Pacers/Pistons game

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Originally posted by KSig RC
I've made it perfectly clear that I'm referring only to Detroit sports fans, not the city as a whole, and that there are a minority that give me that impression/opinion.

I'm not pissing on the city of Detroit here, but the fans deserve as much fault as the players. Some fans got unlucky and were caught in a melee, but I'm sure they'll be compensated (whether fairly or not is up for discussion), but others deserved any ass kicking that was doled out.

That is not even cool to call the "Detroit Fans" hoodlems. You are in the wrong there! Because I am a Detroit Fan, and I am far from a hoodlem. You can't make an assumption because a FEW people fuck up at a FEW games and make some stupid mistakes. So like Sunny is saying, and everyone else is saying, stop calling the fans hoodlems and making that assumption when you know nothing!

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Originally posted by hottytoddy
OK well my post was quoted. I wasn't trying to disrespect you. So please specify who you are talking to.

The NBA needs to come up with something that will help keep the players more seperated from the fans.. I know players are taunted a lot. When my boyfriend and I went to a Cubs game he & his friend were yelling things at a Florida player...but they were all joke comments like "Get a haircut- you have the money. It's ok though I'll still keep you on my fantasy team" But they weren't throwing things. Ad the guy they were yelling things at was laughing. I'm just saying if I had been Artest and someone had thrown something at me I may have had a hard time just sitting there and pretending it didn't happen...and I'm not even an angry person. I don't think that these fans should be able to sue the players involved. They were begging for it. They were taunting him to get a reaction. And they got one.

see that is where you are wrong. The players have every right to sue. The guy that got hit by Artest did not even throw the cup of beer at Artest, and he was only 19 years old. And how about the old lady that got pushed onto the court by the fight, and then got piled on like she was the QB in a football game? Now I can understand the fans that were thwoing punches at the players, they shouldn't be able to sue, and they aren't...they are getting sued. But the innocent people should have every right to sue. So you are so wrong when you say the fans have no right to sue!

[kddani]

Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.
Just because someone's isn't the same as yours doesn't mean they're wrong. They're entitled to have an opinion.
Name calling and cursing do no help boost the credibility of your opinion.

[AGDee]

Updates:

They will be charging anybody they can identify who threw cups or punches with assault and battery (a misdemeanor). They are charging the man who threw the chair with felonious assault. Not to mention, they are showing them on TV over and over, publicly announcing some names (resulting in media parking on their doorsteps) and asking people to identify certain participants so that they can charge them.

The one guy they've identified, John Green, from West Bloomfield, who lobbed the cup of beer at Artest is a season ticket holder and has quite a record:
2003 -- Operating under the influence of liquor/operating while visibly impaired (second offense)

1989 -- Assault with intent to do great bodily harm less than murder

1989 -- Escape from prison

1986 -- Carrying concealed weapons

1986 -- Uttering and publishing, which is using a false, forged, altered or counterfeit record, deed or instrument to injure or defraud.

Despite all this, he lives in the wealthiest community in Michigan. Go figure.

Also, from Auburn Hills police:

Gorcyca said the investigation will begin with Green, but the prosecutor's office is expected to announce charges against 25 to 50 other fans who participated in the fight at The Palace.

Gorcyca said anyone who threw a cup or a punch -- including players and fans -- could face criminal charges.

"The throwing of an object and striking someone constitutes an assault," said Gorcyca.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by starang21
a punch can only go so far from the cheap seats.

What?





Dee--- Doesn't it make you proud to know that Auburn Hills is properly and fairly taking care of this situation? Wow, what awesome hoodlums we are!

[hottytoddy]

Originally posted by SigmaNuPhi4Life
see that is where you are wrong. The players have every right to sue. The guy that got hit by Artest did not even throw the cup of beer at Artest, and he was only 19 years old. And how about the old lady that got pushed onto the court by the fight, and then got piled on like she was the QB in a football game? Now I can understand the fans that were thwoing punches at the players, they shouldn't be able to sue, and they aren't...they are getting sued. But the innocent people should have every right to sue. So you are so wrong when you say the fans have no right to sue!

The guy that threw the cup at Artest was throwing punches at him when he came in the stands...and he has a criminal record--and was not supposed to drink as a condition of his probation. But I mean seriously the guy that he ended up beating on may not have been the one to throw the cup but I highly doubt that he is 100% innocent. I have a feeling he had been talking shit the whole game. There was some reason Artest thought it was specifically that guy, at least in my opinion. I'm not sure I'd rule him out as an innocent bystander just yet.

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Originally posted by kddani
Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has one.
Just because someone's isn't the same as yours doesn't mean they're wrong. They're entitled to have an opinion.
Name calling and cursing do no help boost the credibility of your opinion.

yeah well he is making an assumption that is totally wrong. Just because a FEW people start stuff at Detroit Games (and its not even ALL Detroit games) does not make ALL of Detroit Fans hoodlums...he was wrong for saying that

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Originally posted by hottytoddy
The guy that threw the cup at Artest was throwing punches at him when he came in the stands...and he has a criminal record--and was not supposed to drink as a condition of his probation. But I mean seriously the guy that he ended up beating on may not have been the one to throw the cup but I highly doubt that he is 100% innocent. I have a feeling he had been talking shit the whole game. There was some reason Artest thought it was specifically that guy, at least in my opinion. I'm not sure I'd rule him out as an innocent bystander just yet.

