A local sorority at USC?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by OPhiAGinger

Yes, she's criticizing a system, but she obviously still wants to be a part of it. She wants to change it from the inside, but she didn't feel comfortable with the single option she had left. So, are her only options to either join Peggy Olson (even though she never felt like she fit in there) or just shut up about her concerns? It sounds like those posters who know the USC campus best have validated that there is a growing problem there. Wanting to help address the problem is a positive thing, and she's just trying to find another way to do that as an insider. I think you may have jumped the gun to paint her as sour grapes because she didn't get the bid she wanted. There's no evidence of that here.

She's criticizing the same system she wanted to be a part of, now all of a sudden "they" don't live up to 'their' values. Funny that. It may not be sour grapes, but it is certainly misplaced. She doesn't "know" anything other than the partying that happens on most college campuses. She has no idea whether Suzy miniskirt calls local businesses during the daytime to request donations for their silent auction for their philanthropy. Or whether Daisy Drank-too-much also volunteers at the homeless shelter. Or is top in her field of engineering and this party was letting off some serious steam.

Even if you can find terrible examples of greekdom on any campus, you can find exemplary examples on the SAME campus. OP painted the entire system with a broad brush despite her expressed desire to join it. And, no matter what she may think, any group she starts on campus is going to be drawn from the same pool of students. She is unlikely to magically attract the most selfless of all students and none of the 'bad apples.'

As a slightly different example, say that I had an opinion about OPhiA. They're not selective enough about grades. (making this up, obviously). I don't like this about your GLO, nationwide. It's a serious flaw and you should fix it. Alternatively since I'm not joining, and you won't fix it, I'm going to make a group and call it BetterthanOPhiA and we will have higher standards and be better and everyone will flock to us once they see we're right. A) You're going to be unimpressed by my demands in the first place, B) you might be mad or just not give a shit, c) no one else is going to flock to my banner and d) it's really dumb.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And, no matter what she may think, any group she starts on campus is going to be drawn from the same pool of students. She is unlikely to magically attract the most selfless of all students and none of the 'bad apples.'

Yep. This is so prevalent, in so many ways. "Like hey dude, my friend is a Sigma Kappa at ABC U and her sisters are so totally hot. We need to bring Sigma Kappa to XYZ College so we can have a hot sorority instead of the crappy ones that are here now."

The girl version of the above is change "hot" to "nice" or "awesome."

As much as I'm sure our organizations would love to believe (and make everyone else believe) that their rituals and programs could magically transform every single girl who joins into the perfect woman...it just doesn't work that way. It's not like bringing a Nordstrom to a town full of Walmarts...and even if you do that, not all Nordstroms are created equal.

[kaeb]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

She's criticizing the same system she wanted to be a part of, now all of a sudden "they" don't live up to 'their' values. Funny that. It may not be sour grapes, but it is certainly misplaced. She doesn't "know" anything other than the partying that happens on most college campuses. She has no idea whether Suzy miniskirt calls local businesses during the daytime to request donations for their silent auction for their philanthropy. Or whether Daisy Drank-too-much also volunteers at the homeless shelter. Or is top in her field of engineering and this party was letting off some serious steam.

Even if you can find terrible examples of greekdom on any campus, you can find exemplary examples on the SAME campus. OP painted the entire system with a broad brush despite her expressed desire to join it.

it's possible to want to be a part of Greek life at SC or even be a part of Greek life here and acknowledge that it has some flaws, particularly with the way Greeks are perceived. Our image is a major problem right now, and pretty much everyone here knows it. Yes, there are awesome people who have 4.0s/do tons of community service/etc, but right now at SC, that's not how most people see Greeks, especially in light of the whole sex-on-a-roof/viral email/tons of transports/social probation thing. It's hard to see past that into what Greek life really is occasionally, but I think SC2013 has to some extent, and that's why she wishes to join a sorority, despite all the image problems that come with Greek life as a whole at SC right now.

