The growth of radical Islam

[KSig RC]

Originally posted by Imperial1
There is a growth. What's wrong with that?(Forget it, you still have me on ignore.)

My belief isn't based on Christian beliefs, therefore I believe there's more truth to my belief than Christianity's beliefs now.

Nothing can be done about it. Who are you to tell someone that they can't believe in ONE God which is Allah and reject Jesus as being God himself?

Imperial1

You didn't read - there's nothing implicitly wrong with any of the religions you've mentioned, and Rudey was not decrying Islam as an entity. You can believe in Allah or YHWH or Apollo, and no one is telling you not to (especially Rudey, who is not Christian).

However, this entire thread is dedicated to outlining the spread of RADICAL Islam, meaning groups that promote and actively seek out opportunities for violence and subjugation outside of the boundaries set forth by their religion.

There is most certainly something wrong with senseless violence and all that comes with it.

Originally posted by Shortfuse
P.S. can we show the same disgust for Radical Christianity?

It's not my place to tell you what you can and cannot do, but I would suggest that you show comensurate disgust for all sorts of radicial religious zealotry. By this, I mean that you should not hold murderers in the same regard as people who are merely annoying, but should rather temper your disgust to match the actions of any group. In both senses, however, it is clear these groups are perverting the religions they claim to represent, so your distaste is clearly warranted - however, to say that we should show the 'same disgust' for every radical religious group across the board seems somewhat short-sighted if not tempered for the actions of that group.

Short answer: yes, but with some reservations for temporal differences and significant differences in degree.

[Rudey]

You call them nuts, but there are too many of them to just be a nuisance on the radar and they probably call you nuts.

As for Christian radicals, if you want to make a thread and really discuss it, go right ahead.

-Rudey

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Interesting to say the least.


Don't think it's growing, it's been BIG for a LONG time. Right now with war in the middle east and American troops being involved the media has been focused on it alot more.

This thing is fully grown. Let's remember there has been a distrust and dislike for Christianity dating back to the Crusades. Alot of people have held this resentment in for a long time and have rejected anything that isn't Islam (kinda like your Relgious groups here in America.). And it doesn't take much to set them off.

As far as it being denounce look no further than the holy Q''uran which denounces the killing of women and children as well as people who have NEVER harmed you. Islam also calls for you to do to your attacker what he's done to you and to never go over that boundary. These nuts have twisted Islam into a ugly thing.


I would also add American policy has also hampered the ability to stop these men and I'm not talking about the invasion of Iraq and Saddam Hussein.



P.S. can we show the same disgust for Radical Christianity?

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
You call them nuts, but there are too many of them to just be a nuisance on the radar and they probably call you nuts.

As for Christian radicals, if you want to make a thread and really discuss it, go right ahead.

-Rudey

They probably do.

My point is this Islam is a peaceful religion. It's about peace, not war. Killing innocent women and children is WRONG in Allah's eyes. Killing Muslims is WRONG in Allah's eyes. (one of the reason I didn't go back to the military.).

These men are wrong and if they are reading their Q'uran they know they're wrong.


Christian radicals, whether you want to discuss it or not, I find it funny that some (don't know your religion so I cna't include you on it) people are more than willing to talk about how brutal some religions are and won't see the bloody past of their own. When they do they don't put a religion on it. Oklahoma City in the mid 90s wasn't much said about dude's religion. You hear some (insert country here) are blowing things up. When stuff get's blown up in let's say for example Saudi Arabia, it's Islamic radicals. People are not believing t hat Muslims are a band of people going from place to place blowing ish up.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by KSig RC
You didn't read - there's nothing implicitly wrong with any of the religions you've mentioned, and Rudey was not decrying Islam as an entity. You can believe in Allah or YHWH or Apollo, and no one is telling you not to (especially Rudey, who is not Christian).

However, this entire thread is dedicated to outlining the spread of RADICAL Islam, meaning groups that promote and actively seek out opportunities for violence and subjugation outside of the boundaries set forth by their religion.

There is most certainly something wrong with senseless violence and all that comes with it.




It's not my place to tell you what you can and cannot do, but I would suggest that you show comensurate disgust for all sorts of radicial religious zealotry. By this, I mean that you should not hold murderers in the same regard as people who are merely annoying, but should rather temper your disgust to match the actions of any group. In both senses, however, it is clear these groups are perverting the religions they claim to represent, so your distaste is clearly warranted - however, to say that we should show the 'same disgust' for every radical religious group across the board seems somewhat short-sighted if not tempered for the actions of that group.

Short answer: yes, but with some reservations for temporal differences and significant differences in degree.

There's ALOT wrong with senseless violence and most Muslims will tell you the same.

In both senses, however, it is clear these groups are perverting the religions they claim to represent, so your distaste is clearly warranted - however, to say that we should show the 'same disgust' for every radical religious group across the board seems somewhat short-sighted if not tempered for the actions of that group.

