NYC community board OKs ground zero mosque plans

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Someone compared the current attitude towards Muslims to the anti-communist witchhunts of the 50s. I'm not sure it's a bad comparison.

Keith Olbermann had a monologue a couple nights ago where he said this. I'm not a super huge groupie of his or anything but this was spot on.

[Nanners52674]

TEMECULA, Calif. (KABC) -- Demonstrators clashed Friday over the proposed construction of a mosque right next to a church in Temecula.

As worshipers at the Islamic Center of Temecula Valley arrived to pray, a small but vocal group of about two dozen protesters waved American flags and shouted through bullhorns, denouncing a plan to build a new mosque in another part of the Riverside County town.

"I just don't agree with their beliefs," said Cynthia Daum, who assembled with the protesters across the street from the center.

The existing Islamic center has been operating in Temecula out of an industrial building for almost 10 years. Members have saved the funds to build a new mosque on a 4-acre plot of vacant land in a different area of the city.

Members of the community showed up in front of the Islamic Center to lend support, outnumbering the protestors by about 10 to one. They said they won't let the anger of some community members scare them away from building a mosque because it all comes down to civil rights.

"We respect everyone's opinion - we're American," said Hadi Nael. "They have the right to freedom of speech, we have the freedom of religion."

The proposed location of the mosque, in close proximity to a church, has stirred emotions over what some people see as an intrusion on the community.

"I have witnessed what happens to many nations in the world by the expansion of Islamic ideology," said Mano Bakh. "They destroy the community, they destroy the country."

The Islamic Center will submit its building proposal to the city's Planning Commission in August. Meanwhile, protestors are circulating a petition to stop its progress.
(Copyright ©2010 KABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...ire&id=7585147

[Kevin]

What the hell is it about 9/11 victims which makes them any better than victims of any other tragedy? They've had nine years and have pretty much all received pretty serious cash settlements which victims of other tragedies didn't get. I don't really understand this unthinking, unquestioning reverence towards these people.

We had the bombing in OKC in 1995. In 2004, victims of that tragedy still have their annual memorial ceremony--some dignitaries give speeches, Clinton makes an occasional appearance, someone semi-famous sings Amazing Grace, the end.

These 9/11 victims apparently believe certain religious groups should but $100MM+ projects on hold (or cancel them altogether) because to go on would not be 'compassionate.' For the lack of a better word, bullshit.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What the hell is it about 9/11 victims which makes them any better than victims of any other tragedy? They've had nine years and have pretty much all received pretty serious cash settlements which victims of other tragedies didn't get. I don't really understand this unthinking, unquestioning reverence towards these people.

We had the bombing in OKC in 1995. In 2004, victims of that tragedy still have their annual memorial ceremony--some dignitaries give speeches, Clinton makes an occasional appearance, someone semi-famous sings Amazing Grace, the end.

These 9/11 victims apparently believe certain religious groups should but $100MM+ projects on hold (or cancel them altogether) because to go on would not be 'compassionate.' For the lack of a better word, bullshit.

However insensitive this may come off, I have to agree with you.

[Animate]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What the hell is it about 9/11 victims which makes them any better than victims of any other tragedy? They've had nine years and have pretty much all received pretty serious cash settlements which victims of other tragedies didn't get. I don't really understand this unthinking, unquestioning reverence towards these people.

We had the bombing in OKC in 1995. In 2004, victims of that tragedy still have their annual memorial ceremony--some dignitaries give speeches, Clinton makes an occasional appearance, someone semi-famous sings Amazing Grace, the end.

These 9/11 victims apparently believe certain religious groups should but $100MM+ projects on hold (or cancel them altogether) because to go on would not be 'compassionate.' For the lack of a better word, bullshit.

FTW!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What the hell is it about 9/11 victims which makes them any better than victims of any other tragedy? They've had nine years and have pretty much all received pretty serious cash settlements which victims of other tragedies didn't get. I don't really understand this unthinking, unquestioning reverence towards these people.

We had the bombing in OKC in 1995. In 2004, victims of that tragedy still have their annual memorial ceremony--some dignitaries give speeches, Clinton makes an occasional appearance, someone semi-famous sings Amazing Grace, the end.

