It happened again...

[kdonline]

I just got an email from one of my former students who is going to a costume party..

He is dressing up as Puff Daddy/P. Diddy and his girlfriend is dressing up as Jennifer Lopez. (they are 21)

They're both white.

He doesn't see the harm in painting himself black - he says it's all about the clothes, anyway..

<sigh!>

[starang21]

Originally posted by kdonline
I just got an email from one of my former students who is going to a costume party..

He is dressing up as Puff Daddy/P. Diddy and his girlfriend is dressing up as Jennifer Lopez. (they are 21)

They're both white.

He doesn't see the harm in painting himself black - he says it's all about the clothes, anyway..

<sigh!>

then why not go do it at a place where black people are going to be? i'd venture to say that it wouldn't be taken very well by the black folks at the party. or is this "good clean fun" only going to happen at a place where he's safe? if no one sees the harm in it, then why don't they do it at a place where people who'll be offended are going to be?

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by starang21


then why not go do it at a place where black people are going to be? i'd venture to say that it wouldn't be taken very well by the black folks at the party. or is this "good clean fun" only going to happen at a place where he's safe? if no one sees the harm in it, then why don't they do it at a place where people who'll be offended are going to be?

that would be interesting..

[starang21]

Originally posted by texas*princess


that would be interesting..

it really would, seriously, if there's nothing wrong with it, why not go to a place where all types of people are going to be? or is it only funny if word doesn't get out?

[Honeykiss1974]

Originally posted by kdonline
I just got an email from one of my former students who is going to a costume party..

He is dressing up as Puff Daddy/P. Diddy and his girlfriend is dressing up as Jennifer Lopez. (they are 21)

They're both white.

He doesn't see the harm in painting himself black - he says it's all about the clothes, anyway..

<sigh!>

I wonder if the female will paint herself BROWN?
Oh brother.......

[Kevin]

Originally posted by starang21


then why not go do it at a place where black people are going to be? i'd venture to say that it wouldn't be taken very well by the black folks at the party. or is this "good clean fun" only going to happen at a place where he's safe? if no one sees the harm in it, then why don't they do it at a place where people who'll be offended are going to be?

It's an interesting concept... If you'll bear with me

Say he goes to this "safe" place... Communication does not occur unless a signal is sent AND recieved. So at least the offensive message inherent in the communication would not exist since there is no inherent meaning in ANY communication. It almost becomes one of those "if there was a tree that fell in the forest and no one was around to hear it" type things. Although I'm pretty sure that at least someone there would hopefully have some clue as to what was going on and put a stop to it.

If he goes to a place where he knows he'll offend... Well why not just drive his car into a brick wall? Should provide you with the same results.. Only difference is people would respect him a lot more if that's all he did

I'd even wager that many african-americans have no clue as to the meaning and the inherent offensiveness of blackface. Many probably don't understand the historical context from which it comes and wouldn't care anyway. I'm NOT arguing to say it's right.. just pointing out that this occurs because of a lack of sensitivity and a lack of understanding and most of all a lack of communication. If people don't understand that there are boundaries they will probably at some point unwittingly cross them. They need to be taught what's okay and what's not.

I'm wondering though what the proper forum should be for this type of education? Not enough people pay attention to the media (or the informative aspects of it) to make it effective at disseminating this... Perhaps schools need to make sensitivity part of their curriculum? Of course with all the subjects competing for attention I don't see that happening anytime soon.

It's an interesting thought though.

[kdonline]

Originally posted by starang21


then why not go do it at a place where black people are going to be? i'd venture to say that it wouldn't be taken very well by the black folks at the party. or is this "good clean fun" only going to happen at a place where he's safe? if no one sees the harm in it, then why don't they do it at a place where people who'll be offended are going to be?

Actually, I'll ask him that..

And BTW, I should have corrected my earlier message - they're both hispanic. (2nd gen Cuban, I think..maybe Colombian - I can't keep track of all my students.. my memory is going! )

[librasoul22]

Originally posted by xp2k
Librasoul

I agree with a majority of what you say, however, I do not agree about racism.

Racism does not involve power. You do not need power to hate or to have bad feelings or predetermined judgement about others.

You do however need power to use hatred in a negative manner against an entire group, which is why (at least I believe) "reverse discrimination" is theoretically impossible.

If you mean that African Americans can not be racist in the capacity of the latter, then I can agree.

But...otherwise I disagree...I think that all human's have the fundamental capacity to be bad or good.


