9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying - Page 7

DrPhil · #91 03-31-2010, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

However treating mental illnesses like they're a silly catch all for emotional problems is just plain wrong.

So, you agree with me.

srmom · #92 03-31-2010, 01:02 PM

No need to be insulting and rude. My "rat's patootie" comment was because you diverted the discussion from bullying to mainstream attention to the problem because of race!

I see that you edited your post, and I do agree with this:

Quote:

I don't condone kids fighting back but there are a number of ways to let bullies know that they need to sit down somewhere. Even taking your kid to self-defense classes can boost self-esteem and provide a defense mechanism if need be.

The right solutions supposedly, or what parents are told to do, are for the student or parents to go to the school's administrators/teachers and let them know bullying is going on, but if schools do not respond to parent's and student's complaints, despite zero tolerance policies, then what is the solution?

Giving someone classes to bolster self esteem isn't going to help when they are the object of bullying, the bullying is counteracting any of the positive effects of martial arts classes, or modeling classes, or tutoring or whatever the parents have signed their kids up for to try to bolster their self esteem. And if it is physical bullying, a junior high age kid being outweighed by a brute or outnumbered is going to get beaten up regardless of his Kung Fu skills.

Alumiyum · #93 03-31-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrPhil

So, you agree with me.

Did I say I didn't?

Prettyface08 · #94 03-31-2010, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

It doesn't, but it doesn't mean you can do shit about it either. It's ridiculous to expect one kid to fight a group especially if he is smaller than they, and the "hit them back" attitude backfires just about every single time.

Having been the little person (and no I wasn't tiny, but small enough to know I couldn't take them all on in a million years) surrounded by much larger girls, I know exactly how it feels when you realize there is literally nothing you can do to protect yourself at that moment. Knowing you can run to a teacher or parent afterword isn't reassuring at the moment they're closing in.

No, she can't. Because whether the computer is on or not, people are talking about her all over the internet, and she knows it's in reading for the entire world to see.

I don't believe in treating children like they're made of glass, but this sort of attitude is exactly why the situation ended like it did.

Not to mention, what if she had depression (clinical) on top of this bullying? People never take that into account and it's absolutely a real disease.

Sometimes there is no "manning up" I've seen what happens when a kid is mercilessly tormented. At least before Facebook kids could, for the most part, escape it for a few hours once they left school. Think about how it feels to not only be mercilessly tormented at school, but to be tormented with no break. Ever. Knowing that the entire world can read what bullies wrote and it'll follow her forever. In the mind of a teenager who is already struggling, that's massive.

To the bold, apparently you have not been reading my posts...or the one you responded to for that matter. I said she'd have peace at home and I never said to treat her like she was glass and that it shouldn't have been dealth with. When responding to me, read the entire post. Please and thankies.

DrPhil · #95 03-31-2010, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

No need to be insulting and rude. My "rat's patootie" comment was because you diverted the discussion from bullying to mainstream attention to the problem because of race!

Your comment was an attempt at snark and borderline rudeness just like your post about talking to your parents. You picked the wrong one if you thought you'd type like that to me but get nothing in return.

Lesson learned on your part.

I care about mainstream attention because it matters for the general topic. You don't have to agree but I neither directed that post to you nor solicited your opinion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

I see that you edited your post, and I do agree with this

I edited that before you read it and responded to it. You simply missed it. Your apology is accepted.

Ch2tf · #96 03-31-2010, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

The right solutions supposedly, or what parents are told to do, are for the student or parents to go to the school's administrators/teachers and let them know bullying is going on, but if schools do not respond to parent's and student's complaints, despite zero tolerance policies, then what is the solution?.

So you really believe that the only thing to do would be to report it directly to the school, and if nothing else is done, nothing can ever be done?

If so, then I definitely agree with Dr. Phil in her statements that parents aren't doing enough to help their kids develop "coping methods". I personally can think of at least 2 other measures to address this problem as a parent, and I'm not even stretching my brain to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

Giving someone classes to bolster self esteem isn't going to help when they are the object of bullying, the bullying is counteracting any of the positive effects of martial arts classes, or modeling classes, or tutoring or whatever the parents have signed their kids up for to try to bolster their self esteem. And if it is physical bullying, a junior high age kid being outweighed by a brute or outnumbered is going to get beaten up regardless of his Kung Fu skills.

Is self-esteem building going to fix everything, probably not, but I think you completely missed the points here. And effective discipline programs, like martial arts (it's not only about the ability to physically fight back)does in fact make significant affect on a kids perception of both the world and themselves.

DrPhil · #97 03-31-2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alumiyum

Did I say I didn't?

"However" usually means you think you're about to say something however-worthy. Your wording was in line with what I already said although I believe you meant something different.

srmom · #98 03-31-2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I'd say, not only were you lucky, but somewhere you were given (by parents or maybe by "nature") a coping mechanism. You were self aware enough to make a judgement about what you did/didn't want to do, and with that you didn't let this chick get in your head.

