Are Black Women Scaring Off Black Men

[jojapeach]

^^^ I think this will be like the answer to the number of licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop: "The world may never know." Dude seriously needs to sneak into an English 099R class.

I'm with LadyGreek now and would love to see this locked up.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by CrimsonTide4

A few questions to consider as you read through this:

1. How do black couples define their gender roles?
2. How do black men and women measure manhood and womanhood?

"Why Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men? A Fighting Spirit Is Important-but Not at Home"

IBTL,

The two questions posed are deceptive in that they are entirely different from person to person. Gender roles and the measure of a man/woman are assigned by the two people that make up that particular black couple. There is no true model couple for this.

As for the content of the article I can only speak from my experience:
I know many a black woman who is in the church, and an organizer, and a career woman and I know women who are each of these separately and a whole host of other types of black women. I know plenty who are married and plenty who are single.
The thing is no two are alike. They're all different and thus their martial status can not be generalized. Among those that I know there are some shared beliefs and facts.
Some of the facts:
As black women advance (educationally and career wise) we statistically lower our chances of finding a suitable partner
We prefer black men to any other race
More than 50% of black children are currently being raised by single mothers
We are career oriented

Based on these facts many women I know have come up with some shared beliefs:
About ourselves:
1.We do not want to be another statistic and will do as much as possible to prevent this from happening.
2.We have high expectations of ourselves and those around us.
3.We want stability.
4.We work hard.
5.We don't ask for anything that we aren't willing to give.
About Men:
1.We expect for our men to be providers.
2.We expect our men to match us- My best friend wont even have a conversation with a guy if he is not a college student or college graduate (or college bound/inclined she understands that school isn't cheap). She feels like if he isn't in school then he's not doing enough with his life to match what she is doing and wants to do with hers.
3.We expect STABILITY. this is by far THE most important thing for most of the women I know. The point in a relationship is to provide support and love for one another. As black women, we look for a sense of "home" or someone and something that will always be there for us no matter what is going on in life. Unfortunately this in many of our lives is something we've never been able to find in black men. Starting with the men in our early lives. More than anything else we want for our men to understand who and what we are and we want them to be our rock. We expect financial stability as well.
4.We expect unyielding loyalty.
5.We expect love and protection.

From my own personal experience I can say that there is some validity to the statement that "a fighting spirit is important, but not at home."
I find myself in situations where I am fighting and arguing and I wonder why does it take this much? Why am I pushing myself and getting upset over issues that should be handled cordially? Am I pushing too hard? Can't I just let it go? Even when my b/f wants to just leave the subject alone I don't. I find it is more important to reach an understanding on a subject than it is to keep the peace because ultimately the conversation is going to happen again and until we reach understanding it will be an obstacle.
Two main issues for me are:
1.I have found that most men (even mine) cannot handle dealing with someone who is extremely driven, outspoken, strong willed, and dominant. It is not a good or bad thing it just is. I know myself and I know that what makes me successful in business, school, and a great many aspects of my life is the fact that I am ferociously determined to achieve whatever goal I set and I am unyielding in doing so. I know that I do not have to be this way all of the time, but being dominant at work and not so at home is a delicate balancing act. One that I would prefer not to have to perform. If a man can't handle me being my blunt, determined, and strong willed self all the time then he's not the one for me. I am not opposed to compromise. I think it's great, but some things I will not compromise on and this is one of them. So as for me any man who wants to be with me can get with the program or K.I.M. Does this attitude of mine (one that many black women share) "scare" black men away? Nope. Most of them were raised by a woman with a similar attitude so they're used to it. Which leads me to #2.

2.Black men and women do not successfully COMMUNICATE. Even in asking if black men are being scared away by black women the basis of the question is "Do black me fear black women?" and you only fear what you don't understand. Thus the correct question would be "Are black women making it too difficult for black men to communicate with and understand them?" Now, that is a question with merit and worth actually answering. Communication between two parties is much more difficult than most people believe. There's the verbal, non-verbal, and the never expressed thoughts that make conversation difficult. Even in being as outspoken as I am I find that there are a great many things that I don't say. Being considerate of other's feelings, not wanting to delve deeply in to certain subjects, fear, lack of trust and many other obstacles prevent communication. Until black men and black women learn how to constructively communicate among each other there will always be fear and there will be a state of broken-ness in the black couple, family, and community.


*To take a realistic look at why black women are not getting married and why black men seem to be running away from black women the many external factors that impact relationships must be analyzed. The issue I have with articles (and even books) like these is that they do not fully consider all of the forces that impact the black couple. To truly analyze this would take more space than a message board could provide.

