Chicago Teachers Set Strike Date - Page 6

agzg · #76 09-13-2012, 04:03 PM

Not to mention that tuition costs are rising among the public sector as well as the private sector, and when things were really bad in 2009/2010 with the economy, community colleges were turning potential students away because they didn't have room.

DeltaBetaBaby · #77 09-13-2012, 04:10 PM

At my university, TA's get paid less than the school estimates the cost of living to be, and then puts a clause in the TA contract forbidding us from outside employment. I have avoided loans by having my own small business, but the vast majority of grad students have no choice but to borrow.

SydneyK · #78 09-13-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

At my university, TA's get paid less than the school estimates the cost of living to be, and then puts a clause in the TA contract forbidding us from outside employment. I have avoided loans by having my own small business, but the vast majority of grad students have no choice but to borrow.

That's how it was where I earned my Master's degree as well. I avoided having to take out loans only because I worked two jobs over the summer (the contract applied only to the academic year). Since I worked two jobs, I never had any time to spend the money, so it wasn't as hard to save it as I had thought it might be.

AGDee · #79 09-13-2012, 05:52 PM

I think the "going to community college" option is overrated too. You have to figure in the cost of buying, operating and maintaining a car into that "money saving" equation. Everybody I know who goes to CC first ends up taking 3 years at the college/university because a lot of their credits don't transfer or more specific classes were required. So were the two years at the community college really cheaper than one year at a university? No.

I know a couple kids who did the military option. Sadly, they never lived to get to go to college. There was one who went to med school who had to do his service after he graduated. He was assured there was no way, as a primary care physician, that he'd go to Afghanistan. Til he went. And was killed. That's a pretty major risk for an education. A lot of them do make it back, but it's a high risk option.

I'd have to really sit down and do the math to figure out whether going half time and working full time at a minimum wage job, taking twice as long to graduate is financially worth the lack of loans. You lose four years that you could be working at a career job instead.

Scholarships can be awesome, but a very limited of young people get full rides. I know my daughter is at one of the most expensive schools in the country and will graduate with a lot of debt, but it will only be about $4000 more than if she had attended a local "cheap" state school once the expected family contribution is figured.

We've gotten way off track from the strike thing. I'd brought up the $23/hour pay for auto workers (who rarely have student loans, truth be told, so those don't really matter in that circumstance.. but they do for teachers).

The other thing about the teacher evaluations was figuring the students' evaluations. Nuts. And if an 8th grade teacher gets kids who didn't learn to read in 1st grade, are they really supposed to make sure those test scores are up there?

Teachers' skills are not the only variable in how well a child learns. There is really no way to isolate that variable.

DeltaBetaBaby · #80 09-13-2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGDee

The other thing about the teacher evaluations was figuring the students' evaluations. Nuts. And if an 8th grade teacher gets kids who didn't learn to read in 1st grade, are they really supposed to make sure those test scores are up there?

It actually cuts the other way, too. If your students come in performing at a very high level, there is very little room to show improvement. Further, 70% of CPS teachers teach subjects that are not tested, so their pay would be based on the school's performance, per the board's original proposal.

Also, one of the big issues for students from low-income families is summer retention. So, if you compare a student's performance year-over-year, it is not the same as comparing a student's performance at the beginning and end of the school year.

Sciencewoman · #81 09-13-2012, 10:11 PM

My best friend's husband just posted on Facebook that he has 91 high school students in his last hour class...up from 87 yesterday. There are only seats for 28. The district is "working on it." His FB page has been lighting up with fellow teachers' comments. Forget the union...he should probably call the fire marshall!

AGDee · #82 09-13-2012, 11:48 PM

He really should call the fire marshall! That's a great idea! As a parent, I would be livid.

AOII Angel · #83 09-14-2012, 12:11 AM

I also think it's funny in this economy where so many people are unemployed or underemployed that amanda6035 thinks every student could work their way through college without student loans. Not realistic. I was very fortunate to have a full paid scholarship to college, but I borrowed all of my tuition for medical school...all $80,000 of it, which was a bargain when it comes to med school! Could I have worked? Absolutely not. Could my parents have put me through? Nope. Could I have earned a scholarship? I got $1000 from AOII. That helped but didn't preclude the need for loans. I could have joined the military, but I am very glad I didn't. I have many friends that did and have done 2-3 tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. The military gets their money's worth. I'll take the loans any day.

AOII Angel · #84 09-14-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

It actually cuts the other way, too. If your students come in performing at a very high level, there is very little room to show improvement. Further, 70% of CPS teachers teach subjects that are not tested, so their pay would be based on the school's performance, per the board's original proposal.

Also, one of the big issues for students from low-income families is summer retention. So, if you compare a student's performance year-over-year, it is not the same as comparing a student's performance at the beginning and end of the school year.

This makes no sense.

DeltaBetaBaby · #85 09-14-2012, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

This makes no sense.

My statement, or the concept?

High-stakes testing is an excuse to defund inner-city schools, period. It is a racist and classist policy, and our schools are as segregated now as they've ever been, at least in Chicago.

AOII Angel · #86 09-14-2012, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

My statement, or the concept?

High-stakes testing is an excuse to defund inner-city schools, period. It is a racist and classist policy, and our schools are as segregated now as they've ever been, at least in Chicago.

The whole idea that you'll base teacher performance off of test results that have nothing to do with what they are teaching. That is asinine.

DeltaBetaBaby · #87 09-14-2012, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The whole idea that you'll base teacher performance off of test results that have nothing to do with what they are teaching. That is asinine.

Well, yes. But this allows them to either shut down schools, or make them "turnaround" schools where they hire young teacher for less money and then see no improvements.

AOII Angel · #88 09-14-2012, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Well, yes. But this allows them to either shut down schools, or make them "turnaround" schools where they hire young teacher for less money and then see no improvements.

It's ridiculous. How did we get to this point? Teaching to the test at the detriment of real learning? I feel like changes are often made just to make changes. We see it in medical education too where now they are taking away anatomy. Yes! No anatomy for your doctors! Who needs to learn anatomy? They'll just teach the surgeons and radiologists what they need to know when they get to residency. So the primary care physicians don't need to know what the specialists are talking about? I don't know where they come up with this crap.

indygphib · #89 09-14-2012, 06:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The whole idea that you'll base teacher performance off of test results that have nothing to do with what they are teaching. That is asinine.

Welcome to Indiana. As a teacher of an elective class, a decent chunk of my pay will be determined by my school's overall score on English and Math standardized test scores. How is that fair?

AGDee · #90 09-14-2012, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It's ridiculous. How did we get to this point? Teaching to the test at the detriment of real learning? I feel like changes are often made just to make changes. We see it in medical education too where now they are taking away anatomy. Yes! No anatomy for your doctors! Who needs to learn anatomy? They'll just teach the surgeons and radiologists what they need to know when they get to residency. So the primary care physicians don't need to know what the specialists are talking about? I don't know where they come up with this crap.

It started with No Child Left Behind.

How can they even teach med school without anatomy? As an Occupational Therapist I had gross anatomy with cadaver lab. I can't imagine a doctor not having that.