PNMs--tell the truth on your applications!

[carnation]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I just want to point out that this is not necessarily true. In fact, often, the larger the school is, the LESS likely it is that they'll check. Who wants to go through and check up on whether 800 different rushees were Greek before?

It's definitely true at big Southern schools. Not many transfers go through and there are people on Panhellenic recruitment committees whose jobs include checking the transcripts of all PNMs and whether transfers were Greek.

Not only that, but individual sororities check up on transfers too. They want to make sure they're not pledging, say, psychos or whatever and I personally know of some shocking things that some sororities uncovered about transfers (well, and on freshmen too). One sorority uncovered a pretty extensive police record on one girl who rushed 3 years ago--and that was at a smaller Southern school.

When I was rushing as a transfer, I remember one sorority member going on and on happily about a lot of minor activities I'd been in at my first school. I had not even mentioned those activities on my application!

[carnation]

I just thought I'd throw this in: just because there's no one from ABC University or XYZ sorority in your area doesn't mean that people aren't checking up on you! This year alone, I've received calls or emails from members of these sororities asking me to check up on certain local girls: Alpha Gam, AOII, Chi O, Tri Delt, Kappa, and Phi Mu. I feel good that members of other groups are trusting me to help them with membership...I like to think they realize that if I know the girl (or can find someone who does), I'll be truthful and not catty because hey, we're all looking for good new members to represent the Greek system.

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by carnation
If you're at a big and/or selective school, you'll almost certainly have to sign a paper allowing panhel to check your grades.

I suspect that you're using "selective" to refer to just the Greek system, and not the quality of academics.

The most academically selective schools don't HAVE to check for GPA. I would imagine that at an Ivy, MIT, Stanford, Georgetown, Chicago or even the good state schools...most, if not all, of the PNMs have at least a 3.0.

[deadbear80]

Originally posted by Munchkin03
I suspect that you're using "selective" to refer to just the Greek system, and not the quality of academics.

The most academically selective schools don't HAVE to check for GPA. I would imagine that at an Ivy, MIT, Stanford, Georgetown, Chicago or even the good state schools...most, if not all, of the PNMs have at least a 3.0.

You would be surprised...I went to Wash U--which is becoming harder and harder to get into...and VERY academically rigorous once you're there. I did very well in high school (over a 4.0), all honors and AP classes...and I had a 2.85 1st semester of my freshman year because I took 17 credits and read no less than 1,500 pages a night for all of my classes (on top of being social like most freshman try to be). Just because people are at a good school does not mean that once they are there they still always get good grades. I managed to dig myself out of a hole and never had a semester lower than 3.62 after that...but still. I think you're making a very huge and wrong generalization. Even the 'smart' schools check GPA--ESPECIALLY if they have deferred rush. The minimum GPA to rush when I did in Jan. '99 was a 2.0 and the chapter with the highest requirement had a 2.7--and there were girls who couldn't make that!

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by deadbear80
I think you're making a very huge and wrong generalization. Even the 'smart' schools check GPA--ESPECIALLY if they have deferred rush.

Ummm...you're wrong. I was Panhel President at an Ivy with deferred rush, and we didn't check GPA. I've spoken with other Panhel presidents at other Ivies...and they didn't check either. So, who's making the "very huge and wrong generalization," when I'm speaking of my own experience as the person who basically ran recruitment for a "selective" school?

Besides, I was speaking of the GPAs listed on rush applications--which are predominately first-year and transfer students. I don't know anyone who's gotten into the schools I listed with anything less than a 3.0. Once you're in, it's a different story.

Do I need to make things even more clear?

[deadbear80]

I wasn't trying to be snooty...but I think you're snippy attitude is a little uncalled for. I was just pointing out that some 'smart' schools do check GPA requirements...and I was talking about 1st years as well. Wash. U. does January Recruitment for freshmen and they used our 1st semester grades, not our ones from high school...so I was pointing out that some 'selective' schools do check GPA--especially when it's deferred rush and they are using college grades not high school ones. I was trying to say that your sweeping generalization was a little too large and that maybe it was different at other schools...
Neither one of us is 'wrong' per se...we just had different experiences. No need to jump down throats.

[kddani]

hey everyone, chill, no one knows everything about every school, things are different everywhere, no one truly knows it all, so chill!

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by deadbear80
You would be surprised...I went to Wash U--which is becoming harder and harder to get into...and VERY academically rigorous once you're there. I did very well in high school (over a 4.0), all honors and AP classes...and I had a 2.85 1st semester of my freshman year because I took 17 credits and read no less than 1,500 pages a night for all of my classes (on top of being social like most freshman try to be). Just because people are at a good school does not mean that once they are there they still always get good grades. I managed to dig myself out of a hole and never had a semester lower than 3.62 after that...but still. I think you're making a very huge and wrong generalization. Even the 'smart' schools check GPA--ESPECIALLY if they have deferred rush. The minimum GPA to rush when I did in Jan. '99 was a 2.0 and the chapter with the highest requirement had a 2.7--and there were girls who couldn't make that!

