Paula Deen's use of the "N"-Word

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Andre Turner

Mizeree I2K is right and you are wrong.

Did you read the post that you quoted? He said we've come a long way, but haven't gotten there yet. How does that make him a disgrace?

Originally Posted by Kevin

meh.. oppression olympics as previously noted. Let's also recognize that whites did the same thing, perhaps worse, to Native Americans, and did it in a more overt way by slaughtering them and then attempting an overt cultural genocide.

Tell that to James Byrd's family.

Historically, black Americans' plight really isn't all that different or special. It is just one group which was oppressed and/or enslaved for a period of time. Historically speaking, those groups tend to do better when they assimilate rather than not.

I don't think there's a need to be the most special oppressed group. No one is trying to minimize what other groups have gone through. However, the fact that we still have people alive who felt the direct effects of this plight means that people are going to talk about it more. 1600s =/= 1960s.

Also, while I hear a lot of gritching about this dominant culture, what is the alternative to assimilation? Making up your own culture from scratch just because of your own perceived differences in skin pigmentation? Isn't it true that many, if not most black Americans have some European ancestry as well? Is that insignificant in your forming of your cultural identity?

Umm...What?

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Umm...What?

This is a shame but I am glad people in this thread finally stopped bullshitting. LOL. Kevin is an illustration of privilege, racism, and the importance of changing high school and college history classes.

Whiteness does not rule the world (aside from power and privilege), white people were not doing the world a favor, and the white diaspora was not the first and only culture and civilization around the world. The TransAtlantic Slave Trade greatly tore apart cultures (different cultures and religions) but it did not completely remove cultures. The white diaspora did not introduce culture, religion, and civilization to ANYONE, not to the various Native American cultures, not to people of the African diaspora, not to people of the Asian diaspora, etc. Black Americans as a collective were stripped of native languages and other things, and introduced to cultural artifacts of the white diaspora and slavery. However, Blacks were not stripped of everything and there are "Black American/African American cultures" (Kevin needs to research the hundreds of books, articles, professional organizations, social organizations, and public service organizations that are illustrations) that both survived in spite of, and are a result of, people of the African diaspora assimilating (in various extents) into whiteness. And those of us who interact with nonwhites in the USA and around the world know that there are far more similarities across the nonwhite disapora than differences--and those similarities are not all remnants of slavery. They are remnants of rich cultures, many of which have existed for centuries.

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

If you want to compare blacks to the Irish (as did the poster to whom I was responding), you are an order of magnitude off.

I think she was moreso declaring "my family didn't own slaves." You know, the cliche' phrase that whites have used for generations.

You are fully aware of this so the following is for the folks who are unfamiliar with this stuff (there is some interesting literature on the formation and social psychology of whiteness including work done by Roediger, Ignatiev, and even The Boston Phoenix's 1997 publication entitled "White Like Me"):

In the 1800s-1900s many Irish hated the idea of slavery and newly immigrated Irish were first considered "white ni**ers" when they first migrated to the United States of America. More specifically, ghettos were still identified through their true meaning (racially homogenous neighborhoods) and newly immigrated populations, including the Irish, tended to live in these neighborhoods until they were able to assimilate into whiteness and make enough money to live elsewhere. Blacks were referred to as "smoked Irish" and the Irish were referred to as "ni**ers turned inside out."
As with other white racial and ethnic groups (ethnic Jews are a more complex story), the Irish used social institutions and racism to prove that they were just like the other whites, should be able to assimilate into whiteness, and should have the resulting political and social privileges. Being Irish and Catholic continued to be one difficulty (as evidenced by labor market struggles, President John F. Kennedy and family, etc.) but the assimilation into whiteness occurred and the privileges that come with it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Tell that to James Byrd's family.

Talk about overplayed. There is black on white hate crime as well. If only whatshisname could be here to post a new thread every time something resembling it happened. It's all pretty heinous stuff. You can't judge an entire society by what a few redneck thugs decided to do. It's as unreasonable to judge our culture by what happened to James Byrd as it would be for me to judge any other culture by the actions of a few of its miscreants. As I recall, the murderers of James Byrd have been severely punished. One has been put to death. That should actually be an indicator of how far we've come. 50-60 years ago, law enforcement probably wouldn't have touched that case.

Umm...What?

Yeah, never mind with that. It was an incomplete thought. To complete it, I would suggest that instead of as a culture, looking towards assimilation, or at least integration, we've seen the creation of holidays like Kwanzaa from whole cloth in order to provide some sort of rigid separate identity. I think there is a separate black American culture or subculture which is more of a culture than a racial thing. You won't see many African immigrants, for example, participating in stereotypical African-American culture.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Historically, black Americans' plight really isn't all that different or special. It is just one group which was oppressed and/or enslaved for a period of time. Historically speaking, those groups tend to do better when they assimilate rather than not.

If you want to compare blacks to Native Americans, fine. If you want to compare blacks to the Irish (as did the poster to whom I was responding), you are an order of magnitude off.

[UVA17]

Wow, sucks to be some of you! All that bitterness must sting

[DubaiSis]

I think someone has been watching too much Fox News.

[Andre Turner]

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

While we still have long way to go, you really can't say that we we haven't come a long way. Slavery no longer exist, and there are legal protections against other kinds of discrimination. In fact this whole Paula Deen thing illustrates how far we have gone because of the sheer amount of outrage her comments are causing.

