How Can We Maximize Greek Membership?

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by ADqtPiMel
I would honestly say that at my school, unless a PNM is released for grades, she will almost always receive a bid. I have a hard time being sympathetic to girls at Miami who don't get a bid, because the vast majority of the time, they deemed themselves too good for certain chapters.

That's how it is here at Kent as well, those who didn't get a bid were either extremely creepy (you get one or 2 of those every year) OR they felt they were too good for the groups that DID invite them back, in which case I say CRY ME A RIVER.

[TxGirl]

Originally posted by JocelynC
Wow. This is interesting. I don't think it's right for Panhellenic to go calling saying "Will you take this woman because if someone doesn't, she'll go bidless?" How does Panhellenic know that this woman wasn't a rude, snobby, brat at alot of the parties? I think it's fine if a chapter CHOOSES to go back and snap bid someone, but having someone call and ask just seems like they're trying to place women just for the sake of placing them somewhere with no regard to the chapter personal feelings about the woman. But then again, the chapter does have the right to decline...

This wouldn't be to get a bid, but to make it to the next round. Say she was released by all chapters after the first invitational round- so no invites for the 2nd invitational. They might call to see if anyone would be interested in inviting her back (the stipulation is that she is usually "free" - i.e. not included in their release figure). If they released her b/c she was a snob/rude/brat or, as was the case one year, said F*@K every other work, then they don't push.

They're just try to keep her in if possible and give her another chance with the chapters. Maybe other chapters released her b/c she was a double XYZ leg, but XYZ released her b/c she didn't have grades. Since we don't know who is releasing who, this could easily happen.

[33girl]

Originally posted by PhoenixAzul
this is the MASSIVE problem with defferred recruitment. While it is a blessing that we get to see their college grades and know them a little better...it also means they've had 3 months to listen to every little piece of gossip by non members and members alike, and that's a problem.

But the silver lining in that is, when they HAVE heard all the stupid rumors and gossip and decide they want to be in your group anyway, you know they want to be with you for you.

[Drolefille]

(I scanned the thread but didn't read everything so if this was already mentioned, please forgive)

On SLU's campus the biggest problem is suiciding. For clarification, this is where, instead of listing a top three, the PNM only puts her number one. So, if she doesn't recieve a bid from XYZ, for whatever reason, she doesn't get any bid. Last year we had a ridiculous number of people suicide. Our Pi Chis (Panhel. Counsellors) had apparently underemphasized the importance of actually ranking your top three, even if you're not sure about 2 and 3. (Btw, we have 5 sororities, the nights go 5,5,3,2, Bid Day)

Anyway, we got lucky, a lot of girls suicided us, and they're fantastic members... but it can go very wrong.

[dznat187]

at my undergrad school, pretty much every girl who wants to go greek can. i have never heard of a girl who rushed and preffed who hasn't gotten a bid.

i think a large part of the problem is that many sorority women don't understand that we are a group and we should try to get as many women as possible to go greek. once they decide to go greek, then we should work to fit each of these women into an org that they will be comfortable in AND that they will be able to bring their individuality and skills to.

[Adelphean]

You know, I think it's great to be Panhellenically minded. I also think we should support other Greeks and all that jazz/. However, at the end of the day, I'm still and ADPi and you or that person is still an xyz. First and foremost I support my organization, and SECOND, the greek system as a whole. It's important to remember that PNMs are dropped for a reason. If someone winds up bidless, I'm sorry, but that is life. I think it's wrong to "place" or "ask" (read: beg) a house to reconsider, just so girl can get a bid. If quota is 20, I'm going to give bids to the top 20 on my list. If all those girls accept their bid then number 21 on my list is out of luck. It's mutual selection, I have to want her and I want her to want me. All this talk about "everyone should get a bid" makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If everyone could join whatever house they wanted what would be the point in bids or even Recruitment for that matter?

