Congresswoman Gabrielle Gifford of Southern Arizona Shot At Constituent Event

[sky&sea]

Sidetrack...

I had no idea that it was possible to be shot in the head and still survive. I was extremely relieved to learn this, but I'm confused at how this actually works. Does anyone in the medical field know more about these types of situations?

/Sidetrack

[ComradesTrue]

Originally Posted by sky&sea

Sidetrack...

I had no idea that it was possible to be shot in the head and still survive. I was extremely relieved to learn this, but I'm confused at how this actually works. Does anyone in the medical field know more about these types of situations?

/Sidetrack

I am not a physician, but I am a speech pathologist whose speciality area was working with individuals who had traumatic brain injuries. My 10 years experience spanned from ICU, to inpatient rehab, to outpatient/return to work rehab. I saw individuals with gun shot wounds daily.

People survive shootings every day, but "survival" should never imply "returns to normal function." That is a long and arduous road that many never see the end of. Being able to survive, and subsequently the level of functional recovery attained, has many factors:
--- gauge of the gun that was used
--- time post injury that someone was able to receive medical aid
--- amount of swelling in the brain that occurs before and after surgery
--- length of time in coma
--- trajectory of the bullet. Keeping the bullet on one side of the brain causes less damage than a bullet that crosses into the other hemisphere
-- location of the bullet/damage. Different areas of the brain are responsible for different cognitive and motor funtions, and depending on what specific areas were hit will impact the deficits that one has. It is possible to completely miss all key areas, but this would be the exception rather than the rule.
-- extent of the damage caused by the bullet and shattered bone fragments

By no means am I making ANY presumptions about this case. I wish nothing but the best for her. I just caution all who listen to media reports that individuals with brain injuries may be "raising two fingers" (blech!) as that sign does not mean anything in terms of long term recovery. I have seen some VERY imparied people raise their two fingers for the physicans. It means that one is alive and able to hear, but really means little in terms of *functional* recovery of someone with a brain injury. Have I seen individuals recover to the point of returning to their prior job? You bet. Have I seen many others who were required to live an adaptive lifestyle? Sadly, yes.

Again, not making ANY assumptions on her. Just stating that we should all be cautious in interpreting media reports.

[sky&sea]

Thanks for the information, Blondie93!

[AZTheta]

Blondie93 has done a superb job of explaining the ramifications of a brain injury.

I do know this: it was a left hemisphere through-and-through shot, reportedly back to front, exiting above the left eye. Rep. Giffords is being kept in a medically induced coma. The neurosurgeon spoke at this morning's press conference and described her injury with enough medical precision that I, as another speech-language pathologist, could follow and I have an idea of the path the bullet took. It was, however, difficult for the media to understand, and he stopped himself from being specific or answering many detailed questions. A section of her left skull has been removed (and will be replaced when the time comes) in an effort to reduce the impact of the swelling. There are other medical procedures that can be implemented to reduce or minimize the impact of the brain swelling which has and will occur as a result of the insult the brain suffered. She is not out of any woods yet; the doctors outlined a very long recovery and rehabilitation period, which also leads me to believe that there was some significant brain injury incurred.

UMC is a Level One Trauma center and I am confident that Rep. Giffords received exceptional medical treatment. It was 38 minutes from the time she was shot until she entered the OR. The EMTs stabilized and transported her without doing any unnecessary procedures that could have negatively impacted the operation she underwent, according to the Trauma Surgeon and Neurosurgeon who spoke. However, those 38 minutes... no way to tell what the long term effects are going to be, just as Blondie93 stated.

Keep all the survivors in prayer; theirs is a long road ahead.

[KSUViolet06]

^^^I worked with veterans with TBIs, and you all are correct. There's no way to tell the scope of her injuries right now. She could be headed for months to years of rehab.

[ThetaDancer]

My uncle is a judge for the Arizona Superior Court in Pima County and my aunt is an attorney for the City of Tucson; they were both very close with Judge Roll. My cousin (who goes to school in DC but was home in Tucson for winter break) was an intern for Giffords over the summer. I called them Saturday to check in and they were all sobbing. I'm still rather shaken up after hearing just how close to home this hit for them.

