UGA Recruitment Winds Down

[violetpretty]

I'll touch on what hasn't been explicitly said. In the past 10 years, it has become very popular, particularly on campuses with large numbers of PNMs and chapters to use the release figure method (RFM). The purpose of the release figure method is to place the maximum number of PNMs. Certain chapters ("popular" ones---ones that a high percentage of PNMs would opt to return to if invited) are forced by the College Panhellenic to cut a high percentage of PNMs after the first round. Other chapters will make the majority of their cuts at different points in recruitment.

I've read recruitment stories from before the RFM was used. It was fairly common for a PNM to be invited to every (or almost every) chapter after the first round. So, of course, the PNM has the power to cut whichever chapters she wants, and usually it's the "low-tier" chapters that get cut in such a situation. Meanwhile, the "popular" chapters are inviting back tons of PNMs that they have no real intention or ability to pledge. Not using RFM on a big campus will usually guarantee a big discrepancy in size among chapters (ie "low tier" chapters don't make quota), and a lot of PNMs who get cut out of options later in recruitment because they opted to cut chapters where they had a realistic shot at a bid (lots of unmatched PNMs). VERY often, women will return to chapters that they didn't like after one or two rounds (ie. would have cut them if allowed) and find that it is the place for them.

Now, about "popular" chapters and their cuts. I will never know how any other chapter does membership selection but my own (and that's in a limited time frame), but I can speculate that because they have to make the biggest cuts after the first round that there isn't always a "reason" or there is a silly reason that you talk yourself into feeling good about because Panhellenic is forcing you to make these drastic cuts. There can be legitimate connection between a PNM and an active, but the PNM is cut simply because they have to make a certain amount of cuts, and there were more PNMs that they liked better for one reason or another. This is a problem that "popular" chapters face: how to find what you are looking for after only one party. They can choose based on whatever criteria they want, but they still must make those cuts.

Also, about suiciding. Your daughter wasn't "forced" to suicide; in fact, she was probably encouraged to list all of her preference chapters. Some campuses also have a "guaranteed matching" policy--if they have at least one preference invite, and rank all preference chapters they attended, Panhellenic will guarantee they will be matched to one of those chapters. If a large number of PNMs suicide, there will be more unmatched women, so it is discouraged. Women who suicide can and do get bids often, but it makes the PNM question, "If it came down to my second or third choice, would I rather have them or not be Greek?"

Even if your daughter feels she would have been a better fit elsewhere, encourage her to try to like her group she is pledging. She won't have a chance to pledge anywhere else until next year anyway. She might just find that she couldn't imagine herself anywhere else.

[Lightning Bug!]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

Don't you think there are ways for surveys to be taken by the PNM's to better educate the houses on who is coming to rush and to better match them with girls they are interviewed by? Obviously using resumes does not do it.

Probably...this sort of thing would take a lot of research (as to the best way to do it) and organization...I would guess that UGA Panhellenic would need to come up with a proposal for something like this, based on some solid evidence in which a similar system was tested, perhaps by researchers who study interview techniques...then UGA Panhellenic would need to confer with the nationals and with university lawyers to make sure everything was fair to all parties involved and that all the nationals agreed to it...then they'd have to figure out how to execute it...it's hard enough to match up 1300 PMNs to 180 sisters for 4 rounds of parties, just based on things like hometowns and majors, and also to ensure that the PNMs meet multiple sisters...adding in these questionnaires would require Panhellenic to sort and copy and distribute the questionnaires to the sororites, THEN the sororities would have to go through 1300-1550 questionnaires and match them up with a possible line up of sisters to take them through FOUR rounds of rush...this is a lot of organization, when they also are getting ready with decorations and songs AND just getting ready for class! So I encourage your daughter to get involved with UGA's Panhel...just don't expect this to be an easy fix!

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

My daughter had hundreds of hours of service work in a variety of organizations, she had recs from everyone.

So do we all...

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

11 houses in one day is ridiculous. These girls went home and went to bed and still were completely exhaused by day 3 and 4. They can't "perform" to their best when put in that condition.

Of course not! But Panhel is working off of the premise that it's better to get it over with than to drag the whole thing out...maybe they're right, maybe they're wrong, but again, this isn't a quick fix!

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

If only you knew the hours of tears.

I do.

