The 2008 presidential field at-a-glance

[skylark]

Originally Posted by LeslieAGD

Honestly, I hate all these friggin' websites! Every single one has different numbers concerning the delegates.

Some of the changing might be because not all states have everything counted (which is the case in Calif.) so estimates of the final delegate count vary for a certain amount of time, I guess.

Another discrepancy I've seen is that some websites are counting the "superdelegates" as if they had already been pledged to a certain candidate, which isn't the case at all. The superdelegates can go however they want to come the national convention. If you take out the superdelegates, the most recent delegate counts have Barack ahead of Hillary.

[skylark]

I'm doubting the Romney as VP thing because a lot of right-wing-evangelicals aren't too jazzed about McCain and (rightly or wrongly) I think that putting a mormon on the ticket will make them even lessed jazzed.

I think Huckabee is a more likely VP candidate... or at least someone who doesn't irritate evangelicals so much.

[SWTXBelle]

I wouldn't have thought so yesterday - but it's just odd. Yesterday the news was all about Romney's strategy - and today he pulls out. Maybe he did have a change of heart, and I'm just too cynical.

[nittanyalum]

Oh, god, Huckabee's on Colbert Report, trying to be funny and glib about how McCain shouldn't be assumed the party nominee. I love how this guy keeps trying to come off as "normal". He has a sense of humor, I'll give him that. But his views are way outside the "normal" mainstream, IMO.


ETA: they're playing air hockey with a cut-out puck that looks like Texas... what a guy's guy

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Oh, god, Huckabee's on Colbert Report, trying to be funny and glib about how McCain shouldn't be assumed the party nominee. I love how this guy keeps trying to come off as "normal". He has a sense of humor, I'll give him that. But his views are way outside the "normal" mainstream, IMO.


ETA: they're playing air hockey with a cut-out puck that looks like Texas... what a guy's guy

This is what I used to think about Bush. "Oh, don't worry, the American people won't elect him just because he makes jokes and likes to chainsaw things on his "ranch" in Texas." But I was WRONG.

I worry big time about Huckabee being given the VP running mate job with McCain, in part because of McCain's age. By the time he takes office he would be 72; isn't the avg lifespan of an American male 76? Even if he lived out his first term, he would be a one-term President...leaving Huckabee or Romney to bombard us with campaigning again in 3-4 years.

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

Oh, god, Huckabee's on Colbert Report, trying to be funny and glib about how McCain shouldn't be assumed the party nominee. I love how this guy keeps trying to come off as "normal". He has a sense of humor, I'll give him that. But his views are way outside the "normal" mainstream, IMO.


ETA: they're playing air hockey with a cut-out puck that looks like Texas... what a guy's guy

I can't watch anything that has Huckabee speaking. His voice reminds me of the tele-evangelists my grandmother used to force me to watch on Sunday mornings when I would visit her. She was convinced I was going to hell and thought that watching these people would convert me.

And Huckabee sounds just like them. So I hear Huckabee and I have flashbacks to toxic grandma. 4 years of his voice might just be enough to put me in therapy!

[nittanyalum]

^^^But that fish REEKED from the head in that situation, no doubt about it. And now I'm really done like my other "last" post said, you're starting to "discuss" by question, which I don't think will go down a productive road.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

^^^But that fish REEKED from the head in that situation, no doubt about it. And now I'm really done like my other "last" post said, you're starting to "discuss" by question, which I don't think will go down a productive road.

The hurricane reeked from the head?

You're right, follow up won't be productive in this case.

[skylark]

Okay, so a lot has happened on this thread since I left GC last night.. and I think most of the other posters have done a good job with the criticisms thrown at my post (which I certainly didn't intend to be so controversial).

A couple explanatory things about my post:

Of course its an overstatement. I was (albeit highly unsuccessfully) trying to be dramatic in a funny way, I guess. However, there is truth in every accusation in the post, including the ones you find nutty.

And of course there are other people to blame besides Bush. I honestly don't see why placing blame on one person alleviates blame on another, but if you read that into my post then I'm sorry. That was not my intent. I don't think anyone on here (besides maybe SECDomination) is naive enough to think that one person or one party is the sole source of our problems.

On to some specific issues you raised...

1. Yes, skylark is a she.

2. Governmental branches: I work for one of the branches of government and so yeah, I'm pretty sure I understand their separate functions, but I also understand their influence over each other and the way things (like $ or religion) that corrupt one branch have a tendency to corrupt the others. Also, we may all believe that there SHOULD be limits to executive power, but how much do you want to bet that Bush (and Cheney behind him) doesn't give a rats behind about it? It has pretty much been a blatant goal of Bush/Cheney since they took office to expand the power of the executive. For instance, one of the few checks on the executive is the requirement that treaties be approved by the Senate. So what has Bush done now that he wants to create a treaty with Iraq? He simply gives it a new name without "treaty" in it so he doesn't have to ask for approval. This is just an example, but you get the picture. Bush doesn't care about what boundaries the executive branch SHOULD have.

