the 21st century, some teenagers will justify cruelty. Notice the relativistic "it wasn't as bad as....." justification.

Ladies and Gents, if this is the next generation coming into GLOs, the governing bodies will have a lot to deal with for years to come.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

(edited for spelling errors)

[snuggles12]

"There are people willing to endure fear to feel part of a dominant group. "It's a ritualized way to mark a rite of passage," said Bradley Pechter, a psychiatrist at Northwestern. "To feel part of a dominant group." Really? Remember, these seniors that abused the juniors will be GONE in a week. Why bother?"

My sentiments exactly. For those who didn't show up for the violence, who hazes them. The seniors have graduated and I would hope have more important things on their mind than to waste time trying to kick the people's butts who didn't show up.

Do the juniors haze the other juniors who didn't show up?

[AXJules]

No, if you don't show up then the girl that challenged you or whoever kinda tracks you down over the next couple of weeks and things are settled. Sometimes they talk it out, sometiems they fight. In all honesty, I can only think of 4 or 5 girls that didn't show up in the 4 years I was there.

You forget that when you graduate you don't leave for school the next day. You're there all summer, hanging out with the same people, attending all the huge parties. You have to run into these people for the next 3 months.

[FuzzieAlum]

Personally, I think that if this had occurred at another school, say a very poor one, and it had been caught on tape, the stink would have been just as big. If it wasn't, no doubt somebody would be saying that would actually be unfair to the poorer kids - ignoring criminal behavior at their school just because they aren't rich? Don't we care about them too?

And if this story wasn't covered in the news, someone would be saying, "Their daddies covered it up because they're rich." Someone is going to be unhappy no matter what school this happened at or how it's received in the press.

But "what might ofs" don't get very far in helping us deal with "what dids." This story is on the news, fairly or not, and it's too late to take it back.

[LXAAlum]

Originally posted by AXJules
You took it out of context. Legally, willingly playing powderpuff all the other years cannot get you kicked out of school. I wrote this in response to people saying they could have made rules earlier. Legally you cannot prohibit someone from playing a "game" willingly.

This year is totally different, its a criminal activity.

I think you WILL see students kicked out of school, or at least suspended, and not given the privilege of attending commencement at the very leasts.

The PR fallout from this is so condemning, they can't possibly do nothing, nor issue a slap on the wrist. This story is world-wide. The school, the principal most likely, and many seniors fate is sealed.

I see a LOT of legal problems coming the way of the participants AND the school. Especially the school. This is an "age-old tradition", as you seem to describe it, so it is ludicrous to assume the school was ignorant. The participants would wear shirts TO SCHOOL prior to the event. Another reason to conclude the school could not be aware.

Students SIGNED statements about participating - very very dumb. Another nail in the coffin. Just because you know ahead of the fact that violence will be a part is not a defense. That's like a bank robber who kills a teller in a robbery that the teller should have seen it coming, because bank robberies can be violent.

The trends here are so frighteningly similar to GLO hazing incidents that make the news. "It's been 'tradition.' We've always done it this way." "Just a couple of people got out of hand." "We never expected it to get so bad."

For anyone in any kind of social club - high school, GLO, whatever, who has the "it can't happen here mentality..." Look at the faces on the video. It CAN happen. Here. There. Everywhere. ESPECIALLY when this is an underground event, hidden from ANY kind of supervision, sanction, or oversight.

I haven't been this worked up over an issue in years.

AXJules - I'm not pointing any finger of blame in your general direction. In fact, based on my experiences in high school, any finger pointing would be best done in front of a mirror. But, this incident just goes to show how unexpectedly BAD an incident can become, regardless of "tradition" or "expectations."

[33girl]

Originally posted by adduncan
..to keep this Greek-related.

Anytime someone thinks that the NPC, NPHC, and NIC have "gone too far" in their anti-hazing rules need only read some of the responses on this thread to understand WHY such restrictions are necessary today. Even in the 21st century, some teenagers will justify cruelty. Notice the relativistic "it wasn't as bad as....." justification.

Ladies and Gents, if this is the next generation coming into GLOs, the governing bodies will have a lot to deal with for years to come.

Adrienne (PNAM-2003)

(edited for spelling errors)

Adrienne, with all due respect, you are not yet a member of a GLO and you have not seen how far some of the hazing rules go. So don't say all the choices made have been right, because they haven't, and I've seen chapters suffer for it. I've seen chapters that are afraid to joke with their pledges or hang out with them for fear that something they will do will be misinterpreted. And as a result, sisterhood has gone down the tubes.

and anyhoo, I don't think we need to even bring up Greek life discussing this subject, until these hellions are off to college and their sorry butts get blackballed out of rush. (I'm addressing the girls who did this, not the whole school) I'm sure there are enough upstanding members in this generation to do so.

I do agree with the fact that a lot of the press is coming because this is an affluent school. **cough cough JonBenet cough cough**

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by AXJules
You can't make rules for off campus behavior, besides drugs and alcohol. We have an anti hazing policy for our athletes. This wasn't affiliated with athletics, it was just something peers did to each other. The code of conduct is a school written thing.....but in all the past years if girls say "Hey I want to play powderpuff! And they willingly pay $$ to do it and no one gets upset each year, how are you going to write rules around that???? Legally, they did nothing wrong, thats my point. They're not afraid of pissing off lawyer parents, they know that the school has no jurisdiction among making rules for things people do willingly.

You can't say this has happened every year. It hasn't.

I was under the impression that the school had problems with this before on a lesser scale. You're right. If students didn't complain, then the school didn't have a reason to establish a policy.

It's just unfortunate that this situation escalated into a melee where girls were injured. The fact that it is a national story might help prevent other events like this from happening in the future.

AXJules, thank you for your honesty and sharing your experience. It must be really hard to see your school receive this negative press. I hope that this is one of those experiences from which all of the people involved can grow stronger and better.