Why are there no black members in Phi Kappa Psi? Another view - Page 6

kddani · #76 03-09-2003, 12:32 AM

Now be honest, how many NIC/NFC/IFC members can say, 1) they attended their last national conference and 2) they have met ACTIVE members with over 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years of service in their organization in addition to service in the community in the name of your organization

1)As an NPC woman, I can say that I attended my last national conference, and will be attending the next one and the one after that, and the one after than.
2) I can. I can give you names almost off the top of my head. I've met them. I speak and communicate with them almost every day.

The bond you create and the committment you make to the community in in the name of your organization is a bond and committment for life, and I just don't see that same bond or committment after graduation in the NPC/NIC/IFC organizations.

That's a broad, sweeping generalization that is also very untrue. How much experience do you have with NPC/IFC/NIC, etc. groups?

The people you cross with will most likely be your childrens godparents, your best man/maid of honor at your wedding, the one you can call at 4 in the morning when you need someone to talk to, the ones who 50 years down the road you can still depend on just as much as when you crossed, and are the ones you always see helping out in the community.

I'm pretty sure that most of the attendants in my wedding (whenever that may be!) will be Kappa Delta. If i need someone to call at 4AM, besides my family, it would be a KD. 50 years from now i'll be a little old KD lady attending convention with my fellow little old 72 year old KD ladies.

And to be also truthful here, I see more non-NPHC groups in the community where I live than NPHC groups. In my collegiate community, in the city community.

What I think people fail to understand is that black geek ties run deep. It goes deeper than just wanting your child to carry on a tradition. It's about wanting to further your bond with your child. To share common experiences with them. To not only be able to call them your child, but you brother/sister frat/soror, thats something special.

Ummm.. how is this not true for non-NPHC groups? I have many older (i'm only 22) KD sisters who have shared the experiences of KD with their daughters, grandchildren, etc. I do agree that being able to call them your child as well as your sister, is special. I hope to have a daughter one day who becomes a KD. But I will NEVER question her choice if she decides that it's not the right group for her, and that something else would be a better fit.

To have them be a member of an organization that can claim members such as Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Jessie Jackson, Arthur Ashe, A. Philip Randolph, Bobby Rush, Maya Angelou, Wilma Rudoolph, Zora Neale Hurston, and Hattie McDaniel.

That is an incredibly impressive list. But non-NPHC groups do also have a rich history and a lot of incredible people. Particularly, for example, NPC groups- women that have pioneered for women's rights. Women that went to college when higher education was almost exclusively a men-only experience.

"When I became a Delta, I became a Delta for life. When I graduate I will still be a Delta. When I get married I will still be a Delta. When I have my children I will still be a Delta. And when I die I will still be a Delta and my robe in heaven better be Crimson and Creme."

When I became a KD, I became a KD for life. I graduated, i'm still a KD. I'll be a KD after I get married- i'll be a KD on my wedding day with my bouquet of white roses, my garter from initiation, and my KD sisters standing beside me. When I have children, i'll still be a KD. When I die I will be a KD, and my robe better be green and white.

Its just different.

No it is not.

You post didn't ruffle my feathers, rather it evoked a very emotional response in my heart and mind about my own group. Those feelings, those emotions, are not exclusive to NPHC groups.

I would never dream of saying that one org was better than another. While no one has expressly said that, it has been implied, many times, that NPHC groups are "better" than NPC groups. Saying that they do all these things, and that non-NPHC groups do not. That it's a lifetime commitment to NPHC groups, and not to non-NPHC groups.

While it didn't ruffle my feathers, your post did hurt me. And in all honesty, it kind of seems hypocritcal. These great leaders that you speak of, would they be approving of the elitist attitude shown here? Putting down another organization or person to boost your own? Would they approve of trying to force your child to join an org that they didn't feel was right for them?

I'd NEVER in a million years dream about putting down NPHC groups. That's not right. It's not right to put down orgs that DO do so much for the community and for people. I think that NPHC groups and non-NPHC groups do have a lot in common, and I realized how much more when writing this post than I ever have before.

I have two words that I want to end on: "MUTUAL RESPECT"

I have felt very disrepected throughout this thread, as a member of an NPC group. No where here did ANYONE try to lessen what NPHC groups do. No where did "we" (non-NPHC men and women) belittle NPHC groups or show them disrespect.
So why can't the respect go both waysl?
I'm not sure if you're new to GC or just using a different ID to protect your anoniminity. But take a look around GC, talk to some of the fine men and women of different groups that participate here, and I hope you will gain a different view of non-NPHC groups.

