Advice to rushers: re: legacies

[33girl]

Originally posted by alum
Extrapolating what has been written by some of the women who are experiencing today's recruitments as moms, it sounds as if it is more difficult if you are a legacy. Therefore, I may have had a better chance going through rush as a non-legacy at a competitive school which is the opposite of what you claim.

Not really.

Because sometimes if you are a legacy and don't put that down, then you get nothing at all. It's all in the way you want to gamble: do you 1) want to put down that you're a legacy and basically get stuck with that group (which of course is ok if you like them) or 2) don't put it down and risk getting cut by everyone, since the groups have to take care of as many legs as they can first.

[carnation]

What might work is to make sure that only the chapters the PNM is a legacy to would find that out. On their recruitment applications, they would not note that they're legacies but they would make sure through recs that their legacy chapter knows they are. Obviously, only PNMs on certain campuses would have to do this.

Let's say that my next daughters rush at a smaller college like Birmingham Southern. We would note that they are legacies to 4 of the 6 chapters there because at that campus, it might help. If they rush at colleges that have none of their legacy chapters, we would also put on the applications that they are quadruple legacies. But if they rush at an SEC school? Their legacy status will not be noted because we know, both from personal experience and that of at least 20 PNMs in recent years, that it will only hurt them. It will very likely cause them to be cut from numerous chapters right off and if their legacy chapters cut them too, they're sunk.

[honeychile]

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but could a standard recruitment form be used, then, if the PNM was a legacy to (I'm thinking of the Carnation Nation here) PiPhi, AOII, ZTA, ChiO - each of those chapters would receive the form with an "L" on it?

So, every chapter gets the same form - name, address, GPA, etc, etc. - but on the form that goes to PiPhi, AOII, ZTA, and ChiO, an "L" will appear? It would then be up to the Mother/Sister/Grandmother to supply the rec DIRECTLY TO THE CHAPTER, to show how this woman is a legacy?

[carnation]

There are campuses where Panhellenic tries to limit legacy information only to the legacy chapters but I'm told it often fails. Somehow the information seems to get out.

I'm thinking of a girl I know who rushed at a medium-sized university last fall. She was an in-house legacy and had always been in her sister's shadow. She was an outstanding PNM in every way and she wanted to pledge a different chapter from her sister--to be on her own, for once, even though her parents had pressured her to attend her sister's school because it would make it easier all around.

She was cut by everybody except her legacy chapter and one of the much smaller groups right off. Recruitment was immediately not much fun...she only had 2 parties to go to while her dorm friends were attending a lot. She knew she'd be pledging her legacy group because the second group, which is really struggling, wasn't an option.

Now she's in her legacy group and is kind of happy but she's back in her sister's shadow.

Honeychile, I like your idea-- if only Panhellenics would go for it. Right now I think they use legacy info to decide who to cut early on since most groups have to cut so heavily.

[alum]

I would think that since the recruitment registration is computerized by registering online, it would a simple thing to program. Many documents are generated on a need to know basis with additional information going to those "flagged" individuals.

[CarolinaCutie]

ICS could easily be programmed in that way. As of now, the potential new member profiles indicate legacy status to all chapters, but there is also a separate section that indicates your specific chapter's legacies. So just make it a "blind item" that doesn't show up on the profiles, but something that only shows on individual chapter legacy lists.

[dakareng]

This might be radical, but after reading all this comments I have several thoughts (and this is from the perspective of aa adviser)

What if the forms just asked "is your mother/ sister in a NPC sorority, but did not ask which one, nor give the space to fill it in?

It would be up to the mother/ sister/ grandmother to send the proper forms to the chapter. Do all of the chapters need to know that PMN 42 is a legacy to ABC? No, only ABC does... but as we know, if the information is on the form, it doesn't always get adequately hidden. Why even have it on the form to begin with? I can understand why PMNs at some schools choose not to disclose the information if it will hurt their chance but then we are in a way encouraging them to be deceptive. If all they had to say was "yes, my mother is in a sorority", would that have the same detrimental effect?

As an advisor, I loved having multiple legacies to multiple groups... those parents understood housing requirements/ dues/ and the time issues. We wanted them, and rushed them hard (and while that was a midwestern school, it was competitive, with new member classes of 40-50). A first generation greek did not always have the same family support and we had more issues with dropouts.