I think Munchkin is talking about freshmen rushing, and I can see where she's coming from. I can't imagine that there are more than a handful of freshmen at my school that had high school GPAs below 2.5, and the school I go to is not exactly top tier in terms of getting in. College GPA is, of course, another story.

And carnation, I wonder why they only check the transfer students? At many schools it wouldn't be tough for a transfer (at least a sophomore transfer) to pass themselves off as a freshman if they really wanted to. And I'm sure that if they had been Greek at a previous school and really wanted to join a different sorority now, they might go to great lengths. Checking only the self-declared transfer students still gives the opportunity for many women to slip through those cracks if they really try. Although given the large number of rushees, it's not surprising that sororities don't check everyone, I think it's strange to assume that these women would lie about not having been Greek before, yet not about anything else (previous student status, etc.).

It makes more sense to me that the individual organizations would check up prior to initiation, but when you're thinking up to 80 girls in a pledge class x 25 other organizations to check in with, that's still a lot of people and a WHOLE lot of work. And when you consider the hundreds/thousands of women that initiate in every organization every year, I just don't think that most of our HQs have the resources to deal with checking up on the background of every single girl that rushes. (Clearly they don't, which is why they only check the women who are most likely to have joined before, but this also explains why so many girls ARE able to join a second organization with nobody finding out, or nobody finding out until long after.)

[carnation]

Deadbear and kddani, you have a good point--we've all had different experiences! I have no clue what rush is like at northern or western schools so I defer to the expertise of folks from there about their rush matters. Also, if I think that someone from another type of system has a really stupid way of doing something, I might say that in a pm to a third party but it would be evil to announce it on the forums to a woman from that system.

That's why I dislike it when someone from a different type of system runs down the way that the SEC works. We deal with huge numbers. We know that expansion is difficult at our schools because PNMs often decide before recruitment which groups they want and a new one is at a distinct disadvantage. We do what we have to to deal with both problems and despite those problems, our Greek systems are powerful and so are our alum clubs.

[carnation]

Originally posted by sugar and spice


And carnation, I wonder why they only check the transfer students? At many schools it wouldn't be tough for a transfer (at least a sophomore transfer) to pass themselves off as a freshman if they really wanted to. And I'm sure that if they had been Greek at a previous school and really wanted to join a different sorority now, they might go to great lengths. Checking only the self-declared transfer students still gives the opportunity for many women to slip through those cracks if they really try. Although given the large number of rushees, it's not surprising that sororities don't check everyone, I think it's strange to assume that these women would lie about not having been Greek before, yet not about anything else (previous student status, etc.).

To pass themselves off as a freshman, they'd have to declare themselves as entering freshmen with no college gradepoint. Anyone with any college hours would have to submit their college transcript.

All PNMs are checked in my experience. Like I mentioned earlier, I get many calls and emails from Pi Phi chapters as well as other sororities asking me about PNMs. If ABC calls me about Ms. PNM, the freshman at Mercer, I might say, "Why's she rushing as a freshman at Mercer? She was a member of XYZ at Georgia State last year," and another one is caught. Somebody in your hometown always knows. They also know--and will tell sororities--if you're a troublemaker or a potential letter pimp. Or teachers will tell sororities if they know a girl cheated her way through school and will probably flunk out if not able to cheat in college. The hometown folks will also tell if someone is reeeaaallll strange.

[33girl]

I know that at our 2002 convention, we passed a bylaw that basically said when you sign your bid to us, you are affirming that you have never been initiated into another NPC group and if it's found out that you have been, your membership with us is automatically revoked. I'm guessing most other NPCs have similar policies.

And as far as transferring to a new school where your group isnt at, i was told that the rule was that you could not belong to the two group at the same school, so if you transfered then a girl could join a new group.

I don't quite understand what you're asking here, but if you've been initiated into an NPC sorority at your old school, you cannot join a different one at your new school. You can affiliate with your original sorority if it is at your new school (most of the time). As far as local groups, that's a totally different matter.

[KSUViolet06]

As rush kicks up again in the spring, I wanted to add for the attention of ALL PNM's- Lying goes against the principles and purposes of ALL GLO's with which I am familiar. So if you have respect for greek life and want to be greek- BE HONEST. As seen in previous posts from ladies who work in Greek Life offices, etc, virtually ANY lie you tell can be caught.

[alphaalpha]

I just wanted to make myself clear, I didnt try to do anything. I was just miss informed about the rules and was confused and wanted to clear up my confusion. I did not do anything nor do i think that anyone else should lie or cheat.

Just want to clear up any confusion.

[nongreekloser]

Doesn't matter, you'll still get cut even if you tell the truth.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally posted by nongreekloser
Doesn't matter, you'll still get cut even if you tell the truth.

Just an FYI- if you're looking for someone on this board to say "Bad sororities @ nongreekloser's university! Shame on you for cutting her." - not gonna happen. We aren't in the sororities at your school and we are in NO position to speculate why you've been cut so many times.