African American women in CPC, opinions, please?

[ellebud]

FSUZeta: Yes, my campus, at that time, was restricted religiously. (As I wrote in my recruitment story there may have been Black and Asian girls goiing through rush, but I don't remember.) The year that I pledged there was one Jewish girl, blond hair and blue eyes with an "altered" last name, who pledged a non Jewish house. We pledge one girl who was Christian and that was a first. Now, happily things are different here. My sorority closed down because Jewish girls began having options.

An historically Jewish house recently came back to campus. They are diverse. And, at the moment they are small, but growing.

I know that at the "school across town" there were opportunities for diversity, but at that time, in that place...no.

[FSUZeta]

that's too bad. every chapter missed out on a fabulous member!

[ellebud]

Originally Posted by FSUZeta

that's too bad. every chapter missed out on a fabulous member!

First of all, thank you. I think that I would have benefited from being in any house because, as the years have passed I am still friends with a few of my sisters and I benefitted in many ways from my membership. And life has a way of working its' way out.

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ellebud

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

*cough*

Tokenism.

*cough*

[ellebud]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

*cough*

Tokenism.

*cough*

Sorry, no. She was gorgeous and semi famous in those years. Every house shows off their best and brightest in present time and the history of the house as in we've always been great. (as in those days, "you join us and you can be with gorgeous girls going to fabulous events" and "look how long we have been doing fabulous events!") It definitely wasn't along the lines of, look how liberal and nice we are. It was, "we are so gorgeous and always have been!!!"

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ellebud

Sorry, no. She was gorgeous and semi famous in those years. Every house shows off their best and brightest in present time and the history of the house as in we've always been great. (as in those days, "you join us and you can be with gorgeous girls going to fabulous events" and "look how long we have been doing fabulous events!") It definitely wasn't along the lines of, look how liberal and nice we are. It was, "we are so gorgeous and always have been!!!"

I'm not just talking about that.

But, let's pretend that I was. Given the 1960s context, I do not believe there wasn't a trace of "liberal white people with the beautiful and famous Black person" going on there. I wouldn't believe you even if you claimed there wasn't; and you most likely can't remember 100% of what your 1960s college brain was thinking and you definitely don't know what was entrenched in the other women's 1960s thought processes and actions.

You have to understand that there is something embedded in comments such as: "...we pledged a Black girl," "she was NOT the first btw," "She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us" and "Our first Black girl...Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous." These are actually very typical majority-minority relations comments that illustrate tokenism on the part of the majority and the minority (the token). I'm not claiming any bad intentions on your part. I am talking about structural dynamics and how we consciously and subconsciously reinforce them everyday.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by ellebud

First of all, thank you. I think that I would have benefited from being in any house because, as the years have passed I am still friends with a few of my sisters and I benefitted in many ways from my membership. And life has a way of working its' way out.

I will say that I transferred to the school across town and reaffiliated there. During my senior year 1970s we pledged a Black girl. She was NOT the first btw. Pat (her first name) was also involved with the BSU. She informed us that on campus SHE couldn't recognize us or acknowledge us. I graduated before I heard the end of the story.

Our first Black girl, who graduated in the late sixties, was a former Miss Teen USA, or California...perhaps runner up? Obviously she was stunning. During rush when we had our scrapbooks out, somehow her picture was always showing. NOT because she was Black...because she was drop dead gorgeous.

So "Pat" joined and didn't want to let people know she was a member? I know this was back when it was common to wait a semester for initiation, so I'm guessing you don't know how that story ended? Seems like a good way to not get initiated as a sister and not have to worry about anyone knowing.

[Senusret I]

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

On another note, this also makes me consider people who ask why I would consider pledging an NPHC fraternity knowing I could be shunned as a gay man. If I put myself in their shoes, I think I can empathize with them even more.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Right. To many women, they've always been The Only, and have never felt shunned at any point in their lives.

It doesn't occur to them that potentially being The Only in a sorority (or one of a handful) would be any different than being the Only in their school/peer group that they grew up in (which has been a relatively uneventful experience).

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^ sigmadiva, do you think it occurs to them that they might be shunned? Or even whether they had ever been shunned previously. Remember that rush is the first time a lot of these women have been "judged."

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

The summer before my senior year in high school, a pre-college week at a well-loved and regarded Southern university. It was geared towards black students who were interested in certain career fields. I was pretty excited about it, since the college was very popular in my hometown and I had visited the campus and LOVED it before. Well, I was stunned to find out that, according to most of the girls in the program, I "acted white," I "talked white." Hell, according to a few of them, I even "sneezed white." Seriously? I had never heard anything like that before.

I doubt my experience is that unique...so, if you have teenagers who have experienced that more times than I did, why wouldn't they go NPC, when their friends are doing the same thing?

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

this is what i was thinking about when someone earlier was asking about "the only ones" joining an NPHC.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Exactly. Also, a lot of these girls haven't been shunned by their non-black peers, but by black classmates and relatives. If you're the Only in your social circle, and you haven't been excluded by your white friends--what happens when you go to visit relatives, or you're in a situation where you're around a lot of people of your ethnicity and they accuse you of "acting white"?

It is a reciprocal relationship. Some of these people are not accused of "acting white" because they do things like speak well and get good grades. Afterall, many of us went to all white schools, were always honor students, speak well, but were able to maneuver both worlds quite well (with exception for the people who weren't accustomed to Blacks who spoke well, etc.).

Socialization is powerful and that applies to the things that I typed in the other response to you. If you take someone who has been socialized as the "Black visitor for whiteness/white privilege," that will reflect when they are all-Black settings. The Black person who is no longer "the Black person here" now has to deal with not being the center of attention. Now they are just like the rest and they will be called out if they appear disconnected, discontent, insecure, unaware, and socially inadequate based on cultural identifiers.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

It is a reciprocal relationship. Some of these people are not accused of "acting white" because they do things like speak well and get good grades. Afterall, many of us went to all white schools, were always honor students, speak well, but were able to maneuver both worlds quite well (with exception for the people who weren't accustomed to Blacks who spoke well, etc.).

Socialization is powerful and that applies to the things that I typed in the other response to you. If you take someone who has been socialized as the "Black visitor for whiteness/white privilege," that will reflect when they are all-Black settings. The Black person who is no longer "the Black person here" now has to deal with not being the center of attention. Now they are just like the rest and they will be called out if they appear disconnected, discontent, insecure, unaware, and socially inadequate based on cultural identifiers.

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

Co-sign!

Black culture cannot be reduced to low socioeconomic status, bad grades, and "broken English" and "Ebonics." There is more to understanding and identifying with Blackness and what people mean when they think someone is disconnected from it.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

This is sooo true and I wish people would get it. I have navigated both worlds (predominantly black vs. predominantly white) all my life and noticed that when a Black person is called out for "acting white" by other Blacks, it's not always because the person is being accused of speaking well and having high academic standards. A lot of times they are speaking of the person's disconnection to their culture and other Blacks. I have watched some of these persons purposely not speak or interact with other Black people and try to act like and do what their white peers were doing, including allowing their own hair to break off and fall out because they were washing it every day and using products (with drying agents) not meant for their hair texture. This kind of thing is what is meant often times when a Black person is accused of "acting white."

Eek. People actually DO this?