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Of course they can be wicked...I can tell horrible tales about sorority recruitment...and so can my mother...and so can my grandmother...this isn't a new thing. There are girls dismissed for terrible reasons...there also are girls dismissed simply because they didn't stand out...and when you are going through a quick recruitment, that is a perfectly good reason to cut someone. As I said before, I agree with you that improvements could be made to help those girls who are charming, lovely, talented, and fun but don't have friends pulling for them inside the house or don't perhaps make the best first impression, because of shyness or whatever...but it is a BIG JOB fixing problems like these, and it doesn't happen overnight...but your daughter can be part of the solution, as can YOU...you say you have experience with the Greek system from 30 years ago...are you an alumna? Can you get in touch with your headquarters and express your concerns and see if they have some sort of task force to study recruitment?

Anyway, you clearly are tired and stressed out, so I don't think there is any point in responding further...I agree with you about most of what you say, but it isn't as if a clear solution is staring us all in the face, but we're just choosing to reject it...

Oh, and many apologies 1) that you felt attacked, and 2) that you felt we didn't provide the solutions you were seeking. We don't have the answers, and we really are sorry for your stress. I hope that you are feeling better at the thought of how much fun your daughter must be having right now!

[estherjb]

I think one of the things that make cuts so hard is you never know why you were released and, being human, we usually assume it was something we did or didn't do. In reality it could one of any number of random and impersonal things such as the time of night your name comes up or if the girl who is pushing for you is influential enough to get you through over another member's rush crush. I've seen too many stand out girls get cut and too many "slip throughs" get in not to believe there's an element of the bizarre in the selection process.

[ree-Xi]

No matter the size of the PNM group, the number of chapters, quota, etc., there will always be a contingency of women who A. don't get their first choice, or B. don't get ANY bids.

In terms of getting one's "first choice" and lamenting that there wasn't enough time for the chapter to get to know your (the general your, not you particularly) fabulous daughter - think about it in the reverse.

What are the standards by which any PNM selects one or two chapters as "her top choices"? Surely there are superficial reasons or limited knowledge that goes into choosing their favorites. I am sure that the Members have just as difficult a decision making THEIR choices. Who one person may see as the perfect PNM, another (or many) may not have had the chance to experience the same. The same thing goes for a girl whom only one has met yet feels strongly about - what if the girl isn't really that chapter's material? Who knows if your daughter really did fit into her first choice? Other than her perceptions, were they really that much of a fit?

Not saying that your daughter does not measure up to the "most beautiful", popular, social group on campus - if that is what her her deam chapter is made of, but how much alike are they really? When it comes down to it, are they similar when it comes to the little things? In my experience, that's what counts!

Before freaking out that your daughter got the shaft by not getting her first choice - and we all agree that NO system is perfect - think about the promise of joy and sisterhood ahead of your daughter. Reality is mostly one's perception.

I hope that your daughter finds happiness in her new home, and that you can allow yourself to be happy that a group really wanted her so badly over maybe hundreds of other girls!

[aopinthesky]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

You know as well as I do many of these girls are dismissed for brainless, rude reasons. These girls can be extremely wicked. I can only hope that next year and the years after that these PNM's remember how they were treated and how they felt and be a little kinder to others. Isn't that what a sorority should strive for?

Greek Stress,
I, too, am from greek life of 30 years ago. However I am still involved with AOII as a volunteer so perhaps that is why your daughter's story seems very positive to me when you seem to think her experience was so negative. Things are a LOT different than when we went through "rush" and I, for one, say bring it on. As time goes on and the new release figures take hold, I believe that we will see fewer chapters close due to numbers and more women placed during recruitments.
I disagree that girls are dropped from chapters for brainless, rude reasons. I have been to membership selection for many years and I can tell you that there is much more thought and care put into who is chosen than there ever was when I was a collegiate. The system is so much stronger and stands for so much more than it did in the 70's and 80's that most women from those years wouldn't recognize their own chapters. Moreover, I think they would be proud of what those chapters have become. I urge you to get involved in your own sorority or your daughter's and see for yourself how it is on "this side". It ain't easy. And I wish your daughter all the happiness in the world in her new home. I am sure she will blossom there.