So what if he was talking shit at the game. You can't sit here and tell me that you don't go to sporting events and talk shit about the other players. Its doesn't even matter if he was talking shit though, Artest could not have possibly heard it. If you watched the fight, the guy that Artest attacked first still had a cup in his hand...so Artest just went for the first person he saw. It doesn't matter if Artest thought he was the guy or not. He did not need to go off like he did and hit a fan. You don't see our players hitting Pacer's fans because they "talk shit". There was no reason for Artest to hit that guy! I never said the guy that threw the cup should sue, I am saying the guy that Artest attacked, who didn't throw the cup, deserves to sue! He didn't deserve to get attacked cause some other ass hole threw a cup!

[AGDee]

Originally posted by hottytoddy
The guy that threw the cup at Artest was throwing punches at him when he came in the stands...and he has a criminal record--and was not supposed to drink as a condition of his probation. But I mean seriously the guy that he ended up beating on may not have been the one to throw the cup but I highly doubt that he is 100% innocent. I have a feeling he had been talking shit the whole game. There was some reason Artest thought it was specifically that guy, at least in my opinion. I'm not sure I'd rule him out as an innocent bystander just yet.

Watch the tapes. Watch the tapes over and over. You will see that the guy he beat on first had done nothing. The one who threw the beer did it very discreetly and then put his hands in his pockets and looked around, acting innocent. From where Artest was laying, he couldn't see who had done it at all. The police reports state that Artest grabbed the guy, started hitting him saying "Did you throw it? Did you throw it?" There were witnesses. Why is it inconceivable that with a crowd and chaos like that, he would pick the wrong guy to suspect?

[PM_Mama00]

Originally posted by AGDee
Watch the tapes. Watch the tapes over and over. You will see that the guy he beat on first had done nothing. The one who threw the beer did it very discreetly and then put his hands in his pockets and looked around, acting innocent. From where Artest was laying, he couldn't see who had done it at all. The police reports state that Artest grabbed the guy, started hitting him saying "Did you throw it? Did you throw it?" There were witnesses. Why is it inconceivable that with a crowd and chaos like that, he would pick the wrong guy to suspect?

Because even tho there is video evidence, some people can't get it through their heads that this guy is a total jackass. I don't think people are watching the same video that we're seeing in Detroit--- the whole video.

I saw on local news today that Artest was on the Today Show and he said that this is the third time he's had stuff thrown at him. The other two WERE NOT in Detroit. So I guess Cleveland and the other place it happened.... well their fans are hoodlums too, right?

[AGDee]

Given the guy's record (the one who threw the beer), I suppose he DOES qualify as a hoodlem! Are they going to have to do background checks on season ticket holders to make sure they have no past assaults, prison breaks or DUIs? LOL

Honestly, they are showing this on the news so much that I decided not to watch the news for a few days anymore. Every day, more videos, more "exclusive" interviews with various parties, more videos, new videos, exclusive videos. Enough already! It almost glorifies it.

However, the humiliation factor for the "most wanted" related to the incident is HUGE! Imagine your face plastered all over every newspaper and broadcast asking for people to identify who you are! How would you even face people you work with and stuff? It's mind boggling to think about (not that I feel sorry for them at all).

Bizarre bizarre situation.

And yes, Fieger is one of the attorneys for the civil suit. Big surprise.

Dee

[wrigley]

Let NBA melee be a warning to all hecklers

Published November 23, 2004

A thoroughly delightful moment on the otherwise unsettling video of Friday night's NBA brawl at the Palace in Auburn Hills, Mich., goes by so quickly that you have to set the playback to 1/15th speed to savor it.

It comes just after Indiana Pacers forward Ron Artest has rushed crazily into the stands seeking revenge on whichever fan has thrown the cup of liquid that landed on his neck as he lay on his back on the scorer's table--an island of calm in the sea of Detroit Pistons players who are as enraged and belligerent as a flock of hillbilly cuckolds on "The Maury Povich Show."

I won't retell the whole story--the hard foul that touched off the fight on the floor and the subsequent chaos in the arena that has prompted so much amateur sociology these last few days. You know it by now.

Just enjoy with me the transformation of the slightly built fan in the dark golf shirt--several media reports have said his name is Mike Ryan--from punk loudmouth idiot jerk to terrified little wimp.

When we first catch sight of him, he has his right hand high in the air and his index finger is thrusting toward Artest, an internationally recognized taunting gesture. His left hand holds what appears to be a box of popcorn.