[alum]

It sounds as if its tougher to get into the GLO of one's choice than into the Ivy League. I am so NOT looking forward to this next year!

[jwright25]

Originally posted by dakareng
It would be up to the mother/ sister/ grandmother to send the proper forms to the chapter.

I would love this, but, ah if only.... We have many PNMs who indicate legacy status, but we don't receive the paperwork. We do verify through the sorority's member search on the website or through Executive Office before considering the woman a legacy. Sometimes we pledge that legacy. and she says "Oh, my mom had no idea she was supposed to send in a form!" And what if the mother / sister / grandmother is deceased?

There's just no way that everyone is going to agree on what an appropriate legacy policy should be. We released three legacies this year but did not call the family members, as we have never been instructed that that is our policy. In fact, one sister protested the release (which was done properly and with the appropriate permissions) by contacting our District Recruitment Director. The DRD and our Province Director decided that it was best handled by International Officers rather than by someone who was too close to the situation - even when I offered to call and speak with her. I know that my collegians made the right decision on all three legacies, and their behavior since recruitment has only validated the releases.

I have a question for those who believe all legacies should be offered a bid regardless of what the chapter thinks. And I do not mean this question disrespectfully, but rather in asking advice for how to handle this situation should it arise in the future. If your daughter or sister is released by her legacy chapter for standards reasons - i.e., she has been seen drinking heavily, using illegal drugs, acting promiscuously - what should I tell you as the advisor who calls to inform you of the release? And what should I tell you if she was released because she was acting snobby and telling everyone in the chapter - as well as other chapters and PNMs that she is "definitely going ADPi" cause she's a legacy and legacies are automatic bids? These are situations that I have encountered. In both of these cases, the family member has complained, threatened to cut ties, and wondered loudly (and rudely) where all the respect has gone. One alumna insisted that her sister was just the most fabulous thing going - an opinion that was not shared by one single active collegian. Sometimes love is (and should be) blind. Peers witness things that others don't.

I understand that alumnae want to share their sisterhood with their relatives. And since I do not have a sister or daughter, I admit that I cannot understand these feelings. Also as alumnae, we must respect and trust our sisters to make appropriate decisions that will affect THEM. We don't have to understand it or like it, but we have to respect it. If being in your sorority is that important, transfer the PNM to a university where recruitment is not quite as cut-throat. If being Greek and experiencing sisterhood is most important, encourage her to consider her other options. Luckily, the three we released found a place to call home and have ironically become a close little group.

[irishpipes]

Originally posted by jwright25

I have a question for those who believe all legacies should be offered a bid regardless of what the chapter thinks. And I do not mean this question disrespectfully, but rather in asking advice for how to handle this situation should it arise in the future. If your daughter or sister is released by her legacy chapter for standards reasons - i.e., she has been seen drinking heavily, using illegal drugs, acting promiscuously - what should I tell you as the advisor who calls to inform you of the release? And what should I tell you if she was released because she was acting snobby and telling everyone in the chapter - as well as other chapters and PNMs that she is "definitely going ADPi" cause she's a legacy and legacies are automatic bids? These are situations that I have encountered. In both of these cases, the family member has complained, threatened to cut ties, and wondered loudly (and rudely) where all the respect has gone. One alumna insisted that her sister was just the most fabulous thing going - an opinion that was not shared by one single active collegian. Sometimes love is (and should be) blind. Peers witness things that others don't.

I am not sure what our adviser said when/if she made those calls, but I was under the impression that membership selection is totally confidential, and that includes alumnae. I would envision a polite conversation of, "Unfortunately I am calling as a courtesy to you to inform you that AB Chapter has released your daughter. I am sure you understand that MS cannot be discussed, and we wish your daughter well." I don't see what else could be said without violating the secrecy of MS. I can certainly imagine LOTS of other things being said on the other end of the line, but not from the chapter.

[AnonAlumna]

I've been giving this more thought, since I do have a daughter. Like many situations, I just don't think you can truly gauge how you're going to feel or react until it happens to you!

I do believe that legacies should be given an extra consideration, but I do not believe that offering them bids should be the 'End All' of their recruitment. What if there were a separate 'party' before formal recruitment began, and legacies could attend to get an initial feel for the party. I think that one thing that may hurt the relative, is that they KNOW how quick rush is and how it is hard to make a truly valid personality decision based on a few minutes of time. This way, when rush actually started, both sides would have a better idea if the legacy chapter/PNM was really worth the effort.