[GreekAlphaSoup]

Very good points, AOPintheySky. Just from what I gathered this week as well, they are MUCH more thoughtful and kind than I remember from our days. Flashback....remember "cut sessions" - remember shouts of "top girl!" and "rush her hard!" or the dreaded, and only used in matters of dire necessity because it could blackball someone for life "Questionable Rep!". Cut sessions were brutal...fast forward 30 years and you could hear a pin drop on the upstairs floor when the girls were voting, or it you listened at the doorway of a dining room, not a sound was uttered. The girls are sincerely working hard to do the best job possible. And they take their responsibilities very seriously.

While I can agree with Greek Stress that girls can be "wicked", and brutal and unkind, that is certainly not unique to Greek girls....I learned it from years of working in the educational system....not to mention my teen years and those of my 3 daughters. Painful, true! So, while I am sure it happens, it is on the QT, not out in the open (I believe.)

I'm sure Panhel is trying to bring out the best in all our women.....us included!

[SWTXBelle]

If you have a suggestion as to how to match hundreds, if not over a thousand, girls with 10 or more sororities in a week's time I'd love to hear it. I don't want to sound snarky - I just honestly have yet to hear of a better way.

The system, flawed though it is, is the best we've come up with so far. The new release figures have done a wonderful job of helping match each girl with a sorority home - and yes, you are right, it doesn't always work. I will point out that it worked out for your daughter, and even had she been placed with her other pref group it might have - we have many threads in our recruitment threads that have that exact scenario, and many of those who didn't think they would click found that they were actually where they were meant to be.

Formal rush is really a very intense experience. I've posted elsewhere that my daughter will not be going through formal rush because she and I know she would not be comfortable with the hot-house environment of recruitment. I hope she is able to find a home through informal recruitment, but who knows.

I think the NPC has done a great job of trying to address concerns about recruitment. And I would be very surprised if they weren't always trying to think of ways to improve the three types of recruitment they currently recommend.

I'm so glad your daughter had a happy result. Hope she really enjoys her new member period.

[wildcatfan]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

If you have a suggestion as to how to match hundreds, if not over a thousand, girls with 10 or more sororities in a week's time I'd love to hear it. I don't want to sound snarky - I just honestly have yet to hear of a better way.

I agree, I dislike the system but don't have any better ideas. It reminds me of this quote:

Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.
- Winston Churchill

Substitute "Formal recruitment" for democracy and "membership selection" for government, and it pretty much describes the situation.

[AOEforme]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

There must be a better way?

For every application process there MUST be a better way. Take Medical School. The people who are accepted into Medical Schools aren't necessarily the people who will make the best doctors. The process doesn't test for compassion, charisma, and passion. It tests for people who look good on paper: smart, high grades, involved. Why? Surely on something as important as the future health care of the U.S. we'd find a way to test for all these?

Because, with millions of applicants each year, it simply isn't feasible. Yes, it sucks. But the way they currently have works reasonably well. Same thing with formal recruitment. It isn't the hypothetical best. But, it's the best practical form of recruitment with hundreds to thousands of girls going through each year.

Some girls miss out on some great chapters; some chapters miss out on some great girls. This happens even in Informal/COB where you theoretically have more time.

All you can do is make the best of the hand you were dealt. Greek Stress, for you this means to take a step back, be thankful your daughter got a bid at one of the most competitive recruitments in the country, and allow her to fall in love with her Sorority and her Chapter.

I promise you that complaining about how she didn't get her top WILL ruin her sorority experience for her. She'll never get to think about how lucky she is to be a XYZ: all she'll be doing is wishing for ABC. Allow her to enjoy her new sorority.

[ellebud]

So...ok question:

What is a mismatch? I'm sort of guessing that if the pnm wants House A at pref...but House A puts her on a second or third list...but there has to be more? Like House B wants her, but...not enough?

(Sorry, in my day...no computers..)

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by ellebud

So...ok question:

What is a mismatch? I'm sort of guessing that if the pnm wants House A at pref...but House A puts her on a second or third list...but there has to be more? Like House B wants her, but...not enough?

(Sorry, in my day...no computers..)

I THINK that Greek Stress simply means pnms who are "forced" to attend parties at chapters where they do not feel a connection, and not a computer/matching mismatch.

Correct me if I am wrong, GS.

[Lightning Bug!]