I don't want to sound super bitchy or whatever, but I think it's a lot easier to criticize her if you don't go to USC and aren't familiar with what's going on here right now. Like I've said many times before, I love my sorority and couldn't be happier, but I get where she's coming from.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by kaeb

it's possible to want to be a part of Greek life at SC or even be a part of Greek life here and acknowledge that it has some flaws, particularly with the way Greeks are perceived. Our image is a major problem right now, and pretty much everyone here knows it. Yes, there are awesome people who have 4.0s/do tons of community service/etc, but right now at SC, that's not how most people see Greeks, especially in light of the whole sex-on-a-roof/viral email/tons of transports/social probation thing. It's hard to see past that into what Greek life really is occasionally, but I think SC2013 has to some extent, and that's why she wishes to join a sorority, despite all the image problems that come with Greek life as a whole at SC right now.

I don't want to sound super bitchy or whatever, but I think it's a lot easier to criticize her if you don't go to USC and aren't familiar with what's going on here right now. Like I've said many times before, I love my sorority and couldn't be happier, but I get where she's coming from.

The message she sent was that you and your sisters don't live up to your values. Everything else you're saying shows you're not getting what we're saying. Were she on my campus - one where I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge its flaws - I would expect no one to listen to her, or join her interest group.

[DrPhil]

lane swerve/

Am I reading this correctly? Is this a nonGreek criticizing Greeks and acting like she has the answers? Warning. Any member of a GLO who would agree with what this nonGreek is saying has completely missed not only what she is saying but also the tone and context.

If you see some issues with your GLO or with the Greek system at your school, you're an insider. Work towards change. Don't let a nonGreek be the voice of criticism and the leader for change. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good way to scare away prospective members. When you admit that you have issues and appear to be admitting that nonGreeks have it as, or more, figured out than you may, why would anyone want to join your GLO?


/lane swerve

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

lane swerve/

Am I reading this correctly? Is this a nonGreek criticizing Greeks and acting like she has the answers? Warning. Any member of a GLO who would agree with what this nonGreek is saying has completely missed not only what she is saying but also the tone and context.

If you see some issues with your GLO or with the Greek system at your school, you're an insider. Work towards change. Don't let a nonGreek be the voice of criticism and the leader for change. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good way to scare away prospective members. When you admit that you have issues and appear to be admitting that nonGreeks have it as, or more, figured out than you may, why would anyone want to join your GLO?


/lane swerve

You're reading it correcting, the fact that she was rushing is just a little gravy side note to the potatoes.

[28StGreek]

Originally Posted by kaeb

but right now at SC, that's not how most people see Greeks, especially in light of the whole sex-on-a-roof/viral email/tons of transports/social probation thing.

I know that GDI v. Greek, Tier debates, and partying happens at all schools, and that larger, establish Greek systems share similar problems and that USC is nothing unique.

I also personally feel that she should have taken her bid, because to succeed at USC (or any school) is all about Grades, Campus Involvement, Leadership training (in positions) and your support network (friends, family, sisters/brothers) and not because of which houses you are having BnBs or Exchanges with. You can really achieve and excel as a member of any GLO.

But I think that there may be genuine reasoning behind the OP in suddenly all being critical of a system she had seen for a year before she decided to go through recruitment.

This year seems to have been more aggressive in terms of behavior and 'Fratitude' or 'Sratitude' (to borrow a term), and I really think it is coming from certain individuals/groups on the Row who are trying to emulate the image/lifestyle represented on certain Greek-interest websites. The popularity of those websites has really blossomed in the past semester to maybe since the fall.

The Cocksman email, and then the rooftop incidents, while isolated cases, seem to be the straw that has broken the proverbial camel.

For someone on the outside looking-in, at the moment it looks like there is nothing Panhellenic/Interfraternal going on the Row. People up and down the row were so quick to criticize the Sorority who were hosting the Philanthropy event for being a house of sluts, when it turns out that the girl involved did not even go to USC and was a member of another GLO at another school! Everyday there appears to be a scandal of sorts relating to the Greek system that is coming out of the student body rumor-mill.

And the fact that the entire Row has been put on Social Probation seems to rubber stamp the negative views that Greeks are not doing things right.