I don't think saying to kids, and in particular teenagers, that "in X amount of years you will look back on this and see how insignificant it is" is a solution especially because they only think in the moment. However, at the same time, we need to do better about preparing our kids for the future, showing them what's really important, etc.

Ch2tf, while I agree that parents perparing kids for coping with bullying is important. Sometimes it just isn't enough! In the case where there is no respite, daily and constant torture, whether physically or mentally, seemingly nowhere to turn, no opportunity to find other friends (as in my case - small school, 20 or so kids in each grade), etc. anxiety and depression can set in to a point which you feel there is no hope.

In my case my parents tried everything, bolstering me up, sending me to a local modelling academy (at the time and in my place, the girl's version of martial arts classes

), telling me that it would blow over (well 4 months in with no let up whatsoever, you stop believing that), contacting the school and parents of the kids to try to get it to stop (that only gave them more ammunition), keeping me home, etc. Nothing worked, it went on and on until the emotional disturbance led to physical manifestations and illness.

What would you all have suggested my folks do? They were at wits end, trying everything they could to help me, as they saw me wasting away, sick and miserably unhappy. Their ultimate response was to take me out of the environment, and we were in a position where that was possible. It changed my life, and I am now a happy healthy adult.

As a parent, I thank God every day that my kids have come through adolescence unscathed, happy and whole. There but for the grace of God go I, and I don't judge parents who are doing the best they can, because if you haven't walked in their shoes then how are you to know what they're going through.

srmom · #99 03-31-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Your comment was an attempt at snark and borderline rudeness just like your post about talking to your parents. You picked the wrong one if you thought you'd type like that to me but get nothing in return. Lesson learned on your part.

My comment about my parents was a furious and hasty response to something I saw as a slight to them. As my post above says, they did the best they could, they were at wits end. My mother and I spoke quite a bit about it before she passed, and she honestly was dying inside at the time, not knowing what tack to take, what to do, how to help. She was a wonderful woman, but she didn't have all the answers, just as I, now a mother, don't.

We like to think we do, but we don't, and sometimes we're just flying by the seat of our pants.

DrPhil · #**100** 03-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

My comment about my parents was a furious and hasty response to something I saw as a slight to them.

Right. Get over it. You're the only one who cares about you and your parents.

Ch2tf · #**101** 03-31-2010, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

What would you all have suggested my folks do?

Exactly what they did do, pull you out of the school. Once it became clear to them that the girls would not stop, and the school and the other parents weren't going to do anything about it, your parents understood that the matter rested in their hands, and they did what they had to do.

Is this going to be an option for everyone? Nope. And ultimately are we going to see cases where kids don't cope well? Of course, nothing as an absolute guaranteed fix for every person on this planet. However, the bigger issue is that on all sides, we need to do better, parents, schools, and kids (where applicable).

srmom · #**102** 03-31-2010, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Right. Get over it. You're the only one who cares about you and your parents.
__________________

Wow, we have had many sane and tolerant discussions and I'm frankly a bit shocked that you are being so cruel.

I am using my parents and my experience as a discussion tool, perhaps I should have just used an anonymous person. I feel that I have insight and understanding of an interesting topic and used personal experience as my basis of understanding, just as many on GC do in countless discussions.

I'm not going to flounce away, but the personal attacks are definitely unsettling, I think I'll move along quietly.

DrPhil · #**103** 03-31-2010, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by srmom

Wow, we have had many sane and tolerant discussions and I'm frankly a bit shocked that you are being so cruel.

I am using my parents and my experience as a discussion tool, perhaps I should have just used an anonymous person. I feel that I have insight and understanding of an interesting topic and used personal experience as my basis of understanding, just as many on GC do in countless discussions.

I'm not going to flounce away, but the personal attacks are definitely unsettling, I think I'll move along quietly.

You set the tone. You really wanted this to be about you and yours despite how I kept ignoring your personal story and speaking to the general topic, so...here we are.

I don't come here to be concerned with the intricacies of every username's personal life. If we're having a discussion about something that personally impacts you, YOU have to determine whether you can discuss the topic without turning it to a discussion of you and yours. Be able to draw from personal experiences without being stuck in personal experiences. No one said that YOUR parents didn't provide the proper coping mechanisms or do all that they could do because we weren't discussing you and your parents. Ch2tf shouldn't have to calm you by telling you that your parents did what they could do by taking you out of school--but I think you may still be holding on to that pain decades later.

*putting my heart back in* I wish you well.

DrPhil · #**104** 03-31-2010, 02:24 PM

http://health.msn.com/kids-health/ar...4800&GT1=31036

http://www.slate.com/id/2249307/?GT1=38001

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/36099680/?GT1=43001

Have these articles been posted already?

honeychile · #**105** 03-31-2010, 02:38 PM

Let's please not forget that Phoebe Prince wasn't an American, and didn't really know the culture. She was an Irish teen whose parents wanted to give her a chance to learn about America.