Ha! We all responded at the same time in the same way...sorry if we seem harsh, but really, life is full of poorly designed systems, and really, those of us that come through okay should be both grateful and willing to come up with constructive suggestions for fixing the system, not licking our relatively minor wounds and wondering why the whole thing couldn't have been lollypops and gumdrops.

I do feel your pain...if you haven't kept up with how recruitment goes in recent years, then I guess it can be a shock to the system, and I understand that the stress was very real for you and your daughter. We really are happy that she has found a good home, and we are confident that after a few days both of you will forget about most of the unpleasantness and be focused on how much fun she is having! But there are lots of very sad mothers posting right now about how their daughters didn't get ANY bid at all, not even one to turn down, and they are just hoping that their daughters can pick themselves up and move on (which they can, of course!)...so maybe your post seemed a little insensitive to those mothers, although we know of course that you didn't mean it that way. Stress is stress is stress, no matter the situation.

Now get some rest and decompress...you sound like you need it!

[Greek Stress]

You know what, I think I will work on it.
I never meant to put down any of the mothers whose daughters did not get bids. My daughter could easily have been in that situation. As I mentioned, I am new at this blogging so patience with people would be a good idea. I was hoping to get some constructive ideas from you all but criticism seems to be all you are all willing to offer.

[UGADad]

Originally Posted by Greek Stress

As I mentioned, I am new at this blogging so patience with people would be a good idea. I was hoping to get some constructive ideas from you

I'm sure your feelings were honest and you shouldn't have to apologize for venting openly on an open board about UGA sorority recritment. Lots of parents have been there and there are lots of reasons to vent about a very difficult process.

I do have one more piece of unsolicited advice for all UGA frreshman parents from someone with very limited but very recent experience: Please tell your daughters to look forward and enjoy their freshman year getting to know lots of people within and outside their sororities, no matter how good or bad they feel right now about recruitment. If they are lucky enough to be in Brumby they are with 900+ freshman girls, several of whom may well be their best friends forever. (I'm sure other dorms are great, too, but there's that limited experience thing.)

UGADaughter went to UGA from out-of-state. By the end of her first semester she had a very close-knit group of about 15 girl friends from the dorm, and she only knew one of them at the beginning of the year. Sure, if they had deferred rush at UGA they probably would have all tried to pledge together somewhere. Now they all love (or at least like) their own sororities or other groups and they have this great, close-knit group, too. Within the group of friends there are 5 sororities and 4 states represented, and at least two of the girls didn’t even go through recruitment and probably never will.

To me the most unfortunate thing about SEC recruitment is that, because it is the week before school even starts, it is the only thing going on and therefore feels like not only the most important thing, but everything. The importance of the “right match” is hugely magnified. It is only natural that the girls and we parents want that first week away from home to go perfectly. I do think it would be better if they were already in school for at least a short period before recruitment, but I also admit that I don’t know how the sisters could balance preparation for recruitment, their school work and their social lives once classes have begun.

Anyway, I am rambling. My point is this can be a wonderful year for the girls no matter how recruitment went, and the opportunities for friendship and rewarding activities are all over the place. They don’t know that yet, but they will. Just let them vent, stay supportive and encourage them to find their place, or all their places, among the many wonderful choices and opportunities they have. Be there for them, but don’t try to “solve” things for them. Stay positive and upbeat and, most likely, things will work out really well.

OK, down off my soapbox.

[GreekAlphaSoup]

Well, I'll weigh in on this one....I agree that there should be a better way (but understand that due to numbers there may not be.) It seems to me as if relying on computers to work the numbers allows positively awesome girls to fall through the cracks. Situation I learned this week: a top girl in our community was a legacy to her mom's sorority and her sister's....two top sororities on campus, she naturally put them in her top two spots. When cut from those two legacy chapters, she got six parties from the next six spots on her list (I believe). Now....if after 3rd round, she is cut and left with only, say, 1 pref, she now has no chance to re-think or re-visit sororities 9-17? Because she "cut them"? I don't get it? Or, worse still, if she receives no bid, she cannot be "snapped" because she cut a group???? I'm so confused!

"Back in the day", didn't we get our invite list and then narrow that list down based on the number of openings? For example, if we were invited 12 places, but could pick 8, we chose our top 8. Next day, perhaps we were only invited to 6 but could choose 6, we'd take them all, right?

Is my memory fuzzy? It just feels backwards from what I can recall (granted that was many moons and margaritas ago).