Why are recs absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others?

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

We have seen women coming through at Ole Miss with several DUIs on their records. Sometimes those are on the letters of reference and sometimes not.

Just wondering -- how do they fare in rush?

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by MaryPoppins

We have seen women coming through at Ole Miss with several DUIs on their records. Sometimes those are on the letters of reference and sometimes not.

In one rec I wrote, for a woman rushing a Midwestern university, I included newspaper articles concerning her underage drinking bust (large party=big news here) the summer prior to her beginning college. She was turned away from my group, but joined another.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In one rec I wrote, for a woman rushing a Midwestern university, I included newspaper articles concerning her underage drinking bust (large party=big news here) the summer prior to her beginning college. She was turned away from my group, but joined another.

And I would simply not send a rec instead of doing this. Especially if a ton of kids in town got in trouble for the same party.

Wondering when carnation's going to shut this one down.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Cheerio

In one rec I wrote, for a woman rushing a Midwestern university, I included newspaper articles concerning her underage drinking bust...

Originally Posted by amIblue?

And I would simply not send a rec instead of doing this.

So...you don't send a rec. How is the chapter supposed to know if you don't tell them?
Really and truly, those ***warning*** recs are more valuable than the ones for the (presumably) "good" girls.
Please alumnae...if you know something, alert the chapter! Don't assume that if there's no rec, they won't pledge that candidate!

[MaryPoppins]

Titchou, know what you mean, choufleur. HartofSEC, I didn't ask at the time but when I see the MS Advisor I will ask if she knows what happened. From what I recall we released them.

[DubaiSis]

But if the alums are so important to the process (and it sounds like only when IN PERSON), then why not formalize that process and eliminate the recs that are so fraught with problems?

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

But if the alums are so important to the process (and it sounds like only when IN PERSON), then why not formalize that process and eliminate the recs that are so fraught with problems?

That's an interesting question. I certainly wouldn't want to discount the wisdom of the alums involved with recruitment, but I assume that even chapters where recs are not the norm have knowledgeable chapter advisors involved in person.

I guess my overall question might be -- how different is the end result (pledge class) of the XYZ chapter at Big Southern University, where recs are absolutely necessary, from the XYZ chapter at Northern U, where recs are not the norm?

[adpiucf]

Originally Posted by Hartofsec

I guess my overall question might be -- how different is the end result (pledge class) of the XYZ chapter at Big Southern University, where recs are absolutely necessary, from the XYZ chapter at Northern U, where recs are not the norm?

None. The chapter gets the girls it wants either way. I don't think the recs make a lick of difference. At the end of the day, the chapter will pledge well qualified women with great resumes whose personalities are compatible with the chapter. The recommendation has outlived its usefulness because it is no longer a true recommendation. It's an under the table prereq to try to avoid disqualification, and that is surely not how they were intended by our organizations. It's now just a nuisance for the collegians to process and for PNMs to fuss over. I think it has lasted this long because it is the only significant thing linking massive numbers of alumnae to sorority life.

I still believe recommendations can be valuable when they are made by someone who knows a PNM well, and there should be some type of alumnae vetting prior to initiation. However, with respect to rec-heavy schools, even they have to agree the situation is out of control and lends itself to added hype and hysteria.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I still believe recommendations can be valuable when they are made by someone who knows a PNM well, and there should be some type of alumnae vetting prior to initiation. However, with respect to rec-heavy schools, even they have to agree the situation is out of control and lends itself to added hype and hysteria.

Hm...this brings up something interesting...pledge periods used to be a lot longer, and, I *think*, in most orgs, it used to be easier to break a pledge if something came out about the woman that made her unfit for membership. I don't really know where I am going with this, except that it seems like perhaps the "no rec" has possibly gotten more important?

[DubaiSis]

I don't think there IS a difference. That's why us yankees think the whole process is just silly. And you can't use number of rushees or number of chapters as a reason. Most of the Big 10 is comparable or larger in number of rushees, although in general there are more chapters at the Big 10 schools so it's spread out a little more. You also can't use age of the chapters as a reason because most of the oldest chapters are Midwestern or Northern. I think the southern chapters didn't really kick off until the 20th century for some obvious reasons.

I can accept that there is a fear of no longer relying on recommendations, but, just as RFM didn't kill sororities, eliminating this tedious step also wouldn't. But that being said, I still think there IS a role for alumnae. I just don't think paperwork is where it's at.

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I don't think there IS a difference. That's why us yankees think the whole process is just silly. And you can't use number of rushees or number of chapters as a reason. Most of the Big 10 is comparable or larger in number of rushees, although in general there are more chapters at the Big 10 schools so it's spread out a little more. You also can't use age of the chapters as a reason because most of the oldest chapters are Midwestern or Northern. I think the southern chapters didn't really kick off until the 20th century for some obvious reasons.

I can accept that there is a fear of no longer relying on recommendations, but, just as RFM didn't kill sororities, eliminating this tedious step also wouldn't. But that being said, I still think there IS a role for alumnae. I just don't think paperwork is where it's at.

This is actually the issue I'm interested in talking about.

I'm in the rec-writing always-done-it-this-way group, but it seems to me that chapters all over recruit and pledge great girls into (our own) sisterhoods without going through all these motions.

[Titchou]

1) That's my term for it - hence the quotation marks around it.

2) What your GLO requires, I do not know. I only know the way we do it. I won't argue with the procedures of yours if you won't argue with mine.

3) That's public information as it is on her transcript and her class schedule. Putting it in those terms on a rec - in a proper way - is calling it to the chapter's attention - particularly if she becomes a "rush crush."

[Hartofsec]

Originally Posted by Titchou

1) That's my term for it - hence the quotation marks around it.

2) What your GLO requires, I do not know. I only know the way we do it. I won't argue with the procedures of yours if you won't argue with mine.

No argument intended, but I think this is an interesting discussion of why we do what we have always done -- and if this really serves the purpose that we think.

One of those changes (previously mentioned) over the years has been the number of OOS PNMs. I'm just not convinced that a Bama pledge class that is about 78% OOS is/was dependent on "proper SEC recs," since OOS alums are far less likely to be familiar with such a local concept or culture.

Originally Posted by Titchou

3) That's public information as it is on her transcript and her class schedule. Putting it in those terms on a rec - in a proper way - is calling it to the chapter's attention - particularly if she becomes a "rush crush."

I don't agree that this is public information -- but this information is easy to access and interpret on a PNM's transcript (both official and unofficial -- submitted with the PNM's consent and knowledge).

[gee_ess]

Considering some discussion on another thread – I was wondering – why are recommendations absolutely necessary at some schools, while not expected at others (acknowledging that member selection policies vary among chapters)?

I have been, in general, responding to this question by the OP. I have personal knowledge and experience with the types of recruitment where recs are absolutely necessary and was trying to explain (rationalize?) why recs are such an integral part of these recruitments.

I am often frustrated when I feel others are implying that recs are such alien and offensive parts of rush that their chapter practically freaks out when they get one, and therefore, the chapters that use them are not really doing a good job of recruiting by relying on them for part of the recruitment process.

Maybe I was over-thinking some of the comments...my apologies if that was not the case.

[gee_ess]

Good thoughts, ADPiUCF

Maybe that is what is at play here. Some groups, as a whole, do not value alumnae recommendations. It is not the chapter, but the entire organization? This is something I really was not aware of and would make sense.