[dgdramadawg]

Originally posted by Adelphean
All this talk about "everyone should get a bid" makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If everyone could join whatever house they wanted what would be the point in bids or even Recruitment for that matter?

I don't think that everyone should get a bid, either. The Greek system should be selective to a point, when it comes to grades, involvement, etc. From my perspective, I think the problem is that there are women who are worthy of letters who end up bidless... especially at huge recruitments with 1400 PNMs, some great girls fall through the cracks because you can only remember so many girls. It's not that EVERY single girl in the world deserves a bid, or that every girl deserves her favorite house, BUT I think we need to do what we can to (a) help girls not fall through the cracks and (b) help girls remember to consider every house.

[33girl]

Originally posted by Adelphean
It's important to remember that PNMs are dropped for a reason. If someone winds up bidless, I'm sorry, but that is life. I think it's wrong to "place" or "ask" (read: beg) a house to reconsider, just so girl can get a bid. If quota is 20, I'm going to give bids to the top 20 on my list. If all those girls accept their bid then number 21 on my list is out of luck. It's mutual selection, I have to want her and I want her to want me. All this talk about "everyone should get a bid" makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If everyone could join whatever house they wanted what would be the point in bids or even Recruitment for that matter?

Amen.

I don't care if quota was 50 and we had 10...if we were asked by Panhel to reconsider a girl we had previously dropped I think I would tell them to go poop in their hat.

That's not being Panhellenic, that's being condescending to the girl in question and INCREDIBLY condescending to the sorority who gets the "oh poor XYZ doesn't have enough members, they will take anything" treatment.

Now if down the road the girl re-rushes or goes to COB events and we like her then, that's a different matter. That's our idea, not Panhel's.

[TxGirl]

The places where PNM's are guaranteed a bid require them to go to the maximum number of events each round. If they don't maximize their options then they aren't guaranteed a place.

What it amounts to is that if quota is 20 with guaranteed placement instead of getting 20 you might get 30. All of these women would have come to your pref party - which means per NPC rules they must be on your bid list somewhere. You were willing to give them a bid b/c you invited them to pref and put them on your bid list - so why would you then decide you don't want them when basically they are "free"????

I think the last three posts are talking about a different situation than guarnateed placement. I made mention earlier of CPH calling to see if people would reinvite a woman that was released out of recruitment all together. As I said in a later post, this was for early rounds - NOT for pref. I will add now that I've NEVER heard of a CPH calling to try to get a PNM invited to pref after all chapters had released her and DEFINATELY not an actual bid. In reality guaranteed placement just quota addition without a limit. Quota addition is - I think - 5% of quota. So, in our 20 person situation you could get 1 quota addtion - with guaranteed placement there is no limit.

My problem with guaranteed placement is that it lets the big to get bigger and causes the small to stay small. It is not guaranteed to make all chapters hit quota, just to place more PNMs. So, unless you make quota, it doesn't help you. That being said, guaranteed placement combined with the new release figures may work better. With those who historically better return rates having to release more women, in theory, there should be less that are no bids (meaning less placed through quota addtion or guaranteed placement).

[33girl]

Originally posted by TxGirl
I think the last three posts are talking about a different situation than guarnateed placement. I made mention earlier of CPH calling to see if people would reinvite a woman that was released out of recruitment all together. As I said in a later post, this was for early rounds - NOT for pref. I will add now that I've NEVER heard of a CPH calling to try to get a PNM invited to pref after all chapters had released her and DEFINATELY not an actual bid.

Thanks for clearing that up.

That's not quite as bad, but it should be a request made of all sororities, not just the ones with lower numbers.

