Coakley vs. Brown

[AGDee]

Your employer is using an astronomical insurer if the cost is $8500 for an individual with a $2500 deductible. You would pay less if you sought private insurance on your own rather than going with your employer's plan. If you had real choice, you would be able to pick whatever insurance you wanted and you could get a much better deal than that!

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

Can you imagine an auto worker leaving their job to go into another field with an HMO that the rest of the industrialized world is familiar with? I lived in the Detroit 'burbs for a few years and sat in waiting rooms, watched patients check out at the window and pay next to nothing for their care, while I paid a co-pay that was more in line with what everyone else outside of the UAW universe paid.
If you saw that on a regular basis, you'd understand what a "cadillac" plan is.

They want to exempt unions from the cadillac plan tax for the first ten years of this gaggle. I think its bullshit that I have to pay a higher tax because I choose to participate in a high option plan but a union member with a comparable health plan is exempt purely because of POLITICS! This along with the Nebraska Medicare deal and the other vote buying favors is really making me question if government health care is going to help us or make the problem even worse. Pick your Devil, big business or big government.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

They want to exempt unions from the cadillac plan tax for the first ten years of this gaggle. I think its bullshit that I have to pay a higher tax because I choose to participate in a high option plan but a union member with a comparable health plan is exempt purely because of POLITICS! This along with the Nebraska Medicare deal and the other vote buying favors is really making me question if government health care is going to help us or make the problem even worse. Pick your Devil, big business or big government.

I'm still convinced that the purpose of this bill is to 1) make us feel entitled to health care; and 2) drive the cost of private insurance up so high and create such a boondoggle that the public will overwhelmingly support a public system.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm still convinced that the purpose of this bill is to 1) make us feel entitled to health care; and 2) drive the cost of private insurance up so high and create such a boondoggle that the public will overwhelmingly support a public system.

In response to your post; 1) I think a majority of people are already there; 2) so true. One of the AM radio shows constantly plays a clip of Pelosi stating " until the people DEMAND a public option" or something of that nature. Unless you're lucky enough to get your mandatory insurance policy subsidized, this monster is most likely going to be the average American's most costly expense after housing and transportation. I don't see how anyone Making anywhere from 25-45k can afford this without a public option.

[AGDee]

I see adding a public option differently. In my health care system, we are reimbursed for approximately 30% of total charges annually. Hundreds of millions of dollars of care are absorbed by the system annually. As a result, the charges for each procedure have increased to compensate. When I use that 30% number, that is not just uninsured people. That also includes negotiated contracts with the insurers to accept a lower payment for some services as "paid in full", even when it is significantly lower than what we charge. Health care systems/hospitals are railroaded into doing this because it's better than having no patients at all from an insurer. I'll use a concrete example here from when I worked on an adolescent psych day treatment program and was privvy to this info:

Our actual cost per patient was $250/day. Blue Cross negotiated with the hospital to pay certain amounts for certain services. They paid full price for cardiac care, for example, but agreed to only pay $150/day for our outpatient adolescent day treatment program. They made these kinds of arrangements for every type of service offered. Clearly, a hospital cannot exist if they don't accept Blue Cross, so they negotiate as best they can but the insurer will only go so far and the hospital is stuck then. Medicaid paid us $125/day. There was an HMO that paid full price. But guess what? Most of our patients were medicaid or were uninsured altogether. We got $50 a day from community mental health for patients who were uninsured. Our charge for full price? $450/day. We had to make up the difference for the lower payments from Blue Cross, Medicaid and the uninsured through those insurances that would pay full price. Had they all paid, we could have lowered our full charge to $250/day and the unit would still be open today. Instead, we lost a huge amount annually and the program was closed because we couldn't break even. All we needed to do was break even. If we were getting $250/day from every funding source, the HMOs costs would drop significantly and ultimately then, their premiums should drop.

So, when I say we get reimbursed at 30% of what is charged, that's probably equivalent to being reimbursed for about 70-80% of the actual cost to the hospital. Hospitals will not be able to continue to remain open if this continues.

