Is this legal? Deactivated one NPC, now part of a new NPC.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

I'm pretty sure the age limit thing doesn't apply across the board...we've had 16 year olds go through.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by Buttonz

I know this is off topic but this is intresting to me...

So if you had to be 18+ (let's just say) to go through recruitment at your school, and if you had formal in the fall that would mean freshman like myself wouldn't have been able to go through formal...in a competitive school that would have hurt my chances of getting a bid....right?

Is that fair?

At a campus like mine was, with deferred recruitment, this wouldn't have been a problem unless you skipped a grade or two. I suppose if this happened in a school with competitive recruitment, your age status would be taken into account during recruitment if you were to rush later.

It's entirely possible that whichever Rho Pi told me about the age restrictions at the time (she said that you had to be a legal adult for liability reasons and so your parents didn't have to sign off on everything) was giving me bad information, and that the greek life office just wanted PNMs birthdays to know who was underage so they could be prepared to be in contact with their legal guardians if they were to join a chapter. I just took her word for it because it seemed to make sense, and it actually kind of still does if you think about it...I'd think it'd be a pain in the ass to have to get all those parent signatures on insurance forms for greek week, softball tournaments, parties, etc. for an minor member. I would also think there would be special risk managment issues for minors. But I know it happens in chapters all over the place, so I'm sure it works out just fine.

That said, I don't think we had anyone under 18 go through recruitment in the years I was there, so it wasn't ever a problem from what I can recall.

Either way, the greek life office (and later my chapter, as we filled out the new member paperwork) definitely had my birthdate on file, and I had to verify my birthday with legal ID.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

I'm pretty sure the age limit thing doesn't apply across the board...we've had 16 year olds go through.

I was 16, but I did have to have my parents sign the financial statements.

[Ocalagirl]

Yeah, a friend of mine was 16 when she became a new member of Alpha Chi Omega. I wonder if there are any libality issues with a minor pledging an GLO?

It's interesting to see this discussion about NMs being minors.

I know that it was definitely a different kind of time when our organizations were founded, but I recall reading somewhere that several our Founders were teenagers themselves when they established our organizations.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by OTW

It's interesting to see this discussion about NMs being minors.

I know that it was definitely a different kind of time when our organizations were founded, but I recall reading somewhere that several our Founders were teenagers themselves when they established our organizations.

It's interesting to read stuff about how the age at which people were regarded as essentially adult or mature has changed over time.

The founders were amazing and it's hard to imagine very many groups of undergraduate woman today who would be able to do something similar today, at least in part because of additional red tape everywhere.

This is kind of a different issue from the legal idea of being under 18, but I think about how much additional concerns were introduced with the drinking age became 21. It happened before I was in college, so I didn't witness the change first hand, but it would seem like going from almost everyone in the group being legally adult for all purposes to the idea that some people are minors in some areas was probably weird too.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by amanda6035

but for AXiD, whenever we pledge a new member and send in their paperwork, we have to submit an "anticipated" initiation date. Prior to that date, FHQ sends us back a letter granting us permission to initiate those women. Granted, we've never received a "no you may not initiate this person" from FHQ - but I figured if we were being given permission to initiate them, then there must not have been a membership problem...

We have to do the same thing.

Originally Posted by AChiOhSnap

It's entirely possible that whichever Rho Pi told me about the age restrictions at the time (she said that you had to be a legal adult for liability reasons and so your parents didn't have to sign off on everything) was giving me bad information, and that the greek life office just wanted PNMs birthdays to know who was underage so they could be prepared to be in contact with their legal guardians if they were to join a chapter. I just took her word for it because it seemed to make sense, and it actually kind of still does if you think about it...I'd think it'd be a pain in the ass to have to get all those parent signatures on insurance forms for greek week, softball tournaments, parties, etc. for an minor member. I would also think there would be special risk managment issues for minors. But I know it happens in chapters all over the place, so I'm sure it works out just fine.

That makes sense. I just wouldn't want to hurt anyone who was 17 as a freshman in the fall (or younger).

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

This is kind of a different issue from the legal idea of being under 18, but I think about how much additional concerns were introduced with the drinking age became 21. It happened before I was in college, so I didn't witness the change first hand, but it would seem like going from almost everyone in the group being legally adult for all purposes to the idea that some people are minors in some areas was probably weird too.

Esp because right before they were considered legally adult for it and all of a sudden they weren't...

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Ocalagirl

Yeah, a friend of mine was 16 when she became a new member of Alpha Chi Omega. I wonder if there are any libality issues with a minor pledging a GLO?

I guess there could be as far as signing contracts and such, but I would think that would apply across the board (i.e. campus housing). It's probably an issue that is going to come up more if we see more kids who have been homeschooled and able to graduate early entering college at earlier ages.

[carnation]

My sister and I both entered college at 16. During rush, no one even asked my age.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by carnation

My sister and I both entered college at 16. During rush, no one even asked my age.