3. Hurricaine Katrina (this seems to be the one you have the biggest problem with): (A) I've heard several analyses by climate experts that show that there may be a link between increased intensity and frequency in hurricaines and global warming. Bush didn't cause global warming, of course, but how many opportunities has he passed up while in office to try to fix it (Kyoto was the first, I think). Hell, until a year or so ago he wouldn't even acknowledge it. (B) HE is primarily responsible for the slow disaster response because HE appointed the poorly qualified crony that was in charge of FEMA and neglected to monitor the situation enough to sweep in and fix the problem once things started going haywire. Go back to my original post and you'll see my main criticism focuses on the emergency services. These are well within the President's responsibility and power in the executive branch because executive power includes direct authority over all the federal government's agencies.

4. As to health care: did you pay attention at all when Bush shot down a bill because it included national health care for lower-income children which he decided looked too much like socialism?

5. I think the tax cuts have been mostly addressed, but I think it helps to remember that with our national debt, every cut is a loan we take out from our children and grandchildren. And the tax cuts themselves are illusory in some respects because it doesn't even take into account all of the income that the economic elite make on selling stocks. Did you know that Bush cut the taxes on stock-sale income to 15%?! That's a lower rate than I'm sure most of us are getting taxed on our own income. So if you don't think that tax cuts are highly geared toward corporate CEOs and other economically fortunate individuals, I don't know what else to tell you. And I specifically mentioned energy CEOs because energy-related businesses (especially the ones Cheney has ties to) are mysteriously the target of a large percentage of the corporate bail-outs and tax cuts we dole out every year.

Oh yeah, and we should all thank Bush for trying to "fix" social security by privatizing it with all of the "political capital" he had after his reelection. Just like with immigration, if he wasn't so hard-headed and closed to compromising with dems on national policy issues, maybe we'd have at least some limited improvement instead of dealing with the status quo.

Okay.. can we talk about the election again? I'm actually pretty optimistic that a new president could motivate the rest of the country into some meaningful change!

[UGAalum94]

At this point, I'm kind of over it as I'm sure many of you are as well. Everyone who has posted is in agreement that Bush wasn't a particularly good President; we just vary in the degree for which we'd blame him on different issues.

I think it's really important not to let congress off the hook. I'll offer the reminder that Kyoto was signed in a largely symbolic gesture after the Senate refused (in advance) to ratify it during the during the Clinton Presidency. It was never even submitted by the Clinton Administration for ratification. We can say the Clinton Administration had a better attitude about global warming, but we can't really say they got much done, and in this case it was the Senate with the block.

Yes, I did pay attention when the expansion of the children's heath care program was shot down. And to tell you the truth, I support it being shot down. I'm all about health care for children but I think federal programs are the least effective way to guarantee that it's delivered well. Every nice thing that we think we need isn't best addressed by a federal program, IMO, so as heartless as it might seem, in this particular instance, I think Bush acted correctly. If states need to raise taxes to offer expanded children's health services, then they need to bite the bullet and do it themselves. Perhaps they could tax the CEOs.

Although I'm not particularly pro-CEO taxcut, I again tend to think that congress bears a lot of responsibility for the issues of taxing and spending.

If you all want, we can review this issues four years from now and see if we all feel the same way when there's been someone we generally like more than Bush in office for four years. Let's mark our calendars for 2012.

[skylark]

I think that McCain's comment was worse, actually. Pimping, taken literally, might be a bad thing to imply, but I've generally heard the word "pimping" used in everyday conversation to mean something to the effect of "sending someone out to do work for you." McCain's comment was mean spirited, reminiscent of a 3rd grade bully, and completely insensitive towards the gender expectations that both straight and lesbian women have to deal with on a regular basis.

Also, while Shuster's comment was inappropriate as well, his name's not going to be on the ballot this fall.

ETA: Just realized the link is from a comment made 10 years ago (I know, I should RIF). While I'm still a little put off, lord knows in a span of any given 10 years most of us have said things we wish we hadn't.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by skylark

I think that McCain's comment was worse, actually. Pimping, taken literally, might be a bad thing to imply, but I've generally heard the word "pimping" used in everyday conversation to mean something to the effect of "sending someone out to do work for you." McCain's comment was mean spirited, reminiscent of a 3rd grade bully, and completely insensitive towards the gender expectations that both straight and lesbian women have to deal with on a regular basis.

Also, while Shuster's comment was inappropriate as well, his name's not going to be on the ballot this fall.

ETA: Just realized the link is from a comment made 10 years ago (I know, I should RIF). While I'm still a little put off, lord knows in a span of any given 10 years most of us have said things we wish we hadn't.

Awww.....man...McClain has a long, long history footinmouthitis..so just imagine if elected he will keep his PR people busy.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Awww.....man...McClain has a long, long history footinmouthitis..so just imagine if elected he will keep his PR people busy.

Really? Care to post some other examples?

[shinerbock]

McCain is a bitter egomaniac. Then again, I don't vote based on jokes and attitude.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Really? Care to post some other examples?

Sig...you really don't need for me to do that...they are out there and it wouldn't take but 10 mins for anyone to pull them up with links and post.


If you are curious, start with China.