My prayers are with Giffords for a miraculous recovery and with the families and loved ones of all of the victims.

[Kappamd]

Fiance just got an email from his aunt, who is an attorney in Tucson. She is/was close with both Gabby Giffords and Judge Roll, and is extremely distraught over what happened. Turns out she was supposed to be at that event, but decided not to attend that morning. That Safeway is just around the corner from her, and where she shops every week. I think we're both a little shaken, as we had all assumed she was at her home in Mexico at the time.

[DaemonSeid]

Weapon in rampage was banned under Clinton-era law

The high-capacity magazine of the semiautomatic pistol used in the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and more than a dozen other people on Saturday would have been illegal to manufacture and difficult to purchase under the Clinton-era assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004.

According to police and media reports, the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, legally purchased a semiautomatic Glock 19 with a high-capacity magazine in November at a gun store in Tucson. Under the assault weapons ban, it was illegal to manufacture or sell new high-capacity magazines, defined as those that hold more than 10 rounds. The magazines used by Loughner had 31 rounds each, according to police.

If Loughner had been using a traditional magazine, "it would have drastically reduced the number of shots he got off before he had to pause, unload and reload -- and he could have been stopped," Daniel Vice, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, tells Salon.

http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle_...lt_weapons_ban

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Weapon in rampage was banned under Clinton-era law

The high-capacity magazine of the semiautomatic pistol used in the shooting of Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and more than a dozen other people on Saturday would have been illegal to manufacture and difficult to purchase under the Clinton-era assault weapons ban, which expired in 2004.

According to police and media reports, the alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner, legally purchased a semiautomatic Glock 19 with a high-capacity magazine in November at a gun store in Tucson. Under the assault weapons ban, it was illegal to manufacture or sell new high-capacity magazines, defined as those that hold more than 10 rounds. The magazines used by Loughner had 31 rounds each, according to police.

If Loughner had been using a traditional magazine, "it would have drastically reduced the number of shots he got off before he had to pause, unload and reload -- and he could have been stopped," Daniel Vice, senior attorney at the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, tells Salon.

http://www.salon.com/news/gabrielle_...lt_weapons_ban

This isn't relevant. It's just not. Stop. Making. This. About. Politics.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This isn't relevant. It's just not. Stop. Making. This. About. Politics.

Welcome to the 24-hour news cycle.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

Welcome to the 24-hour news cycle.

I'm aware of it. I'm encouraging DS to not lower the intellectual level of THIS conversation. We have frodo and max for that.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

This isn't relevant. It's just not. Stop. Making. This. About. Politics.

hey drole...BTW...no, it's not about politics, but what the article was stating is that had certain laws regarding his firearms were still in place, there would have been the possibility that he may not have caused so much damage.

Just a what if...no right vs left wing argument.

Iam sure what we will see as an end result are politicians and gun lobbyists battling for new gun measure laws just like what took place after the V Tech and Columbine shootings.


BUT...this muthafuggah was batshit crazy!!

moving on!

[AZTheta]

Kappamd, the entire city of Tucson is devastated. We cannot get away from this. It is raw and painful beyond imagination.

I have a heightened compassion for the people of NYC, Oklahoma City, and other areas where there have been horrific and violent acts. Tucson has retained much of a "small town" feel (as I wrote earlier) and the legal community is shaken to the core. The medical community is feeling the effects, and law enforcement is stressed to the limit with all the attention and activity since Saturday. The community is pulling together as many resources as possible to support the children in Christina-Taylor Green's school, as well as other children throughout the community.

It could have been any Safeway, on any corner, in Tucson, on any Saturday. Gabby Giffords has been conducting "Congress On Your Corner" since her first term in office. John Roll was headed home from mass, and he stopped in to say hello to Gabby and thank her for supporting him in his efforts to get relief for the overburdened Federal Courts (due to the sheer volume of immigration cases stemming from our proximity to the Mexican border). Other people were there to meet our Representative; she has always been accessible to her constituency. It was just another Saturday morning...and then it wasn't.

It will never been the same here. We are picking up the pieces, we are planning funerals and memorials, we are going about the business of death, and life will go on.

[DaemonSeid]

Fine...turn to Hoarders!!

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Fine...turn to Hoarders!!

What?