Sistermadly · #77 03-09-2003, 02:44 AM

Well said, kddani.

phikappapsiman · #78 03-09-2003, 03:28 AM

Thank you, Blackwatch, for your response...

But since you do not know me personally, or my views, or what I was looking for in college, or the type of friends I like to associate with, you really have no place to judge me or my choice. I made the choice that I felt was the right choice FOR ME! That choice did not come easily, nor without some consequences. I am as proud to be a member of Phi Kappa Psi as I am proud of my father being an Omega Psi Phi (Go Que Dog!!!) and my mother and sister being Sorors of Delta Sigma Theta, Incorporated. And when I marry, and if I am blessed enough to father a son, and that son attends college, I hope that he will choose the organization that is right for him, whether it is A Phi A or Omega or Kappa or Sigma or a traditionally white fraternity, or maybe neither. And if we have a daughter, the same for her (but on a sorority level). Sure, I see that my parents are still involved in their respective organizations, and that is great FOR THEM. But you see, I have had many more opportunities than my parents had when they were attending college. They both attended Tennessee State University, which at that time was one of the few schools that blacks could attend. They raised me to believe that I could achieve what I wanted if I studied hard, and I was able to make that belief a reality by getting into, and graduating from Stanford. Am I any less black because I chose to do that? I think not. Having gone through high school in the south, and being called Oreo by other blacks because most of my friends were white, and I was the ONLY black in my AP classes, I really don't give a damn what anyone thinks of my choices. I have white and black friends (in fact, my best friend at Stanford was also a Phi Psi, and is black), and believe me, I never for one minute forget who I am, and where I come from. I KNOW the bonds that can occur when a parent and child share the same affiliation. Believe me, going home to visit my mother and sister, and seeing all the crimson and creme (NOT pink and green), and all of the elephants, I understand completely what it means to them.

And I actually thank you, Blackwatch, for I am actually MORE proud than ever now to be a strong, independent, free-thinking Black Man, able to NOT be constrained by either side in determining who or what I should be. I mean, when one out of every three black college age men in America is in prison, just the fact that I am a college graduate means a hell of a lot to me. Add that to the fact that I am nobody's Baby Daddy yet, and I think that I am doing pretty well for myself.

"...who dat is??? It's just my baby daddy"

kddani · #79 03-09-2003, 11:01 AM

I just also wanted to add that i'm very proud of all GCers in that this thread hasn't been hijacked into some ridiculous silly thread like many others tend to.

Everyone who has been posting to it has been posting very maturely!

Thank you, also, phikappapsiman, for sharing your experiences. You shouldn't have to justify your choice to anyone, ever.

moe.ron · #80 03-09-2003, 01:47 PM

Now be honest, how many NIC/NFC/IFC members can say, 1) they attended their last national conference and 2) they have met ACTIVE members with over 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 years of service in their organization in addition to service in the community in the name of your organization

I was not abel to be at the last national conference because I was, and still is in Africa. My fraternity defined ACTIVE members as people still in college. But if you meant it as a members who are still active with the fraternity outside the college, I've met plenty. Including an 85 years old man who have met one of the founding members. Also, did you forget that most of the executive boards and board of trustees are all older brothers with vast experiences ranging from business to law. Beside, how can we afford the hq, all the salary of the staff, etc. without loyal brothers who contributed both time and money, without expecting nothing back except the joy of helping those who are still in their undergrad year.

The bond you create and the committment you make to the community in in the name of your organization is a bond and committment for life, and I just don't see that same bond or committment after graduation in the NPC/NIC/IFC organizations

THat is it, it's the bond that people create. Sure there are those that did their four years thing and never herd of again. But then there are also others that did their lifetime thing and kept in touch with the fraternity. Every org has these two type of individuals, no matter if it's nps, nic, nphc. BTW, IFC is the same thing as NIC, except IFC is the local NIC. And many campus does not have IFC, instead they have IGC, IGA, or what ever they call them.

The people you cross with will most likely be your childrens godparents, your best man/maid of honor at your wedding, the one you can call at 4 in the morning when you need someone to talk to, the ones who 50 years down the road you can still depend on just as much as when you crossed, and are the ones you always see helping out in the community.