Of course all the leaders in SC Greek community are trying their very best to turn it all around, and I am sure with the exception of a few bad apples, that every house's members are committed to the positives.

The Greek tradition at SC extends all the way to 1887, so I am sure it will survive this past semester, as it has done other scandals in the past. Hopefully the recovery happens sooner, in time for Fall recruitment.

[kaeb]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The message she sent was that you and your sisters don't live up to your values. Everything else you're saying shows you're not getting what we're saying. Were she on my campus - one where I'm perfectly willing to acknowledge its flaws - I would expect no one to listen to her, or join her interest group.

The message I got is that it looks like Greeks as a whole aren't living up to their values. And I'm saying that I get where she's coming from. If I were to take a step back and try to look at Greek life with an outsider's perspective, I'd say she has a valid point. I am an insider, so to speak, though, so I know that we're more than that, but I get where she's coming from. Apparently I'm one of the only ones here who does, though.

Also, sidenote, but I think our chapter is doing a fine job of living up to "one hope of many people."

I don't think she would have much success starting a local only because of how unwilling girls would be to join a new sorority, much less one with no national affiliation. Many people have said things along these lines, and I agree with them.

Yes, she said some very harsh things about Greek life, but they're really not anything new. Yes, it hurts knowing that's what non-Greeks think of us, but that doesn't make them think any differently. And yes, we, as the USC Greek community, are working to change those perceptions, but it's not easy.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

She didn't take her bid because of the chapter's reputation as being smaller, less-popular, whatever. Then she turned around and said, in essence, that she wanted to start a new chapter and affiliate with KD, because nobody is living up to their values. I'm curious which part of rejecting women based on gossip about tiers is "honorable, beautiful, and highest".

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by kaeb

The message I got is that it looks like Greeks as a whole aren't living up to their values. And I'm saying that I get where she's coming from. If I were to take a step back and try to look at Greek life with an outsider's perspective, I'd say she has a valid point. I am an insider, so to speak, though, so I know that we're more than that, but I get where she's coming from. Apparently I'm one of the only ones here who does, though.

Also, sidenote, but I think our chapter is doing a fine job of living up to "one hope of many people."

I don't think she would have much success starting a local only because of how unwilling girls would be to join a new sorority, much less one with no national affiliation. Many people have said things along these lines, and I agree with them.

Yes, she said some very harsh things about Greek life, but they're really not anything new. Yes, it hurts knowing that's what non-Greeks think of us, but that doesn't make them think any differently. And yes, we, as the USC Greek community, are working to change those perceptions, but it's not easy.

All Greeks includes you too.

And I don't think anyone here is shocked or hurt by what she said. Maybe USC Greeks are, but that suggests you were unaware of the problem until she so kindly told you what was wrong. It's not a matter of not getting where she's coming from. I get it. That doesn't make her any less condescending in the process.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

She didn't take her bid because of the chapter's reputation as being smaller, less-popular, whatever. Then she turned around and said, in essence, that she wanted to start a new chapter and affiliate with KD, because nobody is living up to their values. I'm curious which part of rejecting women based on gossip about tiers is "honorable, beautiful, and highest".

LOL

[kaeb]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

She didn't take her bid because of the chapter's reputation as being smaller, less-popular, whatever. Then she turned around and said, in essence, that she wanted to start a new chapter and affiliate with KD, because nobody is living up to their values. I'm curious which part of rejecting women based on gossip about tiers is "honorable, beautiful, and highest".

I never got the impression that she didn't join the chapter because of its reputation, I got the impression that she didn't join them because she didn't connect with the girls.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by kaeb

I never got the impression that she didn't join the chapter because of its reputation, I got the impression that she didn't join them because she didn't connect with the girls.

That's a well known way of saying, "I'm too good for them."

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

That's a well known way of saying, "I'm too good for them."

To be fair, once in a while it means "that's the Jewish house".

[28StGreek]

I just noticed that one thing that has been overlooked in this thread is that we all automatically think Greek = Social GLO. I know it is a pretty common subconscious mistake to make but we can't accuse the OP of being non-Greek.

However the criticism that she does not know what goes on within NPC (and NIC) orgs still stands.