Federal judge says partial-birth abortion ban unconstitutional

[Pike1483]

I personally am very Pro-Life and I beleive that life starts at conception. This comes from my code of morality, which comes from my upbrining, my own personal research, and overall, my Christian faith.

Dealing with my upbringing-- I'm a quadruplet (4 babies at one time). Medical professionals told my mother that she might want to consider abortion, or "selective reduction," due to the monumental risks associated with multiple births of our size. My mom adamently refused and trusted in God to take care of her and her babies. After all, God provided them. And God did take care of us. All of us were over 4 pounds at birth, and all in tip-top shape. My parents always raised us to be pro-life.

I also have a friend who was conceived after a rape and her mother decided to go ahead and have her, which is extremely commendable, in my opinion. The girl turned out to be a really great, smart, and beautiful young woman. She would have never blessed the world with her presence if her mother had decided to abort.
Rape is a case which I think is horrible and hope I never have to deal with (not me personally obviously, but my future spouse or family member or someone). I certainly wouldn't judge a woman for getting an abortion after a rape, but I still believe that it's ending a human life, and it's not the child's fault. But like I said, that is a horrible situation, and I certainly wouldn't judge any woman who chose to have an abortion in that case.

As for partial-birth abortions, I think this should be absolutely out of the question. I would love to see any thread of medical evidence from a real-life case (not hypothetical) where giving birth, and then killing the baby while only it's head remains in the birth canal is medically necessary! Doctors actually turn the baby around so that only it's feet are sticking out, because if it's head is out, then to them it's not technically alive yet!! What is the difference between this and just waiting 'till the baby is born completely before jamming a pair of scissors in the back of it's skull! This is one of the sickest practices I've ever heard of and a society that accepts this as normal has problems, in my book.

I'm certainly against abortions as a form of contraception. Here's a tip, if you can't afford condoms or birth control-- go to the county health center or student health center! Almost all of them give out free contraception!

Jeremiah 1:4-5
"Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

[BirthaBlue4]

Originally posted by Pike1483
Rape is a case which I think is horrible and hope I never have to deal with (not me personally obviously, but my future spouse or family member or someone). I certainly wouldn't judge a woman for getting an abortion after a rape, but I still believe that it's ending a human life, and it's not the child's fault. But like I said, that is a horrible situation, and I certainly wouldn't judge any woman who chose to have an abortion in that case.

I'm certainly against abortions as a form of contraception. Here's a tip, if you can't afford condoms or birth control-- go to the county health center or student health center! Almost all of them give out free contraception!

Jeremiah 1:4-5
"Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."

That's it in a nutshell. I think that rape and incest are separate situations. I don't knock it in this situation, but I'd rather they didn't regardless of situation. I KNOW that I could never abort any child that was developed in my womb, no matter how it got there. Yes their father is a rapist, but its mother is not, so how do you choose? I have one now, she came from a not so good situation, but its not HER fault. So I deal with it, it was my fault for being temporarily insane. And I love her to death.

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
So for the Pro-Murder or children/Abortion people:

It's ok for the mother to murder the child while its alive inside them...but not ok once the child is outside of the womb? Why put a limitation on it?..why not just let the mother murder the child whenever it becomes an "inconvenience" or the $$ gets low, or when her career is more important? If we're going to kill the children..lets' just define when its ok..and when its not.

Pretty much. When they came out with the whole "fetus does not equal baby, therefore its not a human until it comes out" crap, a LOT of people felt "relieved" and got scalpel-happy. And it make people who would otherwise NEVER kill a living soul feel "comfortable"

Just remember Karma is a mofo...when you WANT to have kids you're gonna have issues. That's why I believe my friend had issues wither her kept pregnacies...Karma came and slapped her in the face.

[Kevin]

When folks start throwing around terms like "murder" and "baby killer", etc, this conversation won't get very far. If you're interested in discussion and not just standing on a soapbox, tone it down a bit.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by ktsnake
When folks start throwing around terms like "murder" and "baby killer", etc, this conversation won't get very far. If you're interested in discussion and not just standing on a soapbox, tone it down a bit.

Well if you're man or woman enough to support it..or do it...why can't u handle being called out on it?? IT IS WHAT IT IS! Sugar coating the name of the procedure doesn't change the fact...Don't get angry at me for calling it what it is...get angry at those that actually support or have the procedure done.

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by BirthaBlue4

Just remember Karma is a mofo...when you WANT to have kids you're gonna have issues. That's why I believe my friend had issues wither her kept pregnacies...Karma came and slapped her in the face.

OH my..this is so true! I know so many women..that once they get their little lives on their own timelines..and are ready to start a family (after killing a few b/c they weren't ready)...they can't have any...happens ALL the time...


Originally posted by Pike1483
Rape is a case which I think is horrible and hope I never have to deal with (not me personally obviously, but my future spouse or family member or someone). I certainly wouldn't judge a woman for getting an abortion after a rape, but I still believe that it's ending a human life, and it's not the child's fault. But like I said, that is a horrible situation, and I certainly wouldn't judge any woman who chose to have an abortion in that case.