We all know that there sorority women who didn't go to there legacy chapter, and the same can be said for those that did. Further, nothing will truly change until chapters are taught to give EVERYONE the benefit of the doubt...legacy or not. For the really big competitive schools, this would probably be easier said than done.

[adpiucf]

Regarding legacies-- I look at this with the same regard I might take to a current employee's nephew or daughter applying to another branch of the company or a satellite office. You're going to give them some extra consideration out of respect for their relative and their relative's reputation. But aside from that, you have to evaluate the person and see if they're a good fit. Sure it will sting if your kid doesn't get the job.

Being a legacy gets your foot in the door at your legacy house; it shouldn't be an instant ticket to pass Go and collect $200.

We're aware that advertising legacy status can hurt at recruitment; so get legacy recs for your chapter and don't name names on your recruitment application or at non legacy sororities.

I'm not trying to make light of anyone's feelings and I can only imagine how it would hurt for your sorority to cut your daughter or for her to get cut by another chapter because of her legacy house. But I am trying to understand the bigger picture-- I think our daughters, sisters and granddaughters should be happy and the best fit possible for any organization they join.

My 2 cents...

[WLFEO]

Forgive me if this is a repeat....I admit I have scanned the thread but not read every page in-depth...... but I'd like to bring up the question--------

Are all legacies created equal?

In my opinion, they are not.

Many alumnae have not been active in their GLO since they graduated, but now that they have a daughter/sister/grandaughter going through recruitment, they want priority for them.

But what about the alumnae who have stayed active? They are members of alumnae associations, have served as a volunteer for the the sorority in some capacity (advisor, AA officer, task force, national officer, etc.)? Shouldn't their daughter be given a little more consideration?

One of the chapters I work with had a PNM just last month during formal recruitment tell them, "I just found out my mom is an ADPi!" and she was so excited about it. But I was thinking, "How could your mom not mention the fact that she is an ADPi for the first 18 years of your life?"

Of course the argument could be made that if the sorority pledges the legacy, it might be more incentive for the mother/sister/grandmother to become active as an alumna- maybe her interest will be sparked.

With the new release figures, some chapters have to make some tough decision about legacies early on in the process. It's not fun for anybody.

[33girl]

Originally posted by WLFEO
Are all legacies created equal?

In my opinion, they are not.

Many alumnae have not been active in their GLO since they graduated, but now that they have a daughter/sister/grandaughter going through recruitment, they want priority for them.

But what about the alumnae who have stayed active? They are members of alumnae associations, have served as a volunteer for the the sorority in some capacity (advisor, AA officer, task force, national officer, etc.)? Shouldn't their daughter be given a little more consideration?

One of the chapters I work with had a PNM just last month during formal recruitment tell them, "I just found out my mom is an ADPi!" and she was so excited about it. But I was thinking, "How could your mom not mention the fact that she is an ADPi for the first 18 years of your life?"

Of course the argument could be made that if the sorority pledges the legacy, it might be more incentive for the mother/sister/grandmother to become active as an alumna- maybe her interest will be sparked.

I would hope more chapters would espouse the latter way of thinking.

To say that a national officer's daughter should get more consideration than Nancy Normal Member's daughter just reeks of "if you aren't on the inside you don't matter in this organization." Things like this get around, and it does NOT make a good impression on alum membership in general - considering the majority is composed of Nancy Normal Members. Not to mention that the national officer's daughter might be a horrible fit for the chapter at the school she's attending and/or want nothing to do with them.

[radioZTA]

I used to think legacies were not that big a deal until I had a daughter. Since I am an (overly) active alumna, Meg has gone to many Zeta meetings with me and for a while believed that she was already a member. When she was 5, I told her that she might not be a Zeta someday or might not want to be one. She started crying and said, "Please, Mommy, please let me be a Zeta!"

I hope she still feels the same way at 18 (She is now 9) and that the chapter feels the same way about her. I would love for her to be a Zeta but if she attends a Texas school, she faces the very real possibility of being cut during a competitive Recruitment. I would be sad not to be able to share Zeta with her but would support her choice.

Her goal right now is to attend Yale and start a Zeta chapter there. She scares me some times.