To me, the ideal would be to move to a voucher system giving people a choice beyond what their employer decides is the best insurance plan for them. While health care benefits are a way for employers to try to attract the best, those funds could be channeled into health care vouchers or actual salary increases to compensate. I do believe costs would come down. I know for a fact that there have only been about 4 years of my 22 years in the work force where I used more health care services than the health insurance company received in premiums. That is true for most people. That is what insurance companies bank on. They have pools, currently based on employer, and work on the premise that within a given pool, there will be people who are expensive and people who cost them next to nothing and it will all balance out. This is why individual insurance is higher, because there is not a pool to balance you out if you end up being an expensive person. So, these pools, instead of being employer based, could be region based/state based, etc., like they are for home owners and auto insurances.

I see adding a public option to a system like this as a competitor to the existing insurances to make them provide real competition. I also think there would be a more competitive market with the voucher system. Ultimately, it would provide more competition among health care providers too, so you would see an increase in quality and a decrease in cost overall. I think it would be a MORE capitalistic system than the current system, at the level of the people, rather than at the level of the employer. We as individuals would have choice where we don't truly have choice now.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by shimano

Wrong. The problem is the Democrats. Obama hit the nail on the head with his speech to the DNC.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/01/opinion/01gates.html?hp






The problem with Obama is the lack of accountability. Obama tells the Dems what it takes to be successful and then when they don't do it he wants to blame the system.

It's really easy to point your finger at the poor as the source of all the problems in the health care system, but fixing cost opens a whole can of worms that no one wants to deal with. It's a nice little rallying cry for people who want to oppose the current plan, but no one will ever actually get behind a plan that will actually FIX runaway costs. Do YOU know how to fix the cost problem in healthcare? I doubt it....all you know is you want your healthcare no questions asked.

[AnchorAlum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Your employer is using an astronomical insurer if the cost is $8500 for an individual with a $2500 deductible. You would pay less if you sought private insurance on your own rather than going with your employer's plan. If you had real choice, you would be able to pick whatever insurance you wanted and you could get a much better deal than that!

I'm sorry I was not as clear as I should have been - I have private insurance, which I opted to retain when I went to work for my current employer because the plan offered at work is not good. It costs him about $400 a month for each employee, and instead he just gives me a check for that much, which I use to defray the cost of a preferred PPO.

I'm of an age where I would not be able to get a much better deal than that. My brother is in the business and I know that for a fact.

[AGDee]

Ahhh, ok. That's nice that he gives you that full amount. If we opt out of our $8000 a year plan, we only get $500 for the whole year. Kind of crazy.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shimano

The purpose is redistribution of wealth.

He said so himself during the campaign.

He can only do so much though, and with a Republican legislature (which'll happen in 2-4 years, both houses), he won't be able to accomplish any of that.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by shimano

It is even easier to blame the system as the source of the probems. The only flaw with Obama blaming the system is the rich and the poor both operate under the same system.

How is cutting costs going to open a can of worms? If you think lowering costs will open a can of worms then what do you think will happen if Obama changes the whole system?

I do know how to lower costs. It is not rocket science. Costs were not always out of control. It was only a generation back(two in your hood) that health care was affordable. The solution is to identify the changes that caused the costs to rise in the first place. At that point the cause of the problem can be addressed. Illegals, tort reform, competition, fraud, and slackards that never work.

You know absolutely Jack about the health care system. There are multiple reasons why costs have sky rocketed over the past several decades and the least of the problems have to do with illegals. We have major changes in technology and no system to limit the use of these extremely expensive procedures/drugs, etc. Until you are a part of the health care system, don't come lecture me about controlling costs...I've heard it all before.

[MysticCat]

I'm not sure which I find more amusing: That someone who knows what she's talking about (AOII Angel) is arguing with madmax (shimano) like there's he might actually be convinced or that Kevin is agreeing with mm.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm not sure which I find more amusing: That someone who knows what she's talking about (AOII Angel) is arguing with madmax (shimano) like there's he might actually be convinced or that Kevin is agreeing with mm.

Ahhh....it's just stress release!

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Ahhh....it's just stress release!

Oh believe me -- I understand the sport of it.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Kevin is agreeing with mm.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

LOL.

Nut or nutjob, though?