[DrPhil]

Moderators, please do not lock this thread.

Thanks, I.A.S.K.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Moderators, please do not lock this thread.

Thanks, I.A.S.K.

You're welcome! And your opinion counts with me!

ETA: I always thought that it was a southern/uncouth thing to be loud. I get really annoyed when people are loud or yelling as do most of the black women I know. Now, its been my experience that southerners are louder than other people. Our loud is their normal. lol.

[PrettyBoy]

Originally Posted by Illuminati10

Nigga you ignorant!
With a capitol I in ignorant.

[PrettyBoy]

That was funny, but anyway while I'm in the DST forum I just wanted say happy birthday to ladygreek. Happy Birthday LG.

[MasonsInquiries]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

All stereotypes come from somewhere (including those about Black men) but that doesn't mean that they are true in a great or majority capacity. This is what many don't seem to get. If you are being truthful, then it's really a shame that you've had such experiences but you have not met most Black women, so MOST would not be the right word to use. SOME according to your personal experiences would be more accurate. Perhaps it's the circles that you have been part of or perhaps it's you. Sometimes we all need to take inventory and look at ourselves; sometimes we are the problem or part of the problem. I'm not trying to be negative or funny either. Among the many books that have impacted my life immensely over the years, probably one of my top five is one by Osho (I've read many of his books), called "Journey to the Heart." This book will encourage you to be more calm, peaceful, and patient with people and yourself. I am a Humanist so I work at understanding people better since we are often too hard on ourselves and others (which is why sometimes I break down and help the trolls on GC...DrPhil sometimes scolds me for doing this...LOL!). Anyway, the book includes real life examples and stories of how one can change an outcome or circumstance merely by thinking before they react and changing their response or reaction to things. Individuals have the power to choose a social outcome in many cases. Although, I am still a work in progress and will always be, in some cases I try to stop and think first before reacting or responding to a situation or person. Sometimes more understanding and empathy is required but I have been able to change many outcomes by responding positively instead of negatively and offering solutions instead of being a part of the problem. Good luck to you in finding that Black woman that will change your mind if that's what you seek but I am blessed to have so many beautiful, intelligent, loving, and supportive Black women in my life.

like yourself, i also have alot of wonderful, supportive, and intelligent black women in my life (including my wife, mom-in-law, mom, grandmom, etc.). you're absolutely right about me using the word "most" in the incorrect manner that i was using it, so i apologize for that.

it's just frustrating when i see alot of black women act the way they act (in public at that!). when i made my original comments in this thread, some of the negative comments i recieved were exactly what i expected.....shallow & misunderstood (i'm not referring to your comments in any way, of course). i just get tired of seeing sooooooo many sistas that have a gift to potentially do anything they want in their lives, but can't because of their ways.

here's a perfect example.....i have a coworker i work with here in the baltimore city public school system (BCPSS), and the woman is so outstanding at what she does, she could damn well run her own school if she could, but because of her trashy attitude, she'll never get there. again, it's an ongoing saga that i often see in many sistas.

i'll just say this....i believe black women are the most beautiful creatures on the face of the earth, but they're also the least taken. now, if that doesn't draw a red flag, nothing will.

i asked one of my friends "why do you choose not to date black women?" just to see what response i would get. he said "i'll give you three words........PEACE OF MIND".

[DrPhil]

Welp, congratulations to those Black men who don't want Black women. Somewhere there's a pony with rainbows shooting out of its ass that cares.

[MasonsInquiries]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

IBTL,

The two questions posed are deceptive in that they are entirely different from person to person. Gender roles and the measure of a man/woman are assigned by the two people that make up that particular black couple. There is no true model couple for this.

As for the content of the article I can only speak from my experience:
I know many a black woman who is in the church, and an organizer, and a career woman and I know women who are each of these separately and a whole host of other types of black women. I know plenty who are married and plenty who are single.
The thing is no two are alike. They're all different and thus their martial status can not be generalized. Among those that I know there are some shared beliefs and facts.
Some of the facts:
As black women advance (educationally and career wise) we statistically lower our chances of finding a suitable partner
We prefer black men to any other race
More than 50% of black children are currently being raised by single mothers
We are career oriented