Xp2k

If that is the case, you mean PREJUDICED. Yes, anyone of any race can be prejudiced. However, in order to take that next step into racism, one must possess enough power to actually exert some form of oppression on another race. You really should take a look at the Prejudism thread (if you have a good 4 hours, lol), because there was a great discussion. In case you didn't know, this is only about the 45th time race has been debated on GC, lol.

Also:

I'd even wager that many african-americans have no clue as to the meaning and the inherent offensiveness of blackface. Many probably don't understand the historical context from which it comes and wouldn't care anyway. I'm NOT arguing to say it's right.. just pointing out that this occurs because of a lack of sensitivity and a lack of understanding and most of all a lack of communication. If people don't understand that there are boundaries they will probably at some point unwittingly cross them. They need to be taught what's okay and what's not.

ktsnake, you are absolutely right, and that is the worst part of all.

[starang21]

Originally posted by ktsnake


It's an interesting concept... If you'll bear with me

Say he goes to this "safe" place... Communication does not occur unless a signal is sent AND recieved. So at least the offensive message inherent in the communication would not exist since there is no inherent meaning in ANY communication. It almost becomes one of those "if there was a tree that fell in the forest and no one was around to hear it" type things. Although I'm pretty sure that at least someone there would hopefully have some clue as to what was going on and put a stop to it.

If he goes to a place where he knows he'll offend... Well why not just drive his car into a brick wall? Should provide you with the same results.. Only difference is people would respect him a lot more if that's all he did

I'd even wager that many african-americans have no clue as to the meaning and the inherent offensiveness of blackface. Many probably don't understand the historical context from which it comes and wouldn't care anyway. I'm NOT arguing to say it's right.. just pointing out that this occurs because of a lack of sensitivity and a lack of understanding and most of all a lack of communication. If people don't understand that there are boundaries they will probably at some point unwittingly cross them. They need to be taught what's okay and what's not.

I'm wondering though what the proper forum should be for this type of education? Not enough people pay attention to the media (or the informative aspects of it) to make it effective at disseminating this... Perhaps schools need to make sensitivity part of their curriculum? Of course with all the subjects competing for attention I don't see that happening anytime soon.

It's an interesting thought though.

actually, i'd venture to say that lots of black folks know what the connotations of blackface means. but that's beside the point, if one can't do something out in the open, then what makes it right behind closed doors? or is just said person a coward?

[Kevin]

Originally posted by starang21


actually, i'd venture to say that lots of black folks know what the connotations of blackface means. but that's beside the point, if one can't do something out in the open, then what makes it right behind closed doors? or is just said person a coward?

Well I was speaking about an ignorant person in a hypothetical situation in which no one understood what they were doing. I then reasoned why that would be possible (and that it probably happens more than you think).

Now this person that we're discussing plans to don some Blackface to be P-diddy/daddy whatever and honestly has no clue as to what problems that will create. He's not doing it behind closed doors... My interpretation is that he's going to wear it to some sort of party which I'd imagine isn't a racially segregated one.

[Honeykiss1974]

Oh my, the fact that they are both Latino/Latina still doesn't make it any better. I still don't understand the rational.....

Without the blackface, he would look like a guy in a suit.
With the blackface, he will look like a guy in a suit with black make-up on.


JUST SAY NO TO BLACKFACE....

[starang21]

Originally posted by ktsnake


Well I was speaking about an ignorant person in a hypothetical situation in which no one understood what they were doing. I then reasoned why that would be possible (and that it probably happens more than you think).

Now this person that we're discussing plans to don some Blackface to be P-diddy/daddy whatever and honestly has no clue as to what problems that will create. He's not doing it behind closed doors... My interpretation is that he's going to wear it to some sort of party which I'd imagine isn't a racially segregated one.

if it was going to be at one of those frat parties, i'd say it would be racially segregated. look at the auburn incident, i'm almost positive that there were no black people at that party.

[texas*princess]

Originally posted by Honeykiss1974
Oh my, the fact that they are both Latino/Latina still doesn't make it any better. I still don't understand the rational.....

Without the blackface, he would look like a guy in a suit.
With the blackface, he will look like a guy in a suit with black make-up on.


JUST SAY NO TO BLACKFACE....

agreed. i don't think it matters if the person is purple, green, blue, or gold. the negative connotations (sp?) blackface has is still the same.

[Optimist Prime]

I want to throw something out there. What if a black person who was light skinned used black face to darken up?

[Dionysus]

Originally posted by Optimist Prime
I want to throw something out there. What if a black person who was light skinned used black face to darken up?

Good lawd! Double OFFENSE!