kappa sigma at fgcu?

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB

The FOX coverage was not 100% accurate. We know how the expansion process works and do indeed plan to change it in favor of an open expansion model. Undeniably, it would be advantageous for all parties if the policies and procedure were ammended in such a way. So, having said this - if Sigma Alpha Epsilon hears of the change in IFC's expansion policy and wants to come on, our Kappa Sigma delegate would vote in favor of this expansion (following procedures of open expansion). Our colony and our alumni recognize the bigger picture here. That picture being that it is not all about us... but also for other students and organizations down the road. Within the next five years, FGCU undergraduate enrollment is projected to increase by 5,000 students (from roughly 10,000 to 15,000). It is estimated that roughly 80% of all Southwest Florida high school graduates are enrolling at FGCU. The campus is evolving at such a streamline pace... enrollment, organizations, buildings, majors, etc. Why not greek life as well? It really is astonishing that Greek Life is being so conservative in the wake of such growth.

More fraternities =/= to stronger Greek Life, at least not always.

[jennyj87]

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB

The FOX coverage was not 100% accurate. We know how the expansion process works and do indeed plan to change it in favor of an open expansion model. Undeniably, it would be advantageous for all parties if the policies and procedure were ammended in such a way. So, having said this - if Sigma Alpha Epsilon hears of the change in IFC's expansion policy and wants to come on, our Kappa Sigma delegate would vote in favor of this expansion (following procedures of open expansion). Our colony and our alumni recognize the bigger picture here. That picture being that it is not all about us... but also for other organizations down the road. Within the next five years, FGCU undergraduate enrollment is projected to increase by 5,000 students (from roughly 10,000 to 15,000). It is estimated that roughly 80% of all Southwest Florida high school graduates are enrolling at FGCU. The campus is evolving at such a streamline pace... enrollment, organizations, buildings, majors, etc. Why not greek life as well? It really is astonishing that Greek Life is being so conservative in the wake of such growth.

"conservative". Hmm. Well that depends. Does FGCU want each fraternity to have a good amount of members, or do they want each to be struggling to keep members? not saying any of them are right now, but what if they let 4 fraternities on at one time and then each only has 10-14 members?
I know IFC has an information session in the fall. Are tehre really that many men interested in the fraternities that are getting turned down?

Things to think about. I do not agree with Kappa Sigmas "vote to let them come on no matter what" policy. That just doens't make sense.

Also if the FOX coverage was so wrong, maybe you should talk to them. Because their biggest pushing part of that story is that kappa sigma has "no idea why they can't come on campus".

[K∑_PZ_AEKΔB]

If those organizations bring competition to the table, then yes it does strengthen Greek Life. Like I said before, expansion policies could be drafted to put the capability of recognition ultimately in the hands of "university unrecognized organizations" while still not opening the flood gates.

How long do you think it would take a group of men to:

Form a dues paying, nationally recognized interest group/colony of 1/3 the membership of the largest fraternity on campus? Also, have that group of men meet the checklist per requested by their national headquarters (GPA, community service hours per man, fundraising dollars per man, campus involvement, by-laws, code of conduct, etc...). I assure you this is no easy task. Whomever group completes this task is more than capable of adding strength to the IFC and to Greek Life.

[K∑_PZ_AEKΔB]

Originally Posted by jennyj87

Also if the FOX coverage was so wrong, maybe you should talk to them. Because their biggest pushing part of that story is that kappa sigma has "no idea why they can't come on campus".

We know of the policies and procedures. However, those policies and procedures do not make sense to us and any explanation recieved for them thusfar have been insignificant. The policies seem to have no root, no causation... at least no legitimate causation. Its like we are asking "Why?" and all we are getting in response is "Because." Would you be satisfied with such a lackluster reply?

Rules and regulations are meant to be challenged. If challenged (this case) and proven to be faulty or inadequate, rules and regulations are ammended. Historically, this is how it always has been. Why is this case any different? Shall we cement the current IFC bylaws in impenetrable stone??? I think not, we think not, Kappa Sigma thinks not.

[FSUZeta]

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB

We know of the policies and procedures. However, those policies and procedures do not make sense to us and any explanation recieved for them thusfar have been insignificant. The policies seem to have no root, no causation... at least no legitimate causation. Its like we are asking "Why?" and all we are getting in response is "Because." Would you be satisfied with such a lackluster reply?