Mizeree I2K is right and you are wrong. After every black man whose neck was hung and stretched from a tree. After every black man whose testicles were cut and castrated. After every black man whose body was stoked and burned to ashes over fiery coals. After every one of the black women who were violently gang-raped over and over. After every pregnant black woman who was savagely beaten until the unborn child fell from her womb…you have the nerve…the nerve to open your mouth and speak such vile ignorance? You are a disgust not only to your own race, but to the human race. You need to take your own hand, and just smack the hell out of yourself.

Talking about "Slavery is in the past"? No, slavery is in the present! Locked-up in our slave brains, because we are still being a devil-damned slave to the white man, today!

"European Americans" have inherited what our parents have passed on to us. The children of slaves, and they, the slave master's children, have inherited all that our fore parents have accumulated yesterday. The question is what is the difference between what we have inherited and what they have inherited? They ("European Americans") are the beneficiaries economically, attitudinally, politically, and socially.

We are the inheritors of everything that our fore parents accumulated as slaves, economically, attitudinally, politically, and socially…which turns out to be a big bunch of pain. We inherited the consequential after-effects of centuries of mental, emotional, and physical abuse, while our white counterparts today, are directly benefiting today, from the suffering of our parents, yesterday.

Our little white "friends" that we compete with today have started off many laps behind the game in handicapped conditions of injury. And they are still deathly afraid to run against our greatness. There is no true equity.

We inherited the past. As a result of slavery, we inherited stress, inferiority, self-hate, insanity, and an automatic social condemnation. As a result of slavery, our little white "friends" inherited a self-confidence, money, and automatic social status. Yes, today is effected by yesterday.

"European Americans" are benefiting from what happened then, although they may not directly know it. We are suffering from what happened then, although we may not directly know it. And for those of you "other" white people who believe you are free and clear of guilt, you are not. Whether you are Irish, Italian, Polish, German, Scottish, British etc. etc. etc. as long as you are living in America, you are also DIRECTLY benefiting from the same thing.

The oppression of slavery hasn't changed, just the technology of that oppression. Ancient to modern. Yesterday to today.

[Sen's Revenge]

C--African American Cooking with Paula Deen

[Tulip86]

As a white female from a middle class family born in the eighties I think I will never know oppression the way a lot of minorities have in the past, and a lot of those groups still experience it today. Who am I to decide for another when they get to feel oppressed. I think a lot of people with my background, are very unaware of the fact that, usually, it's a lot easier to be white, and that a lot of oppression and discrimination based on skin color and heritage still occurs.

I think a lot op people try not to be racist, and "not see color". But, from a psychological prospective, people tend to feel most at ease around those they perceive to be "like them". Does feeling more at ease around people who look, act, talk like you and have the same cultural background make you racist? Not in my book. But to me, excluding, oppressing, distrusting and avoiding another culture does.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by UVA17

Phil talks, and this is what the rest of us hear:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJyfozezSpI

Well, if you're paying attention and half-way open-minded, you might hear the opinions of someone whose professional activities involve this very area, so who just may know more about the research, the data and the issues involved than you do.

You are, of course, free to disagree with her opinions. But the petulant responses you've provided so far don't add much credibility to your own opinions.

Originally Posted by agzg

I must have missed this (the wedding - I knew about your business). Congrats!

I missed it, too. Congrats, IotaMan, and best wishes to you both.

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Linguistic Swerve - Should it be "home's" or "Holme's", "homes" or "Holmes"? I found http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=holmes and http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=homes, so it looks like both are contextually correct.

Please, let's not open that can of worms again. This thread has enough open cans in it already.

Originally Posted by Tulip86

As a white female from a middle class family born in the eighties I think I will never know oppression the way a lot of minorities have in the past, and a lot of those groups still experience it today. Who am I to decide for another when they get to feel oppressed.

This, except for being a white male born in the 60s. I can try to listen and understand, and I do try to listen and understand, but I know that I simply won't ever experience what many others experience on a daily basis.

As for color-blindness, I gave up on that a long time ago. I can't be color-blind -- I'm not sure anyone truly can be -- and I'm not sure it helps to try to be. I also gave up on thinking of myself as a person without prejudices. I find it more constructive to acknowledge that some prejudices are there even when I don't want them to be, try my best to be aware of them (they can show themselves at the most unexpected times) and try to take power over them rather than let them subtly control me. It's an ongoing process.

[UVA17]

Wow, Dr. Phil. No offense, but you are one angry black person. Do you live in a place where you never have to run into white people? Or do you manage to swallow your hatred long enough to interact with them? Just askin.

[agzg]

Originally Posted by UVA17

Wow, Dr. Phil. No offense, but you are one angry black person. Do you live in a place where you never have to run into white people? Or do you manage to swallow your hatred long enough to interact with them? Just askin.

Trolling troll is trolling. Sit down while the grown ups are talking.

[UVA17]

Originally Posted by agzg

Trolling troll is trolling. Sit down while the grown ups are talking.

I'm sorry, did I offend your delicate sensibilities, agzg? I guess I'm just expected to shut up and tow the party line. But I'll keep talking as long as you ridiculous fools keep bellyaching (or until I get bored, whichever comes first)

[agzg]

Originally Posted by UVA17

I'm sorry, did I offend your delicate sensibilities, agzg? I guess I'm just expected to shut up and tow the party line. But I'll keep talking as long as you ridiculous fools keep bellyaching (or until I get bored, whichever comes first)

At least come up with something more entertaining. This troll line is weak.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by UVA17

Wow, Dr. Phil. No offense, but you are one angry black person. Do you live in a place where you never have to run into white people? Or do you manage to swallow your hatred long enough to interact with them? Just askin.

Since this is your second post, I want you to find solace in the fact that, yes, I see you. We see you. Hello.