trouble ahead?

[IvySpice]

There definitely has been a national trend of grade inflation over the last thirty or forty years, but it's across the board, and I've never seen an analysis that broke down greek v. non-greek GPAs across the decades for more than one campus. Without that data, I'm not sure what this phenomenon has to do with Greek life.

See, e.g., www.gradeinflation.com

[DeltaSigStan]

I don't agree with Erik very often, but this is definitely a situation where I can see his side of things....because it goes on at my school.

The top 7/8 of the 10 Panhel sororities are at least 75+. The bottom half of the 15 IFC fraternities have 50- brothers. Now, you can fault the fraternities all you want for not recruiting or what not, but it does get frustrating when only a small number of sororities can do something with of size. Attempts at combined greek parties have often worked, but they're few and far between.

Also, I know there are A LOT of girls who drop sororities after one or two years. it may not be their thing after all, they might not be able to afford it, or they simply "got over it". The drop rate has actually increased since I've gone greek.

In terms of the brotherhood/sisterhood, I feel it's perfectly possible to grow as a cohesive unit with that many members, but it often doesn't happen that way. I've often seen situations where a members of XYZ have met, conversed, and didn't even realize they were in the same house. But, I think, with that many people, aside from it getting real clique-like, it's more possible than probable to have a bond like that.

I guess there may be an upside to only having 20 undergraduate brothers....

[Tom Earp]

Stan, agree with you on all points.

I think what Erik is refering to is back in our day.

Now, it is a fact that Greeks have raised the bar on Grades but at the same time have cut mandatory study periods as it is comsidered hazing.

The transition of being a Greek is forever changing and We on this Site see many more things than most do, even the Academians at each College.

There are very intelligent people on here who can find information in a moments notice and pass along to us.

As can be seen, the emphasis while not on Grades, the Bar is in place to attain what We as Greeks want to have our Members be. Well at least hope for!

[g41965]

Eric: DU's at Kansas are similar to KU Beta's, very strong chapter always high in grades,rock chalk and athletics. DU keeps the chapter at 80-90 as well, they could be 125 if they wanted.

[Erik P Conard]

Changes at KU in last few decades; once powerful ATO, Delts
gone, TKE from 115 to 13, now in 40s, DU was not top, top,
in my day but certainly a good house, Theta Chi, now 80, was
about 15 men in late 50s. SAE, Fiji, Beta, Phi, Phi Psi, Sig have
most of the marbles presently. But even the mid-ranked houses
would blow many away elsewhere. Land hard to find to build,
everything changing 'cept Beta...but you all are probably tired
hearing about them....SAE multi-million $ palace, ditto Fiji.
Still good system, snooty, not as successful over-all as K-State,
but great housing. K-State has many, many top chapters, those
farmers have arguably best system in great plains.

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Well I am a Sigma Nu Phi at Eastern Michigan University. I know...I know...all of you are probably thinking "I have never heard of that" that is because we are local. And to be honest with you, I like being local. I started to pledge a national at Ferris State, I wanted so badly to become a Phi Sigma Sigma there. I started pledging and then I ended up having to transfer schools so I could not continue. Well when I came here I looked at the Phi Sigma Sigma's here and I didn't like the girls. So I looked into what else I could do. I came to find out that I could not join another National but there was one local sorority on campus that I could join. So I went an checked them out. The girls were awesome. To be honest with you, I like being local so much better than being National. I can sit in a room with all my active and some of my alumni sisters right now and tell you their first and last name and at least 5 things about them. When I was pledging Phi Sigma Sigma, I was lucky to know at least 10 of the girls names, first and last. We have a former Phi Sigma Sigma in our sorority now and she said the same thing. She said that she could never tell you the first and last name of half the girls in her sorority when she was National. I like being local so much better because of that reason. Everyone can try to tell me different, but there is no changing my mind. Being local is so much better.

[PhiNuBlue]

Oh i do LOVE being local. Don't get me wrong. And I know it is like htat with some nationals. I just feel that if you have girls in there that work to be close, they will be. It just depends how you feel about your sorority. Everyone joins for different reasons. However usually in our case it turns into the same one by the end of pledging. We love being Phi Nu!

[SigmaNuPhi4Life]

Yeah I guess you are right...but from talking to all the girls around here...none of the other Sorority's are as close as we are. And we are the only Local Sorority. I am not saying anything bad against Nationals...I am just saying that its more likely for a small group to be closer than a large group and most Nationals are large

[PhiNuBlue]

I totally agree. Being in a local rocks! Smaller groups do tend to bond easier and they way we do our pledging you have to spend time with every active girl before you can be activated. Its really great and one of the most fun parts of pledging!!