No one asked me either, until I actually pledged. Then, my parents had to sign on the financial statements and such. I can remember a "how old are you?!" moment all too well!!

[puddintane]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe it would be wise for College Panhellenic Councils to check out EVERY transfer student prior to Recruitment. I don't know how many that would entail on most campuses, but it can't be more than a fourth of those registering - and I for one would like to be sure that people are who they say they are.

It could be just one more step, as registrations come in. Transfer students put in one pile, and alumnae or whomever could spend the time checking out their status. They could then check them off and put them back in with the rest of the applications.

I'm the Greek Advisor at my University and we had this happen about eight years ago. When the girl that had initiated two sororities had asked her about it, she did confess, and voluntarily gave up her membership in her new sorority. We never really got to find out what would have happened because it didn't get that far.

After that happened, word got around, and the women were suggesting what you had in your post.

The issue is, anything that is in a student file is subject to privacy issues, so even as the Greek Advisor, and as a member of an NPC Sorority, I can't disclose to students anything that is in their file to Greek Organizations.

We had to do the same thing with GPA. Years ago, we used to give the Greek Organizations a list of grades of grades at the end of every term, we can't do that anymore. If the sorority has a GPA minimum, all we can verify is that they meet their minimum, but can't say an individual student has a 3.4 intead of the 4.0 they put on their application, when their minimum might be a 3.0. I've seen it, and I can't say anything about it. I can, however, say something to the student, but I can't force them to be truthful.

Just keep in mind, that it's not limited to transfer students. Many freshman have flunked out of another college and start again at another school as a "freshman". If they are not receiving financial aid, there is no way to catch it.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by Buttonz

Esp because right before they were considered legally adult for it and all of a sudden they weren't...

When the drinking age changed to 21, people who were already "legal" under the old law were grandfathered in. So, they didn't lose a privilege that they already had.

I was very young at the time, but I had several cousins who were right around the age of 18. About half of them "made the cut" age wise. I remember vividly one of my cousins being so upset because the law changed a week before his birthday...if it had changed a week later, he would have been grandfathered in also. Instead, he had to wait until 21 to be legal.

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by susan314

When the drinking age changed to 21, people who were already "legal" under the old law were grandfathered in. So, they didn't lose a privilege that they already had.

I was very young at the time, but I had several cousins who were right around the age of 18. About half of them "made the cut" age wise. I remember vividly one of my cousins being so upset because the law changed a week before his birthday...if it had changed a week later, he would have been grandfathered in also. Instead, he had to wait until 21 to be legal.

Dam. I would have been really really pissed....not like I drank on my 21st or anything (dam MTA strike in NY) but still.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by puddintane

I'm the Greek Advisor at my University and we had this happen about eight years ago. When the girl that had initiated two sororities had asked her about it, she did confess, and voluntarily gave up her membership in her new sorority. We never really got to find out what would have happened because it didn't get that far.

After that happened, word got around, and the women were suggesting what you had in your post.

The issue is, anything that is in a student file is subject to privacy issues, so even as the Greek Advisor, and as a member of an NPC Sorority, I can't disclose to students anything that is in their file to Greek Organizations.

We had to do the same thing with GPA. Years ago, we used to give the Greek Organizations a list of grades of grades at the end of every term, we can't do that anymore. If the sorority has a GPA minimum, all we can verify is that they meet their minimum, but can't say an individual student has a 3.4 intead of the 4.0 they put on their application, when their minimum might be a 3.0. I've seen it, and I can't say anything about it. I can, however, say something to the student, but I can't force them to be truthful.

Just keep in mind, that it's not limited to transfer students. Many freshman have flunked out of another college and start again at another school as a "freshman". If they are not receiving financial aid, there is no way to catch it.

Would you be permitted to answer a question like "was so and so ever a member of an NPC group?" Simply a yes or no, not even which one?

Can students sign a waiver for certain items? (I believe this must happen at some colleges because they generate GPAs and comparative lists for NPC groups which are availabe on the Greek Life page.)

[gphiangel624]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Would you be permitted to answer a question like "was so and so ever a member of an NPC group?" Simply a yes or no, not even which one?

Can students sign a waiver for certain items? (I believe this must happen at some colleges because they generate GPAs and comparative lists for NPC groups which are availabe on the Greek Life page.)

We went around and around with this issue a long time ago. Our recruitment registration forms have a statement, evaluated by our campus Registrar (who is also our FERPA Compliance officer), that basically states the PNM verifies the information is true and correct, and that she authorizes release of the information included on her registration form to the Student Life office, Panhellenic, and the chapters that belong to it. My office (Student Life) then reviews GPAs, past pledging/initiation data we have on file, and verifies if it's true or not. The PNMs are made aware of this entire process from the start, so we rarely get misinformation from them.

Regarding puddintane's concern about the grade report, I'm willing to share how we work our grade report process if you want to PM me. Again, it's approved by our campus Registrar and FERPA compliance officer as well.