Based on these facts many women I know have come up with some shared beliefs:
About ourselves:
1.We do not want to be another statistic and will do as much as possible to prevent this from happening.
2.We have high expectations of ourselves and those around us.
3.We want stability.
4.We work hard.
5.We don't ask for anything that we aren't willing to give.
About Men:
1.We expect for our men to be providers.
2.We expect our men to match us- My best friend wont even have a conversation with a guy if he is not a college student or college graduate (or college bound/inclined she understands that school isn't cheap). She feels like if he isn't in school then he's not doing enough with his life to match what she is doing and wants to do with hers.
3.We expect STABILITY. this is by far THE most important thing for most of the women I know. The point in a relationship is to provide support and love for one another. As black women, we look for a sense of "home" or someone and something that will always be there for us no matter what is going on in life. Unfortunately this in many of our lives is something we've never been able to find in black men. Starting with the men in our early lives. More than anything else we want for our men to understand who and what we are and we want them to be our rock. We expect financial stability as well.
4.We expect unyielding loyalty.
5.We expect love and protection.

From my own personal experience I can say that there is some validity to the statement that "a fighting spirit is important, but not at home."
I find myself in situations where I am fighting and arguing and I wonder why does it take this much? Why am I pushing myself and getting upset over issues that should be handled cordially? Am I pushing too hard? Can't I just let it go? Even when my b/f wants to just leave the subject alone I don't. I find it is more important to reach an understanding on a subject than it is to keep the peace because ultimately the conversation is going to happen again and until we reach understanding it will be an obstacle.
Two main issues for me are:
1.I have found that most men (even mine) cannot handle dealing with someone who is extremely driven, outspoken, strong willed, and dominant. It is not a good or bad thing it just is. I know myself and I know that what makes me successful in business, school, and a great many aspects of my life is the fact that I am ferociously determined to achieve whatever goal I set and I am unyielding in doing so. I know that I do not have to be this way all of the time, but being dominant at work and not so at home is a delicate balancing act. One that I would prefer not to have to perform. If a man can't handle me being my blunt, determined, and strong willed self all the time then he's not the one for me. I am not opposed to compromise. I think it's great, but some things I will not compromise on and this is one of them. So as for me any man who wants to be with me can get with the program or K.I.M. Does this attitude of mine (one that many black women share) "scare" black men away? Nope. Most of them were raised by a woman with a similar attitude so they're used to it. Which leads me to #2.

2.Black men and women do not successfully COMMUNICATE. Even in asking if black men are being scared away by black women the basis of the question is "Do black me fear black women?" and you only fear what you don't understand. Thus the correct question would be "Are black women making it too difficult for black men to communicate with and understand them?" Now, that is a question with merit and worth actually answering. Communication between two parties is much more difficult than most people believe. There's the verbal, non-verbal, and the never expressed thoughts that make conversation difficult. Even in being as outspoken as I am I find that there are a great many things that I don't say. Being considerate of other's feelings, not wanting to delve deeply in to certain subjects, fear, lack of trust and many other obstacles prevent communication. Until black men and black women learn how to constructively communicate among each other there will always be fear and there will be a state of broken-ness in the black couple, family, and community.


*To take a realistic look at why black women are not getting married and why black men seem to be running away from black women the many external factors that impact relationships must be analyzed. The issue I have with articles (and even books) like these is that they do not fully consider all of the forces that impact the black couple. To truly analyze this would take more space than a message board could provide.

{applauding}

well-said.

[MasonsInquiries]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Welp, congratulations to those Black men who don't want Black women. Somewhere there's a pony with rainbows shooting out of its ass that cares.

well, i can't speak for anyone else, but i'll say that i believe alot of black women don't know what they want. i'm not speaking of the good ones (of course), but certain levels of ignorant & shallow behavior should not be tolerated in no relationship. it puts the marriage/relationship on any uneven playing field.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

well, i can't speak for anyone else

And I can't pretend to care about this topic.

[libramunoz]

This subject is as tired as they come!

A brother posted this on my college's alumni website before and the answer is quite simple, it's no!
You can only be scared if you scare yourself.
You need to know who you are and what you are about before you are willing and capable of stepping up to somebody and asking them to consider to date you, much less even think of "go with" you or even marry you.
It has nothing to do with being a Black woman or man, it's about being able to know who you are and what you are/aren't willing to put up with.
Everything is constantly pointed out at how "sista's" are and act like such and such. However, why don't people look at it from the other side of the spectrum. What is a "brotha" acting like or what what is a "brotha" about.
It goes back to the old saying, when you're pointing one finger, there are three pointing right back at you.
Whomever came up with this article was half-cocked and half-thinking to begin with. It sounded like a personal question that they wanted to make a public battle. However, it needs to be looked at why the need to air your personal and private battles?
If a person doesn't want to date a Black woman, fine and good, because there is surely someone else who wants to date them. If a person has a problem with a "sista's" attitude, they should look at the attitude that is constantly given to the sista first. If a person doesn't want to deal with a "woman of color's" behavior, they need to look at what their behavior is first.
This article verges on stupid and inane and should have never been posted, printed, or written to begin with.
If you don't know who you are and what you are willing to bring to another person's table, then YOU, yes you need to keep it going.
If you don't know what you are/aren't willing to put up with in a relationship, then YOU, yes you, need to re-examine your values and define who you are as a person.
If you don't want to "date/go with" a woman that is Black or "acts Black" then do like they do it on Soul Train, keep the line moving, because YOU aren't the ONLY person in the world!
Sisters are who they are, people are who they are, and yes, we all have quirks, annoyances, and behaviors that we can/could/should/would re-examine, but life continues to keep one moving.

