FDA poised to OK food from cloned animals

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While I have no personal knowledge of AKAMonet's educational background, I was simply responding to what I read in her post. She may indeed have just posted that for no other reason than to see the words on the screen, but those words are all I can reply to.

Where did she say that clones spring fully formed from a petri dish, or even imply it?

[CutiePie2000]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

GOOD THING BECAUSE THEY WERE JUST ABOUT TO RUN OUT OF COWS.
Seriously, WTF.

Cloned sushi will look like this:

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by blueangel

So you don't believe in food labeling? You "trust" the FDA to decide what's safe and what isn't? Remember, the FDA said Vioxx was safe.

READ THE POST.

This isn't even close to what I was arguing.

I'm a believer in markets - there, work with that.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

While I have no personal knowledge of AKAMonet's educational background, I was simply responding to what I read in her post. She may indeed have just posted that for no other reason than to see the words on the screen, but those words are all I can reply to.

In her previous post, she noted that she has cloned cells, mice and rats. Even if you didn't know her educational background, that should have been a clue that she understood this topic pretty well.

[AKA_Monet]

I find all of this quite comical..

Thanks Jubilance about my qualifications. I appreciate it. This discussion is not about who knows more it is about misrepresentation regarding facts clearly discussed by several professionals.

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

No one has clearly answered how many different strains of bovine species in the US not including bison and buffalo...

Jersey, Halstein [sp?], Brahma, Rowan, Kobe, Angus, etc.

That's just the short list...

It takes ~5000 steer per year are consumed for food in the US...

And that doesn't include the Veal we get from Hawaii off the Parker Ranch...

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food.

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I find all of this quite comical..

Thanks Jubilance about my qualifications. I appreciate it. This discussion is not about who knows more it is about misrepresentation regarding facts clearly discussed by several professionals.

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

No one has clearly answered how many different strains of bovine species in the US not including bison and buffalo...

Jersey, Halstein [sp?], Brahma, Rowan, Kobe, Angus, etc.

That's just the short list...

It takes ~5000 steer per year are consumed for food in the US...

And that doesn't include the Veal we get from Hawaii off the Parker Ranch...

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food.

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

Anytime chica

As for the underlined: I got $5 that says the majority of GC have no idea what those words even mean, and they have to look them up.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by jubilance1922

Anytime chica

As for the underlined: I got $5 that says the majority of GC have no idea what those words even mean, and they have to look them up.

True, although I'm not sure that should prevent people from talking about this. We have lots of subjects on this site (government/politics, legal, the media) where people don't have much knowledge but still post their opinions.

I do agree with you, though, that where someone has a demonstrated knowledge of a subject, the rest of the posters should respect that knowledge (AKA Monet in science, Delt in TV production, etc.).

[jubilance1922]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

True, although I'm not sure that should prevent people from talking about this. We have lots of subjects on this site (government/politics, legal, the media) where people don't have much knowledge but still post their opinions.

I do agree with you, though, that where someone has a demonstrated knowledge of a subject, the rest of the posters should respect that knowledge (AKA Monet in science, Delt in TV production, etc.).

I wasn't trying to imply that people shouldn't have an opinion, but I do believe that people should have an INFORMED and EDUCATED opinion, which requires more research than reading one biased website or going off what your friend/mom/cousin/professor told you.

Because I am a scientist, I am disappointed with the level of scientific knowledge that the general public has...but that has a lot to do with the educational system in the US which advocates in-depth scientific study only for those who plan a career in that area...But that's a discussion for another thread.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by blueangel

GMO's, the possibility of cloned animals in our food suppy, viruses added to deli meats, bovine hormones, illegal pesticides sprayed on fruit brought in from South America and Mexico is why we should all buy stock in Whole Foods Markets.

there won't be any cloned meat in the food supply, that would be too expensive, the cloned animals are for breeding only

I see no problem with this practice whatsoever....other than obvious economic factors (we can export even less now probably)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

there won't be any cloned meat in the food supply, that would be too expensive, the cloned animals are for breeding only

Playing devil's advocate, because I just don't care either way whether they clone or not:

I have a feeling that the same people that don't want to eat cloned meat, would also have a problem eating the offspring of cloned meat.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Playing devil's advocate, because I just don't care either way whether they clone or not:

I have a feeling that the same people that don't want to eat cloned meat, would also have a problem eating the offspring of cloned meat.

yeah, maybe, but I just wanted to clairify a little.

the people who oppose this probably don't want sick people to ever get better either, because that goes against "God's will" or "Nature"

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

yeah, maybe, but I just wanted to clairify a little.

the people who oppose this probably don't want sick people to ever get better either, because that goes against "God's will" or "Nature"

That's a pretty ridiculous claim to be making.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

the people who oppose this probably don't want sick people to ever get better either, because that goes against "God's will" or "Nature"

Well, I oppose cloning animals for any reason but still think it would be really neat if sick people got better. Soooo, I'd have to disagree with your assertion.