[TxGirl]

Originally posted by Adelphean
You know, I think it's great to be Panhellenically minded. I also think we should support other Greeks and all that jazz/. However, at the end of the day, I'm still and ADPi and you or that person is still an xyz. First and foremost I support my organization, and SECOND, the greek system as a whole. It's important to remember that PNMs are dropped for a reason. If someone winds up bidless, I'm sorry, but that is life. I think it's wrong to "place" or "ask" (read: beg) a house to reconsider, just so girl can get a bid. If quota is 20, I'm going to give bids to the top 20 on my list. If all those girls accept their bid then number 21 on my list is out of luck. It's mutual selection, I have to want her and I want her to want me. All this talk about "everyone should get a bid" makes ABSOLUTELY no sense to me. If everyone could join whatever house they wanted what would be the point in bids or even Recruitment for that matter?

What many don't understand is that for some greek systems, being Panhellenically minded is the only thing that will save them. I have seen this many places. At my initiating chapter our system lost 3 chapters in 5 years, our recruitment numbers went from 1600 to 600 and a couple chapters have been on the brink of closing for sevaral years.

WHY???

Because we had one of the "toughest" recruitemnts. Recruitment was so cut-throat that women would go to other colleges, pledge a chapter that we had and then transfer in after they were inititated. Everyone was thinking only about themselves and what happened? The whole system was weakened and is only now starting to recover after about 10 years. Numbers have still not gotten back to 1000 and this is the largest public school in the nation.

A system that I'm working with right now can't understand why they are dying. No one is at total - which was recently lowered, they have no support from the University and soon they won't be able to fill their houses b/c they all sleep more than total. They have fewer and fewer women signing up for recruitment. Of course since it's just as easy (or maybe easier) to get a COB, why go through recruitment. Only one chapter will not be able to COB after recruitment. Why is this, because they don't play nice in the sandbox. They don't show any unity, they don't do any positive PR as a group, they can't figure out that if they don't help each other many of them won't be around much longer.

So, being Panhellenicly minded can truly help your system. Now, I'm not saying you have to be so to the extent that you hurt your own chapter. I don't think thats the spirit of it. But, really, there are some things that stronger chapters could do that would help weaker chapters. They just don't want to. Why, who knows for sure. Could be b/c they don't want to break "tradition" or be the one that makes change.

Think about the new release figure method (FRM). All chapters that do formal recruitment are required to use it by 2006. Its aim is to help all chapters, help more women get bids, make our chapters and systems bigger, even the playing field, break fewer hearts (ours and theirs). Why wouldn't you want to try it???? Because it's a change. I've found that my 85 year old grandmother is more receptive to change than some 19 year old chapter members. Because things have "always" been done a certain way they don't want to change things - I would imagine this is why NPC is REQUIRING everyone switch to this by next year.

I think being Panehllenically minded is more about being open to new ideas and actually THINKING about the greek system as a whole.

I now jump down off my soap box.

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by TxGirl
What many don't understand is that for some greek systems, being Panhellenically minded is the only thing that will save them. I have seen this many places. At my initiating chapter our system lost 3 chapters in 5 years, our recruitment numbers went from 1600 to 600 and a couple chapters have been on the brink of closing for sevaral years.

WHY???

Because we had one of the "toughest" recruitemnts. Recruitment was so cut-throat that women would go to other colleges, pledge a chapter that we had and then transfer in after they were inititated. Everyone was thinking only about themselves and what happened? The whole system was weakened and is only now starting to recover after about 10 years. Numbers have still not gotten back to 1000 and this is the largest public school in the nation.

A system that I'm working with right now can't understand why they are dying. No one is at total - which was recently lowered, they have no support from the University and soon they won't be able to fill their houses b/c they all sleep more than total. They have fewer and fewer women signing up for recruitment. Of course since it's just as easy (or maybe easier) to get a COB, why go through recruitment. Only one chapter will not be able to COB after recruitment. Why is this, because they don't play nice in the sandbox. They don't show any unity, they don't do any positive PR as a group, they can't figure out that if they don't help each other many of them won't be around much longer.