[dreamseeker]

Originally Posted by libramunoz

This subject is as tired as they come!

Originally Posted by DrPhil

And I can't pretend to care about this topic.

forreal.

[I.A.S.K.]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

Welp, congratulations to those Black men who don't want Black women. Somewhere there's a pony with rainbows shooting out of its ass that cares.

I <3 you! I'm having the worst week ever and this made me LOL!!!

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

{applauding}

well-said.

Yeah, thanks. Though, most things that are well thought out prior to being said tend to be well-said. Think twice type once. I find it extremely disillusioning that you applaud my post, but continue to make the ill-contemplated comments that you do.

Originally Posted by MasonsInquiries

like yourself, i also have alot of wonderful, supportive, and intelligent black women in my life (including my wife, mom-in-law, mom, grandmom, etc.). you're absolutely right about me using the word "most" in the incorrect manner that i was using it, so i apologize for that.

it's just frustrating when i see alot of black women act the way they act (in public at that!). when i made my original comments in this thread, some of the negative comments i recieved were exactly what i expected.....shallow & misunderstood (i'm not referring to your comments in any way, of course). i just get tired of seeing sooooooo many sistas that have a gift to potentially do anything they want in their lives, but can't because of their ways.

here's a perfect example.....i have a coworker i work with here in the baltimore city public school system (BCPSS), and the woman is so outstanding at what she does, she could damn well run her own school if she could, but because of her trashy attitude, she'll never get there. again, it's an ongoing saga that i often see in many sistas.

i'll just say this....i believe black women are the most beautiful creatures on the face of the earth, but they're also the least taken. now, if that doesn't draw a red flag, nothing will.

i asked one of my friends "why do you choose not to date black women?" just to see what response i would get. he said "i'll give you three words........PEACE OF MIND".

Next time express yourself in a clear, concise, and accurate manner and save the rest of us your "typical"/"I'm misunderstood" quips. You were not misunderstood. You failed to communicate your thoughts in an intelligible manner and then blamed everyone else for your failure instead of correcting it and apologizing.

You are the company you keep so if you find yourself constantly surrounded by black women who act in an unbecoming way then maybe you need to check yourself. You speak of these "frustrating" black women as if you are different from them. If you cannot see each of them as your sister and more importantly a direct reflection of yourself then it is you who is lacking and has the severe shortcomings.

I find it difficult to believe that you find black women to be the most beautiful beings on this earth when you constantly disrespect and degrade them by perpetuating asinine, ignorant, ass-backward stereotypes about them. If you do not understand the plethora of reasons why black women are the most beautiful, but least taken then you really shouldn't be contributing to this discussion except to ask for sources you should read to get a better understanding of the black woman and her place in American society and the world and how she has gotten here.

As for your friend who is seeking peace of mind specifically outside of the black woman... Maybe he should be searching for piece of mind. I'm quite sure once he finds that missing piece of mind he will be capable of finding peace of mind in himself and also in his sisters.

Another point that I would be remiss not to mention is that it is incredibly frustrating for what could possibly be intelligent discourse to be reduced to stereotyping and trolling. I say all of this for the purpose of achieving greater understanding as I feel somewhere in the muddled mess that you've been posting there is a slim chance that you might have some type of valid point or contribution to add to this discussion. I love a good discussion/debate, but only when it is done intelligently. Everything else is for sh*ts and giggles and the world already has too much sh*t and Dr.Phil has the giggles covered.

[MasonsInquiries]

Originally Posted by I.A.S.K.

Yeah, thanks. Though, most things that are well thought out prior to being said tend to be well-said. Think twice type once. I find it extremely disillusioning that you applaud my post, but continue to make the ill-contemplated comments that you do.

well, truthfully, i'm sorry you feel the way that you feel. my comments aren't "ill-comtemplated" at all......merely coming from experiences.