Same with my fraternity. Many are involved with the community, ranging from a school teacher all the way to former mayor of buffalo. Many wedding saw the best man as their brothers. We care with each other. I've called many when i needed help 3 in the morning, and they didn't hesitate to help.

What I think people fail to understand is that black geek ties run deep. It goes deeper than just wanting your child to carry on a tradition. It's about wanting to further your bond with your child. To share common experiences with them. To not only be able to call them your child, but you brother/sister frat/soror, thats something special.

I have hoped that if I have a son will become a SigEp. However, ultimately it is his choice whether to be one, or not to be anything. His happiness and his success is what I care the most about.

To have them be a member of an organization that can claim members such as Rev. Martin Luther King Jr., Jessie Jackson, Arthur Ashe, A. Philip Randolph, Bobby Rush, Maya Angelou, Wilma Rudoolph, Zora Neale Hurston, and Hattie McDaniel.

I guess I can also list famous alumni such as Dr. Theodre S. Geisel otherwise known as Dr. Seus, Ronald H. Brown (RIP), "Gene" Keady, Jr. However, ultimately the key to success of a fraternity is not just the long list of famous people, but how that fraternity or sorority contribute to the betterment of its members and ultimately society and the world.

"When I became a Delta, I became a Delta for life. When I graduate I will still be a Delta. When I get married I will still be a Delta. When I have my children I will still be a Delta. And when I die I will still be a Delta and my robe in heaven better be Crimson and Creme."

Ditto. Just change the Delta to SigEp

Its just different.

We make the fraternity experience. We make it into a noble institution or just another club. Ultimately, we define what brotherhood or sisterhood means. And that my friend, is why fraternity is ever evolving. My organizations have some shameful past in term of discrimination. But we evolved and we would have never been the size we are currently in without evolvution.

Tom Earp · #81 03-09-2003, 02:36 PM

Yes, it is not the color of the skin which makes a member of a certain individual of a Greek Org.

If the individual wishes to join My Fraternity, then he can!

I hope I do not need to a say anymore! He is my Brother and it is set in stone as far as I am concerned! He beleives in the Priciples of LXA and that is good enuff for me! Brother Rodney J got railroaded into being a member of Our House Corp. I am so glad to have a man of his stature to be a member! Color, yes he is-----Purple, Green, and Gold!

Sistermadly · #82 03-09-2003, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phikappapsiman
And I actually thank you, Blackwatch, for I am actually MORE proud than ever now to be a strong, independent, free-thinking Black Man, able to NOT be constrained by either side in determining who or what I should be. I mean, when one out of every three black college age men in America is in prison, just the fact that I am a college graduate means a hell of a lot to me. Add that to the fact that I am nobody's Baby Daddy yet, and I think that I am doing pretty well for myself.

*applauds wildly and cheers*

12dn94dst · #83 03-09-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Arya
My fraternity defined ACTIVE members as people still in college.

And there you have the root of the difference.

sugar and spice · #84 03-09-2003, 06:27 PM

I think those who are not intimately involved with NPC and NIC organizations tend to have a lot of stereotypes associated with them, simply because there is such an inaccurate portrayal of them in the media. Whenever there's a television show/book/movie that involves NPC or NIC rush, there is never a mention made of anything beyond the collegiate experience. Obviously, anybody who's paying attention to this board can see that this is dead wrong -- this board is FILLED with alumni who are still active in their respective NPC or NIC organizations.

I think that part of this misrepresentation is because historically, there wasn't so much emphasis on "being a member for life." However, this is rapidly changing. These days NIC and NPC groups are putting more and more emphasis on the alumni experience, on being involved after college. My sorority, for example, has more than twice as many alumnae chapters than it has collegiate chapters. If none of the members were involved after college, this would not be the case.

Now obviously the level of post-collegiate involvement is not the same as that of the NPHC organizations. But for anyone to say that being an NPC or NIC member is not for life is both very wrong and very disrespectful to the millions of NPC and NIC alumni who are still involved in their organizations.

collegeguy · #85 03-09-2003, 06:40 PM

To kddani. I would like to apologize if my statements hurt you in any way. That was not my intention. I was just trying to give you the perspective the young mans parents and family were probably coming from. Thats not to say I am in any way backing away from the comments I made. I do believe there is a fundamental difference between NPHC and non NPHC groups. Does that mean one is better than the other? No. Different does not mean better or worse, right or wrong. I just means different. I mean, just think of the circumstances that gave rise to the NPHC groups and the non NPHC groups. That alone would make the purpose and structure of the organizations somewhat different. But like I said before there was no hard intended with the comments I made. And let me add, my opinions are my own and do not reflect the opinions of any of the 9 NPHC organizations.