I'm certainly against abortions as a form of contraception. Here's a tip, if you can't afford condoms or birth control-- go to the county health center or student health center! Almost all of them give out free contraception!

Jeremiah 1:4-5
"Now the word of the Lord came to me saying, 5 "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you; I appointed you a prophet to the nations."


I think this is an excellent post ^5

[Kevin]

Originally posted by Love_Spell_6
Well if you're man or woman enough to support it..or do it...why can't u handle being called out on it?? IT IS WHAT IT IS! Sugar coating the name of the procedure doesn't change the fact...Don't get angry at me for calling it what it is...get angry at those that actually support or have the procedure done.

So do you want to discuss it or do you want to stand on a soapbox?

[godfrey n. glad]

Originally posted by Pike1483
I personally am very Pro-Life and I beleive that life starts at conception. This comes from my code of morality, which comes from my upbrining, my own personal research, and overall, my Christian faith.

Now that you mention Christian faith, I have to ask where Christians get the idea that God would be anti-abortion. In fact, the Bible doesn't address the morality of abortion at all, and the only verse I know of, in my research, that addresses the death of a fetus/unborn child, is Exodus 21:22-23:

21:22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart [from her], and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges [determine]. And if [any] mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

So, it appears that God (given that the Bible is the word of God) doesn't consider the fetus/unborn child to be worth as much as a post-birth human's life. He says that if the fetus/unborn child dies, that's "no mischief." and there are only minor punitive damages as deemed necessary by judges and the husband. Yet, if the woman is seriously harmed, that is what is considered evil. So, if even God doesn't think an unborn child's malicious death is worth more than a slap on the wrist, payment of a fine, or 20 lashes (etc), why do Christians now believe it is his will that they be treated exactly as post-birth humans? I don't question the tradition, just how it originated in the first place. it doesn't appear to come from the Bible/God Himself.

[valkyrie]

Why does anybody think it's the government's position to decide what medical procedures can be done and which ones can't? Isn't that a decision that's better left to, I don't know, medical professionals?

I mean, it's easy enough to just not have an abortion if you think it's wrong. If you're a man, this will never be an issue for you since you could never be pregnant. Why worry about it?

[Rudey]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Why does anybody think it's the government's position to decide what medical procedures can be done and which ones can't? Isn't that a decision that's better left to, I don't know, medical professionals?

I mean, it's easy enough to just not have an abortion if you think it's wrong. If you're a man, this will never be an issue for you since you could never be pregnant. Why worry about it?

If we got rid of the government and all those nice laws and regulations, think about how many lawyers would be out of work.

-Rudey

[DZHBrown]

If you're a man, this will never be an issue for you since you could never be pregnant. Why worry about it?

Because some men actually care what happens to the children they helped to create. Just because they basically have no rights prior to birth does not mean that they shouldn't have those rights or that they don't have the right to care.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by DZHBrown
Because some men actually care what happens to the children they produce.

Isn't that different from caring about the "children" that they've had nothing to do with producing? It's one thing to care about whether your potential child is aborted, but another thing entirely to want to force your ideals onto people you've never met.

[DZHBrown]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Isn't that different from caring about the "children" that they've had nothing to do with producing? It's one thing to care about whether your potential child is aborted, but another thing entirely to want to force your ideals onto people you've never met.

Is it different? Yes. Is it still an issue a man can be concerned about because it may or may not affect him one day? Yes. Can a man find it morally offensive that it's okay to kill a child that is viable outside the womb? Yes. You don't have to be personally affected by a situation to care about it or have an opinion on it and you can't really tell someone else what they can or cannot have an opinion on.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by valkyrie
Isn't that different from caring about the "children" that they've had nothing to do with producing? It's one thing to care about whether your potential child is aborted, but another thing entirely to want to force your ideals onto people you've never met.

And what about the father who wants to keep the baby and if the mother won't take it, then he takes it?

Actually you should also tell the lesbian (godfrey) who is a proven liar with bad grammar that she should stop posting because women don't make other women pregnat. At least men take part in the process of the creation of children.

-Rudey

[Love_Spell_6]

Originally posted by Rudey
And what about the father who wants to keep the baby and if the mother won't take it, then he takes it?

Actually you should also tell the lesbian (godfrey) who is a proven liar with bad grammar that she should stop posting because women don't make other women pregnat. At least men take part in the process of the creation of children.

-Rudey

Rudey
U crack me up!

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by DZHBrown
Depending on your school status, you can also go to your student health center, see a doctor for five minutes (no exam), and pay $10. You can also do this at a crisis pregnancy center.

Not so, once again. I went with a friend once to get her EC at our undergrad's health center, and it was $72, and it required a pregnancy test.

That same friend later went on to get pregnant in an abusive situation. She also had existing health problems that would have made pregnancy harrowing, but perhaps not life threatening. Luckily, she had the foresight to go to the doctor early. Not all pregnancies are happy events. Sometimes things happen late into the pregnancy--such as the diagnosis of certain conditions--that change a once joyous event into a nightmare. All I'm asking is that there is a clause in any law banning late-term abortions that allows the procedure to protect the life and future fertility of the mother.