Rules and regulations are meant to be challenged. If challenged (this case) and proven to be faulty or inadequate, rules and regulations are ammended. Historically, this is how it always has been. Why is this case any different? Shall we cement the current IFC bylaws in impenetrable stone??? I think not, we think not, Kappa Sigma thinks not.

not at fgcu. please understand, the ifc is abiding by the governance of the fgcu administration. greek life is on the campus at their discretion. it is a privilege to have greek life there-it is not a right.

[Psi U MC Vito]

Originally Posted by K∑_PZ_AEKΔB

We know of the policies and procedures. However, those policies and procedures do not make sense to us and any explanation recieved for them thusfar have been insignificant. The policies seem to have no root, no causation... at least no legitimate causation. Its like we are asking "Why?" and all we are getting in response is "Because." Would you be satisfied with such a lackluster reply?

Rules and regulations are meant to be challenged. If challenged (this case) and proven to be faulty or inadequate, rules and regulations are ammended. Historically, this is how it always has been. Why is this case any different? Shall we cement the current IFC bylaws in impenetrable stone??? I think not, we think not, Kappa Sigma thinks not.

Um that seems to be an IFC/University decision, not a random group of people who don't agree with it.

[oldu]

I don't know the details or how the original colonizers so badly offended the IFC & administration; however, I feel strongly that a group of students have the right to organize as a club or a fraternity if they so chose without the approval of either the IFC or the administration. Whether it was because they didn't like the groups already there or had a special attraction to Kappa Sigma I don't see why they need anybody but Kappa Sigma's approval. As a matter of fact, it was only in very recent years that these policies of first seeking IFC permission developed. The vast majority of older chapters of every fraternity and sorority organized as a group of friends that developed into a local group that ultimately sought out a national connection. I don't think the IFC can legally bar them from membership. I suspect the regulations say that the IFC is made up of all campus chapters and if they get their charter, they're in. While the Greek administrator may wish to exert much control over the process, he/she may find other students have a desire to make their own choices.

[K∑_PZ_AEKΔB]

Actually the current IFC bylaws at FGCU state under the expansion section, that any group to initiate members before recognition of the IFC is subject to 5 years of non-affiliation with IFC. The current expansion policies highly discourage positive growth of any non-recognized fraternal group.

[K∑_PZ_AEKΔB]

Section 6 - Initial Violations

A. Whereas, initiating a founding pledge class without following the expansion procedures set by the Interfraternity Council will result in denial of membership into the Interfraternity Council on Florida Gulf Coast University’s campus for 5 years.

B. Whereas, if an organization that wishes to join the Interfraternity Council from this date on manages to keep their founding pledge class covert, and that organization is accepted into the Interfraternity Council without the council's knowledge of such activity, they will be prohibited from participating in Interfraternity Council events for 3 years once that information in brought to light, effective immediately.

C. Whereas, no exceptions are to be made.

[KyleKSig]

It is not only the fact of being reconized as a fraternity on campus by the university but being able to use the facilities that the campus provides for the students. If FGCU does not want them to colonize yet, that is the schools choice at this time. But, these guys did not do what Sig Ep did a few years ago when their nationals pulled old before they became brothers by becoming Alpha Omega, I believe. This fraternity function and pledge in members even without being reconized. They were also able to participate intramurals as the organization and were able to use the facilities on campus. It took a few years than Sig Ep decided to recolonize at FGCU and they were still on campus as Alpha Omega. The problem is that if Kappa Sigma wishes to become a club on campus it has to be open to all students on campus, male and female. According to Kappa sigma bylaws, the fraternity is only open to males and therefore, they cannot become a club on campus. I come from a Greek System with close to 20 fraternities in it and I believe that with more faternities it makes for a better Greek community. With more Greeks you have a better chance to get more greeks in student government, internships and job placements later. Although we might like eachother at times we will su[[ort one another over a non greek. I hope that the greek community at FGCu decides that they will be better with more greeks on campus. It should show the dedication that these young men have had with all the hurdles they have had to jump to become Kappa Sigmas and hopefully part of the Greek community of campus.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by KyleKSig

The problem is that if Kappa Sigma wishes to become a club on campus it has to be open to all students on campus, male and female. According to Kappa sigma bylaws, the fraternity is only open to males and therefore, they cannot become a club on campus.