[blueangel]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

It is about supply and demand. The US will not have the meat supply as demand for beef products goes up. It's not just meat or milk. Serum's used, the bonemeal is used, the leather products are used. At least 10+ items are used from the animal. It takes several Federal Agencies to approved use for animal processing...

Can you quote some statistics to back up your allegation? On the contrary, I seem to be finding evidence of a glut of meat -- both chicken and beef on the U.S. market:

"In November, Tyson ended its fiscal year with a third straight quarterly loss, as its chicken and beef businesses were hurt by a glut of meat on the market. Agricultural economists have blamed the meat surplus on a range of factors, including overproduction following high market prices for animals in the past two years."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/4440816.html

The glut drove meat prices down... and as a result, the struggling meat industry is looking at the recent winter storms on the Plains as prompting beef prices to rise next year.

What about the overproduction of milk?

"Carol Tucker Foreman, of the Consumer Federation of America, said U.S. farmers produce more milk than Americans can drink, and the government must buy the surplus. "Since 1999, dairy-support programs have cost taxpayers over $5 billion," she said."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_clone29.html

Actual "ELECTROPORATION" of Enucleated Zygotes with somatic DNA will give us a certain higher yield in the number of animals.

Again.. where are you numbers? The low success rate and the high number of abnormalites in cloned animals not only makes no economic sense, but it is cruel to animals. Further... Did you know that this process will cost an estimated $15,000 per procedure?
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...8_clone29.html

And most of our beef is beginning to get imported from Southeat Asia and South America just like the rest of our food...

There has been much resistance to the idea of consuming cloned meats in much of the world. It would seem to me that instead of being positive for our trade balance, this would be a big negative as other countries will be suspect of the safety of US Food.

Countries like Japan and South Korea have already had or have bans of U.S. meat in place due to bovine spongiform encephalopathy (Mad Cow) worries. In fact in 2006, 21 countries banned the importation of U.S. meat over safety concerns. And you think the U.S. food supply is safe? Apparently, those countries think so.

" According to a recent report to the European Union’s executive arm by the Danish Centre for Bioethics and Risk Assessment, “Groups of citizens, and even some member states, would be likely to resist the import and/or marketing [labeled or unlabeled] of cloned animals and their products.“

"In South Korea, one of the largest export markets for U.S. beef, cloned foods “are not positive“ said Sockjoong Yoon, minister for public affairs at the South Korean Embassy in Washington. Chong Ghee Ahn, the embassy’s economic counselor, said it was too early to say what impact cloning might have on U.S. exports. However, he added that in the wake of mad-cow disease and avian flu, “Korean customers are getting very, very sensitive.“
http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content...ontentid=94274

Regarding South America: Columbia and Peru have only recently reopened importation of U.S. meat after banning it due to Mad Cow concerns. This is not new trade as you imply. In 2003 for example, the U.S. exported a combined total of more than $4 million worth of beef and beef products to Colombia and Peru.
http://www.meatnews.com/index.cfm?fu...e&artNum=12879

Cloning is a way to boost our market share for rare meats and increase the premium. It is not cool as an overall practice, but we live in a capitalistic society and well...

In what way, when there is international resistance to cloned meat products?

Just price out tenderloins or filet mignons... And when is the last time $2 billion business for beef BBQ production can be told ANYTHING BUT NO?

Now you know why they are cloning animals...

Actually, meat prices are lower due to the glut of beef and chicken on the market. Again, please see the first article I quoted regarding Tyson's profits falling.

The bottom line... the safety of cloned meat is still in question.

The nonprofit advocacy group the Center for Food Safety in Washington, D.C., cited a number of health and safety problems related to cloned livestock that the group says the agency has not properly addressed.

People eating cloned meat would be exposed to higher amounts of animal hormones, related to the cloning process, the group says.

The animals themselves would suffer from the high incidence of disease and birth defects currently recorded in cloned animals.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...ed-meat_2.html

And this from a news release I received fromThe Center for Food Safety:
“When they deny us mandatory labels, they don’t just deny us the right to choose,” said Andrew Kimbrell, executive director of the Center for Food Safety.

“They also deny our health professionals the ability to trace potential toxic or allergic reactions to this food,” Kimbrell said. “It’s bad enough they’re making us guinea pigs. But when we have health effects, we won’t be able to trace it.”

I don't choose to be the FDA's guinea pig. Do you?

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Can you quote some statistics to back up your allegation? On the contrary, I seem to be finding evidence of a glut of meat -- both chicken and beef on the U.S. market:

There's a big glut of lots of products on the market. Know why? Government pays subsidies to farmers to create the extra product.
Then, when it doesn't sell, it gets dumped on poor struggling third world countries to sell instead.