So, being Panhellenicly minded can truly help your system. Now, I'm not saying you have to be so to the extent that you hurt your own chapter. I don't think thats the spirit of it. But, really, there are some things that stronger chapters could do that would help weaker chapters. They just don't want to. Why, who knows for sure. Could be b/c they don't want to break "tradition" or be the one that makes change.

Think about the new release figure method (FRM). All chapters that do formal recruitment are required to use it by 2006. Its aim is to help all chapters, help more women get bids, make our chapters and systems bigger, even the playing field, break fewer hearts (ours and theirs). Why wouldn't you want to try it???? Because it's a change. I've found that my 85 year old grandmother is more receptive to change than some 19 year old chapter members. Because things have "always" been done a certain way they don't want to change things - I would imagine this is why NPC is REQUIRING everyone switch to this by next year.

I think being Panehllenically minded is more about being open to new ideas and actually THINKING about the greek system as a whole.

I now jump down off my soap box.

It is funny, that You should Bring this up with Your Great Post.

There seems to be so many inequities with Sororitys and the Number of Women that can or would join but because of situations and circumstances dont.

So and so is the best and "I" want to be with the best.

Do any of You know any Really Bad Sororitys that are Bad?

Of course not. There are Chapters that , may be lower for many reasons, not because they are bad people.

We all run throught cycles of Good and Bad. You aint on top all of the time. Forever is a very long time!

Why not join a well known Sorority that is on the downs and outs and make a difference?

[dznat187]

thanks tom. i totallty agree. a small chapter doesn't mean they suck or noone wants to join them. its just that alot of women want to join the most popular and biggest group.

my chapter had 6 when i joined, thats right 6, not 60, just 6. that was in FA03. at the end of spring we had 18 and now have 12. we made the most dramatic change on our campus and increased our size the most. plus we had top grades, most service, and huge campus involvement. are women now seeing us as a great sorority? probably not, because we are not at total (45) and are not out partying. the administration, faculty and other many greeks think we are doing great. members of one of the larger sororities also supported us and gave us suggestions for rush and were genuinely excited for us when we got 9 new members this spring. that is what being panhellenically minded is. they didn't help us because they are so good and we aren't. they just brought in some new ideas. and we gave them some too, it really works out well. we don't have to physically rush for smaller groups or thhrow leftovers their way. its mostly the need for moral support and idea exchange. each group has somethign different to offer and that is what is going to get them new members (in a perfect world) and not the actual activities or stuff they have or even a reputation.

our campus does formal way difefrently than most groups here, so i really can't say much about the formal rush side of this discussion. we work mostly in COBing.

[Aphigal]

I will add now that I've NEVER heard of a CPH calling to try to get a PNM invited to pref after all chapters had released her and DEFINATELY not an actual bid.

Unfortunately it does exist like this at Tufts University in MA. Its called Generally Assured Bidding. If a woman is released from all chapters the panhellenic reinvites her to all chapters. The pnm never knows she was released from all groups and picks her top two to pref at (and generally drops the weaker 3rd house - there are only 3)

Then at bid matching no one puts her on their bid list. All the advisors get to sit around and decide who will end up taking whom, until all women (who maximized their opportunities during rush) are placed. Its great fun. NOT.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by Aphigal



Then at bid matching no one puts her on their bid list. All the advisors get to sit around and decide who will end up taking whom, until all women (who maximized their opportunities during rush) are placed. Its great fun. NOT.

Who put this policy in place? I never even knew NPC had a Generally Assured Bidding recruitment strategy or is this something imposed by the school to make things "fair"? I don't think this is right. Seriously, we do want to have higher (80-90%) placement rates, but that's just overkill. It's inevitable that some girls just WILL NOT get placed and it's just not right to force a chapter to take someone they DO NOT WANT. I can imagine a chapter's attitude toward a woman that they dropped being basically plopped into their chapter on Bid Day.

Aphigal- Do they have to PLACE EVERYONE? Has there ever been a girl that you just CAN'T get placed because no one will agree to take her?