They're not going to do that. That would be stupid. They're going to be an off campus club - it'll just be as if a bunch of guys joined the Rotary or Masons. They won't be able to do intramurals or meet on campus, but if they hang around long enough they'll get recognized eventually.

This seems like it basically boils down to they got off on the wrong foot due to some douchey members, and even though the douches are gone, the non-douches have to clean it up and put up with the bs. Not fair maybe, but it happens in life.

[K∑_PZ_AEKΔB]

Somewhat. Regardless of the initial "bad blood", Greek Life would still most likely hold true to their controlled growth ideology. We still operate almost as if we were recognized - weekly meetings, dues, fraternal structure, pledge education, brotherhood events, community service, philanthropy, intramurals, etc. Basically the only thing we do not do now is formally interact with other greek organizations on campus. We will persevere through this, however long it takes. There are a few quotes that we, as a group of brothers in this situation, rest on.

"Victory is reserved for those who are willing to pay its price." - Sun Tzu
&
"MANET MANSURAQUE EST" (It remains and it shall remain) - The Kappa Sigma plaque at 46 East Lawn, UVA... the place of our American founding.

There is no doubt in my mind that we will succeed at this campus and bring with us advantageous changes to policy that will not only benefit ourselves - but also those individuals and organizations that oppose our being at the current time. Those are our goals... and there are 30 students, with support from countless dedicated alumni, willing and able to see it through.

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

KSig Advisor-

What I am getting from your post is this: Kappa Sigma does not want to be PART of the NIC, but wants to use NIC POLICIES and expects SUPPORT from NIC when you backdoor a colony. Do I have that correct?

[rex in effect]

Examining the issue at stake. I analyze it from Kappa Sigma's perspective and FGCU's perspective. I understand FGCU's reasons for having their set of rules in place. It is a young university that is still growing. I can somewhat understand why they would want to control the growth of their greek life. But, at the same time I look at what the Kappa Sigma colony of Fort Myers has done. They have a group of 30something guys who are involved in the school, doing philanthropy,paying dues, and are all in good academic standing with FGCU. The fact that these guys are succeeding at this is impressive. If they were on campus, they would excel even more. Being able to get that many guys without being on campus is impressive. They are doing something right. If they were on campus, I bet they would double or even triple in size. K-Sig Advisor is right Lanesig. The national offices of the fraternities on FGCU's campus told their chapters there to support Kappa Sigma coming on. Sigma Chi is the only one that may have not required them. That is shocking to me because Sigma Chi is in a similar battle trying to get recognized at George Mason University. I can imagine FGCU was wanting them to fail so that this issue would just go away. I'm not saying open the flood gates, but if a group of men can meet the requirements set forth for them by their nationals, they should be recognized by the campus because they are guranteed to make the Greek Life better. I sawthe News coverage. FGCU is making themselves look worse with their responses. They have allready been caught in two lies. That is not good for their sake. They are only making Kappa Sigma look better. They are a fraternity that was started by student interest. If you went to a university and you weren't feeling any of the organizations on campus,sholud you have to sit back and not be able to be in a fraternity? I think not. I totally respect what these young men have done. The News coverage was fair. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but a sorority girl cannot tell a fraternity how to operate. Panhellenic expansion is also something I have seen. There have been so many failed sorority colonizations its not even funny. IFC and Panhellenic rules and regulations are way different. Panhellenic rules and recruitment are unreal. I went to UCF, but I now attend Texas State and I have seen sorority recruitment. The whole process is odd. Instead of you going out for a single sorority, you have to sit through them all. You can possibly end up in the sorority you didn't want because its the only one to give you a bid. Speaking for schools in the south, I've seen girls get burned out by their sororities. They spend too much time living in fear of the rules instead of enjoying their time and making memories. This is why sororities have such a high rate of girls dropping out. This is also why the number of men that stay involved in their fraternities after graduation is way higher than the number of women who stay involved in their sororities after they graduate. Sorority girls have a totally different mindset on these types of issues, which is why they may not understand the issue. What is happening with Kappa Sigma at FGCU would never happen if it was a sorority. I gurantee a group of women who wanted to start a sorority would not succeed because a sorority national hq wouldn't even give them a colony without approval of the campus. The Fort Myers colony, soon to be Rho Zeta chapter will get recognized by FGCU eventually.