I show the same level of disgust for any group that perverts it's religion for personal gain. A sin is a sin and it's punishable all the same. As for violence there's a group right here in the US that needs to be wiped out.

[Rudey]

It's not about me discussing it. I created a thread on radical Islam to discuss radical Islam. I don't take a class in Literature and then get taught algebra. But just so you don't say I don't want to discuss it, I even created a thread for radical Christianity if you want to discuss it.

Again it's your point that Islam is a peaceful religion and your interpretation of the Koran. I'm sure the Sunnis think the Shiites are wrong. I'm sure that the Saudis who teach Americans and non-Muslims are infidels and the Madrassas who teach murder is acceptable to young men because of the prize of virgins all claim that they are right.

What I am saying is that everyone has a point...and an interpretation...and a view. Those that want to make Islam into a "violent" religion have a different view from you and you simply can't say they are wrong because they will say you are wrong.

-Rudey

Originally posted by Shortfuse
They probably do.

My point is this Islam is a peaceful religion. It's about peace, not war. Killing innocent women and children is WRONG in Allah's eyes. Killing Muslims is WRONG in Allah's eyes. (one of the reason I didn't go back to the military.).

These men are wrong and if they are reading their Q'uran they know they're wrong.


Christian radicals, whether you want to discuss it or not, I find it funny that some (don't know your religion so I cna't include you on it) people are more than willing to talk about how brutal some religions are and won't see the bloody past of their own. When they do they don't put a religion on it. Oklahoma City in the mid 90s wasn't much said about dude's religion. You hear some (insert country here) are blowing things up. When stuff get's blown up in let's say for example Saudi Arabia, it's Islamic radicals. People are not believing t hat Muslims are a band of people going from place to place blowing ish up.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
It's not about me discussing it. I created a thread on radical Islam to discuss radical Islam. I don't take a class in Literature and then get taught algebra. But just so you don't say I don't want to discuss it, I even created a thread for radical Christianity if you want to discuss it.

Again it's your point that Islam is a peaceful religion and your interpretation of the Koran. I'm sure the Sunnis think the Shiites are wrong. I'm sure that the Saudis who teach Americans and non-Muslims are infidels and the Madrassas who teach murder is acceptable to young men because of the prize of virgins all claim that they are right.

What I am saying is that everyone has a point...and an interpretation...and a view. Those that want to make Islam into a "violent" religion have a different view from you and you simply can't say they are wrong because they will say you are wrong.

-Rudey

I didn't want to get into radical christianity and thanks for doing that.

They know that it's wrong. I don't think I'm trying to interrupt it in any form. Islam means peace. You can't interrupt that in any ther form. It's cut and dry.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
I didn't want to get into radical christianity and thanks for doing that.

They know that it's wrong. I don't think I'm trying to interrupt it in any form. Islam means peace. You can't interrupt that in any ther form. It's cut and dry.

You're saying that it's wrong (ie you think it's wrong) and now that they know it's wrong. I don't see what you base this off of - especially given the posts in this forum with articles that talk about how they feel they are right and reject any reinterpretation of holy scripts.

If you had told the Taliban they were wrong, you might not have had a tongue. I'm sure the Saudis might consider executing you if you told them they were wrong and the Mullahs in Qum would leave you bloody for it. I on the other hand would just accept that you have a different interpretation than they do and that it's important to get people with non-violent interpretations to completely dominate the violent ones.

-Rudey

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
You're saying that it's wrong (ie you think it's wrong) and now that they know it's wrong. I don't see what you base this off of - especially given the posts in this forum with articles that talk about how they feel they are right and reject any reinterpretation of holy scripts.

If you had told the Taliban they were wrong, you might not have had a tongue. I'm sure the Saudis might consider executing you if you told them they were wrong and the Mullahs in Qum would leave you bloody for it. I on the other hand would just accept that you have a different interpretation than they do and that it's important to get people with non-violent interpretations to completely dominate the violent ones.

-Rudey

I agree with you to a extent but....

Cutting out my tongue or chopping off my head doesn't make it right.

It was wrong for blacks to be held as slave and for one of them to speak up would mean that they would get hunged or killed. Doesn't make it right.


I'm enjoying this debate by the way.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
I agree with you to a extent but....

Cutting out my tongue or chopping off my head doesn't make it right.

It was wrong for blacks to be held as slave and for one of them to speak up would mean that they would get hunged or killed. Doesn't make it right.


I'm enjoying this debate by the way.

It doesn't make it right to you and I, but it is right to them. Given that they have the power and control over people there, they also can write the laws saying it is right.

The solution is to eliminate these governments and to encourage people who don't consider violence to be acceptable to become the majority.

-Rudey

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by Rudey
It doesn't make it right to you and I, but it is right to them. Given that they have the power and control over people there, they also can write the laws saying it is right.

The solution is to eliminate these governments and to encourage people who don't consider violence to be acceptable to become the majority.