Police later say that Ryan didn't throw the beverage; it's still unclear exactly why Artest rushes past at least one other fan to get to him. But at that instant on the tape, he is every moron who has ever cursed out opposing players from the safety and ostensible sanctity of the sidelines.

He's Robin Ficker, the motormouth who sat behind the visitors' bench at Washington Bullets games and mercilessly heckled the other team.

He's Spike Lee, who believed that a courtside seat entitled him to be a participant in New York Knicks games.

He's Craig Bueno, the Oakland A's fan who, after his wife was struck by a folding chair thrown by a Texas Rangers relief pitcher, told reporters that he buys season tickets near the visiting bullpen so he can insult opposing players.

He's every coward, every drunk, every Big Man phony bully who thinks a ticket to a game entitles him to say whatever abusive, contemptuous belittling thing that pops into his head without risking the everyday consequences of such remarks.

In super slow-mo, Ryan's face loses its cocky self-assuredness, his eyes widen and his mouth forms a startled O in an instant as Artest's scrambling approach makes it clear he's about to smash through the imaginary protective barrier behind which obnoxious fans hide.

I imagine the thought balloon over Ryan's head in the millisecond before Artest pushes his face down hard with an open hand and the popcorn goes flying: "Hmm ... it seems he's a real person, not a cartoon character, and I couldn't mock, cuss out or taunt a real person on the street without risking severe consequences, particularly a real person who is so much bigger than I am and--mfffgggg!"

The cost in lost salary alone to Artest for this moment of apparently symbolic revenge in which his target was not seriously hurt: $5.3 million.

The value of it to those who are sick of the increasingly coarse and degrading behavior of spectators: (all together now!) priceless.

For too long, neither the leagues nor the law has taken unruly fan behavior seriously enough. In some cases, teams have actually encouraged it--passing out devices designed to distract free-throw shooters, for instance.

Whether this is a cause or just a symptom of the overall decline in sportsmanship at every level, I don't care.

Either way it's "poisonous," as NBA Commissioner David Stern put it over the weekend, and Friday's melee underscored the need for a major crackdown--zero tolerance for drunkenness, profanity and malicious heckling in the stands.

Every fan needs to have a Mike Ryan moment of realization: No matter how much you paid for your ticket or how much the athletes earn, it's gutless and disgraceful to hide behind a mob, a security guard or the protection of league rules to shout something at an opposing player you wouldn't say to his face in the parking lot.

Ideally, this can happen without any more popcorn being spilled.

The following was written by Eric Zorn, sports columnist for the Chicago Tribune. This is a rare moment when I agree with what he's written. Fans need to give players a certain level of respect when they're in the stadium.

Back in 1930, basketball games were basically played with a cage like fence going around the court to protect players from the fans. Sounds like it's time for a comeback.

[hottytoddy]

Originally posted by AGDee
Watch the tapes. Watch the tapes over and over. You will see that the guy he beat on first had done nothing. The one who threw the beer did it very discreetly and then put his hands in his pockets and looked around, acting innocent. From where Artest was laying, he couldn't see who had done it at all. The police reports state that Artest grabbed the guy, started hitting him saying "Did you throw it? Did you throw it?" There were witnesses. Why is it inconceivable that with a crowd and chaos like that, he would pick the wrong guy to suspect?

Yes, I watched the tapes over and over. I'm just saying that whole group of guys that was sitting there had could have been talking shit earlier that night as well. It's possible that's why he suspected him.

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Originally posted by hottytoddy
Yes, I watched the tapes over and over. I'm just saying that whole group of guys that was sitting there had could have been talking shit earlier that night as well. It's possible that's why he suspected him.

Talking shit or not...he still has a to sue for getting beat up. Artest should have looked a little more closely before he went after anyone. The guy was still holding his drink in his hand, first thing that tells me that he did not have throw the cup.

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by PM_Mama00

So I guess Cleveland and the other place it happened.... well their fans are hoodlums too, right?

Don't roll your eyes - you might just be correct!

According to USAToday, the other two times Artest claimed to be pelted with garbage from the stands occured in Cleveland and . . . Detroit.



Some are taking the wrong bent at this (mostly JeN, is that the correct spelling, btw?) - no one said AGDee was a hoodlum, no one even claimed the Phildo was a hoodlum . . . just that these Detroit fans are why Detroit gets a bad rep as a sports town (excepting hockey, which is a different story all together).

Also - I'm sure the first guy will get some money, but realistically it doesn't look like he took too much in the way of injuries. The guy knocked out by the chair has a stronger case, but I'm unsure why he's suing Ron Artest for a chair being thrown - in my industry, we call this "shitsticking" (ie "thow the shit at the money, see what sticks" - large-scale lawsuits almost unilaterally work under this assumption), and it seems somewhat f-ed up.

Realistically, let's assign some blame to the situation that incited this - the ENTIRE situation, not just the rich side of it. Fans were throwing haymakers, too - fans who had no right or responsibility to be engaged.

It's a full-blown fiasco now - it reflects badly on everyone. Even fans of the Pistons, like it or not.