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by rex in effect

Examining the issue at stake. I analyze it from Kappa Sigma's perspective and FGCU's perspective. I understand FGCU's reasons for having their set of rules in place. It is a young university that is still growing. I can somewhat understand why they would want to control the growth of their greek life. But, at the same time I look at what the Kappa Sigma colony of Fort Myers has done. They have a group of 30something guys who are involved in the school, doing philanthropy,paying dues, and are all in good academic standing with FGCU. The fact that these guys are succeeding at this is impressive. If they were on campus, they would excel even more. Being able to get that many guys without being on campus is impressive. They are doing something right. If they were on campus, I bet they would double or even triple in size. K-Sig Advisor is right Lanesig. The national offices of the fraternities on FGCU's campus told their chapters there to support Kappa Sigma coming on. Sigma Chi is the only one that may have not required them. That is shocking to me because Sigma Chi is in a similar battle trying to get recognized at George Mason University. I can imagine FGCU was wanting them to fail so that this issue would just go away. I'm not saying open the flood gates, but if a group of men can meet the requirements set forth for them by their nationals, they should be recognized by the campus because they are guranteed to make the Greek Life better. I sawthe News coverage. FGCU is making themselves look worse with their responses. They have allready been caught in two lies. That is not good for their sake. They are only making Kappa Sigma look better. They are a fraternity that was started by student interest. If you went to a university and you weren't feeling any of the organizations on campus,sholud you have to sit back and not be able to be in a fraternity? I think not. I totally respect what these young men have done. The News coverage was fair. I don't mean to offend anyone here, but a sorority girl cannot tell a fraternity how to operate. Panhellenic expansion is also something I have seen. There have been so many failed sorority colonizations its not even funny. IFC and Panhellenic rules and regulations are way different. Panhellenic rules and recruitment are unreal. I went to UCF, but I now attend Texas State and I have seen sorority recruitment. The whole process is odd. Instead of you going out for a single sorority, you have to sit through them all. You can possibly end up in the sorority you didn't want because its the only one to give you a bid. Speaking for schools in the south, I've seen girls get burned out by their sororities. They spend too much time living in fear of the rules instead of enjoying their time and making memories. This is why sororities have such a high rate of girls dropping out. This is also why the number of men that stay involved in their fraternities after graduation is way higher than the number of women who stay involved in their sororities after they graduate. Sorority girls have a totally different mindset on these types of issues, which is why they may not understand the issue. What is happening with Kappa Sigma at FGCU would never happen if it was a sorority. I gurantee a group of women who wanted to start a sorority would not succeed because a sorority national hq wouldn't even give them a colony without approval of the campus. The Fort Myers colony, soon to be Rho Zeta chapter will get recognized by FGCU eventually.

Couple of things:

#1 - Not the same as Sigma Chi at George Mason. We were on campus as a recognized fraternity and got kicked off for myriad of reasons. HQ felt that the campus kicked us off without justification (I don't know all the reasons, so I can't argue them). Sigma Chi is currently unrecognized by GMU, but recognized by HQ. We did not ask to come on to campus, be asked to wait, and then said "To hell with you, we are going to colonize anyway."

#2- I won't even start on the sorority aspect. I am intrigued by the argument that there have been "so many failed sorority colonizations". The NPC, whether you agree with all of their rules or not, have their sh** (pardon me, ladies of GC) down pat. While I won't argue that every so often a colonization fails, I think history has proven that the majority of colonizations succeed and thrive.


Here is what I see the main issue: Why couldn't Kappa Sigma wait to colonize? In a totally serious question, is Kappa Sigma so desperate for colonies that it couldn't wait? Obviously, the answer is no.

Kappa Sigma chose to colonize for a campus that had a clear rule that stated that if a fraternity colonized without permission, they would have to wait 5 years for recognition. But, it looks like Kappa Sigma feels that they shouldn't have to wait or play by rules they don't agree with.

Also, go back to my question for KSig Advisor: Kappa Sigma doesn't want to be in the NIC, but apparently wants to use NIC policies and expects NIC support. Then, rejoin the NIC.