-Rudey

That is a solution but I can only agree with it if it's the people themselves you stand up first. THEN, I can go with US involvement. It's kinda like goign back in time and changing a event to you liking, you might get a positive result then but on the other hand you might set off a chain of events that could lead to disaster.

[RUgreek]

If the people are being suppressed so much and are being threatened with death, then there really isn't much opportunity for them to stand up and voice their dissentions with the government. Afghanistan is one of those places that violence and absolute relgious control ruined the people. If it was not for outside involvement, that country would still be under a Taliban government.

While the world hates to see the US get involved in foreign affairs, it's difficult for us not to. Foreign aid is a tough job and it can't just be a blank check and nothing else all the time. I don't think our military needs to be on the offensive, but I do think a good cause derserves our involvement.


RUgreek

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by RUgreek
If the people are being suppressed so much and are being threatened with death, then there really isn't much opportunity for them to stand up and voice their dissentions with the government. Afghanistan is one of those places that violence and absolute relgious control ruined the people. If it was not for outside involvement, that country would still be under a Taliban government.

While the world hates to see the US get involved in foreign affairs, it's difficult for us not to. Foreign aid is a tough job and it can't just be a blank check and nothing else all the time. I don't think our military needs to be on the offensive, but I do think a good cause derserves our involvement.


RUgreek

Not True at all. Russia overcame these problems. The French Revolution is another one. Haiti when they threw out the French is a example. You can also look at the peaceful resistence of the Indians under Ghandi and to a certian degree Black America's struggles here in the states. Eastern Europe breaking away from communism. Apartheid.

Sooner or later governments who treat their people wrong will fall. The people get tired of it and the saying "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" begins to mean something to the people. I'm sure Saddam would have gotten his sooner or later. How did we know that other Middle Eastern countries weren't tiring of his antics? I felt like Iraq wasn't our business in the first place.

[RUgreek]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
Not True at all. Russia overcame these problems. The French Revolution is another one. Haiti when they threw out the French is a example. You can also look at the peaceful resistence of the Indians under Ghandi and to a certian degree Black America's struggles here in the states. Eastern Europe breaking away from communism. Apartheid.

Sooner or later governments who treat their people wrong will fall. The people get tired of it and the saying "It's better to die on your feet then live on your knees" begins to mean something to the people. I'm sure Saddam would have gotten his sooner or later. How did we know that other Middle Eastern countries weren't tiring of his antics? I felt like Iraq wasn't our business in the first place.

Yea I know it does work without outside influence or involvement, but what's wrong with a little help sometimes? Yea, it's their country and they should be mature enough to solve their own problems. And of course, we are not perfect therefore we shouldn't be telling others what to do. However, some basic things like oppressing women, executing random groups people for crazy religious laws, all these seem like harsh living conditions and need to be stopped immediately.

As for Iraq, that's another topic. Plus the GC lurkers are looking for another reason to bash America for not finding weapons, so I don't want to divert this thread. Radical Islam seems to prey on innocent people and influence the weak. They managed to turn Afghanistan into their personal little playground of destruction. Saving that country was the least we could do.

[Shortfuse]

Originally posted by RUgreek
Yea I know it does work without outside influence or involvement, but what's wrong with a little help sometimes? Yea, it's their country and they should be mature enough to solve their own problems. And of course, we are not perfect therefore we shouldn't be telling others what to do. However, some basic things like oppressing women, executing random groups people for crazy religious laws, all these seem like harsh living conditions and need to be stopped immediately.

As for Iraq, that's another topic. Plus the GC lurkers are looking for another reason to bash America for not finding weapons, so I don't want to divert this thread. Radical Islam seems to prey on innocent people and influence the weak. They managed to turn Afghanistan into their personal little playground of destruction. Saving that country was the least we could do.

I'll agree with you on Afghanistan but for different reason. I can't condone any country that hides Bin Laden and tells us that we're hiding a man who is the mastermind of 9/11. That alone was more than enough for us to go and teach the Taliban a lesson.

Radical Islam isn't much different than Non-Islamic groups who are slaughtering muslims in Serbia and the Sudan. But I don't see a military influence in the Sudan. Well not one who goal is to go over and wipe their radical ideals o ut.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by Shortfuse
I'll agree with you on Afghanistan but for different reason. I can't condone any country that hides Bin Laden and tells us that we're hiding a man who is the mastermind of 9/11. That alone was more than enough for us to go and teach the Taliban a lesson.

Radical Islam isn't much different than Non-Islamic groups who are slaughtering muslims in Serbia and the Sudan. But I don't see a military influence in the Sudan. Well not one who goal is to go over and wipe their radical ideals o ut.

How are they comparable? Muslim radicals are using terrorism to kill non-believers and to spread Islam. And that is also what is happening in Sudan. There are Muslim and Arab Northerners who control the government and are massacring those that are not only different but also imposing their government on them. And before you say it, because I know you will, yes, America should also be there. Not only should America be there but so should other countries. The genocide is horific by all counts.

-Rudey