Feds to file lawsuit over Arizona immigration law

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I thought this deserved to be posted from your link:
[/LIST]After being here for two months, Phoenix is a very clean, safe city. I feel much more safe here than I did in Baltimore.

Those stats are essentially meaningless without accounting for causation/correlation problems, though.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Those stats are essentially meaningless without accounting for causation/correlation problems, though.

Sure, but no one has showed that illegal immigration leads to an increase in crime either. They just flash the stats.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Sure, but no one has showed that illegal immigration leads to an increase in crime either. They just flash the stats.

Right - I'll agree with that completely. For both sides, crime stats are the dog and pony show to avoid discussing the real problems with policy on either side (namely, that they don't address incentives/motivation for illegal entry - it's easier to build a fence than start from scratch).

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Those stats are essentially meaningless without accounting for causation/correlation problems, though.

I was thinking that when they compared the current violent crime stats of Detroit, which has been economically depressed for generations, to San Antonio, which has economically grown by leaps and bounds during the last decade. I think San Antonios lower crime rate has more to do with the economic opportunities available for it's residents than anything else.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

After being here for two months, Phoenix is a very clean, safe city. I feel much more safe here than I did in Baltimore.

i think about 99 percent of the cities in the country are safer than baltimore, lol.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think about 99 percent of the cities in the country are safer than baltimore, lol.

Right? Feeling "safe" or "not safe" is all in ones head. I felt that DC was safe when I lived even though I'm sure there are people that are hella scared of that town, but I was also coming there via Detroit.

[starang21]

i think the argument that illegals are committing all of these violent crimes is sensationalism at best.

but they're still illegal. so they're breaking the law by their mere presence.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think the argument that illegals are committing all of these violent crimes is sensationalism at best.

but they're still illegal. so they're breaking the law by their mere presence.

While that is true it doesn't answer the question of what we are to do with them. Amnesty is an option that would cut down on the ancillary crimes committed by illegals such as driving without a license and ID theft/fraud, not to mention they wouldn't be illegals anymore. Easy money.

[starang21]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

While that is true it doesn't answer the question of what we are to do with them. Amnesty is an option that would cut down on the ancillary crimes committed by illegals such as driving without a license and ID theft/fraud, not to mention they wouldn't be illegals anymore. Easy money.

amnesty is the worst idea that one can have. it's a slap in the face of all the naturalized citizens who obtained citizenship properly.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by starang21

amnesty is the worst idea that one can have. it's a slap in the face of all the naturalized citizens who obtained citizenship properly.

I'm not an advocate for amnesty at all, in fact I'm against it but it is an option. The way I see it is like this, we had an amnesty back in 1986 and yet today we have anywhere between 12-18 million illegals in the country. What exactly did amnesty do other than encourage further illegal immigration?

Also, some of the old timers I know who worked for INS during the amnesty said it was a nightmare and didn't do squat to fix the immigration system.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by starang21

amnesty is the worst idea that one can have. it's a slap in the face of all the naturalized citizens who obtained citizenship properly.

If we were able to establish a track record of mostly stopping illegal immigration and drying up the job opportunities for those already here, amnesty would be fine.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by starang21

i think the argument that illegals are committing all of these violent crimes is sensationalism at best.

but they're still illegal. so they're breaking the law by their mere presence.

Yeah, and that reasoning works as well as the reasoning that every person with a car should be arrested for daily breaking the law as they speed to work. Everyone breaks the law. That's illegal. Think of another argument.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Yeah, and that reasoning works as well as the reasoning that every person with a car should be arrested for daily breaking the law as they speed to work. Everyone breaks the law. That's illegal. Think of another argument.

Speeding isn't normally an offense that warrants an arrest, it's just a civil infraction. Why do people try to justify breaking immigration laws by acting as if it's no big deal or it's a stupid concept to begin with, so why follow it?

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Speeding isn't normally an offense that warrants an arrest, it's just a civil infraction. Why do people try to justify breaking immigration laws by acting as if it's no big deal or it's a stupid concept to begin with, so why follow it?

But breaking a law multiple times is an offense that can get you arrested. There is a difference between acting as if breaking an immigration law is not a big deal and the end of the world. I agree that there is a problem with illegal immigration, but vilifying these people is not the solution. Going on and on and on about how they broke the law is dumb, IMHO.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

But breaking a law multiple times is an offense that can get you arrested. There is a difference between acting as if breaking an immigration law is not a big deal and the end of the world. I agree that there is a problem with illegal immigration, but vilifying these people is not the solution. Going on and on and on about how they broke the law is dumb, IMHO.

I think it's more than that. If I'm not mistaken, "illegal" immigration is a civil offense and doesn't become criminal until a person is deported and then returns again without documentation. Like I said, I could be wrong, so I'd appreciate confirmation from someone who knows.

Anyway, speeding can be a criminal offense. So, if illegal immigration is only civil, speeding is worse.