SapphireSphinx9 · #86 03-09-2003, 09:20 PM

Well first off, I would like to say that I'm not confronting anyone, or trying to offend anyone... If you feel offended, please accept my apologies now.

I am a Founding Sister of the Iota Gamma Chapter of Phi Sigma Sigma. I am also white.

Let me tell you about our chapter... From the Founders to the newly initiated sister (this past Friday) we have had a total of:
32 members of Hispanic descent
7 members of European descent
6 members of Asian/Islander descent
3 members of African descent

As you can see, even though we are a NPC (or “traditionally white”) sorority, we are not so traditional at our chapter. The sad thing is, that we have had a lot of interested women that are black, that have felt the pressure of joining either AKA, ZFB, SGR, or DSQ. Unfortunately, these women did not join us because of those pressures from parents/friends/society.

Now let me tell you about my situation...

Phi Sigma Sigma was not one of my first choices... I didn’t even want to know about Phi Sig, because I was under the impression that they were a typical “white” sorority... Rich, blonde, and stuck up. So I first went to the Sigma Gamma Rho (a NPHC sorority) table and asked them for some information. I knew the President at the time, and so she eagerly handed me the paperwork I needed. The reaction from the other women sitting at this table were not the same as hers. I got the feeling that I wasn’t good enough for them. Because of this unwelcoming feeling, I left the table. (I'm definately not saying that their feelings toward me were meant to be this... It's just how I felt.) I then went to the Sigma Lambda Gamma (a Latina sorority) table and asked for information. They were more than happy to tell me about SLG, and invited me to upcoming events that they were hosting. To make a long story short, it just so happened that I ended up going to a Phi Sigma Sigma interest group informational, and fell in love with them. We are an International sorority, and were “the first nonsectarian sorority; open to diverse membership from inception and the only one with a ritual that was not based in scripture.”

My parents never had a problem with what kind of organization I joined, whether it be “white”, “black”, “green”, “blue”, or anything else. They’ve always been pretty open minded about other cultures since I was little. I was in African-American Dance Club and Polynesian Dance Club in middle school, and my parents have always encouraged me to learn different languages, and about different cultures. Even down to the men I date... My parents, especially my mom, tell me that “it’s not the cover of the book that matters... but what’s inside.” Now I’m not going to lie and say that all of my family is like that... I have a few very closed minded relatives that think some pretty awful things about other ethic groups. But thankfully my parents let me “taste” a little bit of everything, and I’ve learned that these relatives of mine are not so brilliant as they think.

With all of this said, (sorry that this is so long) I don’t think that society should put such pressure on people to join certain groups. And I really don’t think that it is fair for parents to threaten their children that they will not pay for their tuition anymore if they join the wrong organization! What does that accomplish? Someone will get the raw end of the stick with that one... Either the child, for not being able to join who they want to... Or the parents, when the child joins that group anyway, and finds a way to provide for themselves... And this goes for any ethnic group...

Anyways, thanks for listening to my 2 cents.

Fraternally,
Beth

cash78mere · #87 03-09-2003, 11:44 PM

that was a nice post sapphiresphinx9

SapphireSphinx9 · #88 03-10-2003, 12:15 AM

Thank you Cash.

GPhiBLtColonel · #89 03-10-2003, 01:07 AM

...just wanted to add that in our little ol' alum chapter of about 16-18 members, there are three active members who are 50-year members...and one is over 60 years involved & still drives herself to events!

To all those who said they've been asked why they are still involved with their sorority and they're not even in college any more...

I just got asked the very same question the other day! If I had a dollar for each time a comment like that was made to me or a question like that was asked of me...well, I'd be a rich cranky old broad!

There are many involved in their sororities for life -- whether NPC or NPHC --- guess someone could tally up the numbers and tell us exactly but why? What's the point?

It is really sad that one's race, religion, or gender still matters nowadays...I long for the day when those things just won't mean squat!

In closing, I'd like to cite this quote from one of our country's most distinguished citizens, Martin Luther King Jr:

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.

AMEN TO THAT!!!!!!

phikappapsiman · #90 03-10-2003, 01:09 AM

Thank you SO MUCH kddani and Sistermadly!!!

I really appreciate the encouragement!

"...Why can't we all just get along???"