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by SigmaNuPhi4Life
I can sit in a room with all my active and some of my alumni sisters right now and tell you their first and last name and at least 5 things about them. When I was pledging Phi Sigma Sigma, I was lucky to know at least 10 of the girls names, first and last. We have a former Phi Sigma Sigma in our sorority now and she said the same thing. She said that she could never tell you the first and last name of half the girls in her sorority when she was National. I like being local so much better because of that reason. Everyone can try to tell me different, but there is no changing my mind. Being local is so much better.

Uhm, i could the same thing and I'm in a national fraternity. Granted, I don't know people from the 70s and 80s because I haven't met them, but I knew everybody that was active during my time as an active.

I'm not going to argue which one is better. That is relative to your experience. However, to say that being in a national means that you don't know your brothers or sisters is gross generalization.

[WVU alpha phi]

Originally posted by Erik P Conard
yep, we must agree to disagree.
but I think some of your reasoning is flat-ass dumb;
you will never prove to me that a "sorority" of 250
sisters has the closeness that 60 has, and while I
have not surveyed every campus, I can damned well
tell you that most chapters over 150 have no clue...
A seven million dollar palace does not make it, but
within the value systems of some, perhaps it does...

I really don't think the number of sisters or brothers in your org matters. Personally, I'm not best friends with all 100 of my sisters. Sure, we all go out together and I care about each and every one of them, but I wouldn't say I'm equally close to all of them. This could be true in a sorority or fraternity of just 40 people. It's all about personalities, and you aren't going to be best friends with every single person just cuz you wear the same letters. If 200 girls want to call themselves best friends, more power to them.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by WVU alpha phi
I really don't think the number of sisters or brothers in your org matters. Personally, I'm not best friends with all 100 of my sisters. Sure, we all go out together and I care about each and every one of them, but I wouldn't say I'm equally close to all of them. This could be true in a sorority or fraternity of just 40 people. It's all about personalities, and you aren't going to be best friends with every single person just cuz you wear the same letters. If 200 girls want to call themselves best friends, more power to them.

This is incredibly true. I was in a chapter of 25. There were girls in my house I just wasn't especially close to, and that was fine with me.

I think asking us to "prove" closeness is ridiculous. It's not mathematical. What's closeness? Knowing every sister's favorite color and shoe size, or seeing your sister crying because her fratty boyfriend just dumped her and going to comfort her with a box of Kleenex and a hug?

[Tom Earp]

Basically, smaller Chapters are where each Brother/Sister know each other.

Whether they all get along, of course not. As the Founder of a Local, there were some that were like oil and water.

But when push came to shove, We Did Work together, not the few, but The All.

I am sure as We became a International, there were the same problems where some did not just hit it off whille otheres did.

It usually is the Old 20/80% type thing. Those that do and those that are just there.

There are so many spaces for Officers and We all depend on them for everything dont we?

But, isnt it in the overall Picture for All to do what is needed?

Utopian of course but not realistic.

I just wonder how the Doers Do in the real after Graduation World!

[DeltaSigStan]

Great Tom, you basically just described my chapter.

Although, during my four years as a greek, I'm not going to be able to have some of the social perks (socials, exchanges), I'm really glad I found 19 guys who are completely different from each other. Our differences, for some reason, bring us together, and I know I'm going to be cool with these guys even after I graduate.

I mean, I guess being in a small house sucks in the long run, but I found the situation that best fits me, completely void of every other stereotype that the rest of SDSU's greek commmunity perpetuates.....

Originally posted by Tom Earp
Basically, smaller Chapters are where each Brother know each other.

Whether they all get along, of course not. there were some that were like oil and water.

But when push came to shove, We Did Work together, not the few, but The All.

It usually is the Old 20/80% type thing. Those that do and those that are just there.

There are so many spaces for Officers and We all depend on them for everything dont we?

But, isnt it in the overall Picture for All to do what is needed?

Utopian of course but not realistic.

I just wonder how the Doers Do in the real after Graduation World!

[PhiNuBlue]

I am not at all saying nationals cant have closeness. In fact I started posting in this thread saying that we shouldnt assume just bc a national has large numbers doesnt mean they cant be close. It all depends on how hard you work and your attitude towards your org. If you awnt to be close with your sisters/bros you will be. It may be easier to get to know a smaller amount of people but it doesnt mean you know them better. And I dont think all Nationals fit into a cookie cutter description. I think its hard for peopel to realize that even differetn chapters haev their uniqueness to them and differenct success stories! I respect you all very much! I love it here!