These 9/11 victims apparently believe certain religious groups should but $100MM+ projects on hold (or cancel them altogether) because to go on would not be 'compassionate.' For the lack of a better word, bullshit.

What the hell is it?

Bombing 2 extremely well known buildings that everyone in the US can identify, and trying for a 3rd. I mean if a random person would watch a movie filmed in OKC in 1989, they probably wouldn't know which building it was that was bombed. If that same random watched a movie filmed in NYC and DC in 1999, they could easily pick out the WTC and the Pentagon and feel sad when they looked at them.

I absolutely agree with the rest of your post, but you asked why - simplistic as it is, I think that might be a big part of it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What the hell is it?

Bombing 2 extremely well known buildings that everyone in the US can identify, and trying for a 3rd. I mean if a random person would watch a movie filmed in OKC in 1989, they probably wouldn't know which building it was that was bombed.

Probably not even then. The Memorial that sits there now is much more memorable than the building which existed before it. As an aside, the new federal building looks more like a bomb shelter than an office building. Ugly as sin...

If that same random watched a movie filmed in NYC and DC in 1999, they could easily pick out the WTC and the Pentagon and feel sad when they looked at them.

I get it what you're saying. 9/11 victims are much more recognizable, hence easier to utilize for political gain. That doesn't make it right.

I absolutely agree with the rest of your post, but you asked why - simplistic as it is, I think that might be a big part of it.

You're right of course.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by 33girl

What the hell is it?

Bombing 2 extremely well known buildings that everyone in the US can identify, and trying for a 3rd. I mean if a random person would watch a movie filmed in OKC in 1989, they probably wouldn't know which building it was that was bombed. If that same random watched a movie filmed in NYC and DC in 1999, they could easily pick out the WTC and the Pentagon and feel sad when they looked at them.

I absolutely agree with the rest of your post, but you asked why - simplistic as it is, I think that might be a big part of it.

Consider that larger numbers of victims leaves behind much larger numbers of relatives/loved ones to advocate for them as well. There's also the surreal "live" playout of 9/11 that is still seared in peoples conscious, as well as the fact that most americans probably feel 9/11 was a "bigger deal" than the OK bombing.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Consider that larger numbers of victims leaves behind much larger numbers of relatives/loved ones to advocate for them as well.

Does the larger number justify the increase the larger news/media presence?

There's also the surreal "live" playout of 9/11 that is still seared in peoples conscious,

This is a VERY good point . . .

as well as the fact that most americans probably feel 9/11 was a "bigger deal" than the OK bombing.

. . .while this basically says "RACISM".

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

. . .while this basically says "RACISM".

How do you figure? If the sole reason of thinking that 9/11 was worse than the Murrah bombing is because arabs did it, then yes.... but who really thinks like that? I'm in no way trying to diminish the tragedy in Oklahoma but it's doesn't quite stack up to the level of death and destruction we saw on 9/11 or even the aftermath. 9/11 changed this country on so many different levels. How many wars were started because of Oklahoma City?

[agzg]

As long as you're not including Iraq in that "wars started because of 9/11" category....

[AGDee]

Camps like.. Gitmo? Those kinda camps?

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Camps like.. Gitmo? Those kinda camps?

I don't think Gitmo's a very good analog for Japanese internment, to be honest.

Don't get me wrong - Guantanamo is very much an indicator for many of my problems with the US response to 9/11, but it just really isn't apples-to-oranges with internment.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I don't think Gitmo's a very good analog for Japanese internment, to be honest.

Don't get me wrong - Guantanamo is very much an indicator for many of my problems with the US response to 9/11, but it just really isn't apples-to-oranges with internment.

I was trying to understand whether they were referring to camps like the Japanese internment camps or like Nazi Germany's concentration camps or like.. Gitmo. Gitmo is kind of a unique set up and definitely not comparable to either of the others, unless you're there and have done nothing wrong and have no charges against you but you are being held against your will.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Gitmo is kind of a unique set up and definitely not comparable to either of the others, unless you're there and have done nothing wrong and have no charges against you but you are being held against your will.

. . . which is kind of a superficial comparison, and one that definitely violates all sorts of "scope and scale" comparison standards.