Kappa Alpha Order

[AXO Alum]

Originally posted by alpha1906:

Kappa Alpha Order must realize that symbols that may not have begun as racist can be transformed to be racist all the same. The Swastika is an ancient symbol of the sun, but I would guess that no one associates it with this anymore. The Confederate flag is a painful reminder for Americans that at one time, human beings died to KEEP other human being in bondage. And the resurrection of that symbol by fraternities or civic groups is a continuing slap in the face to all Americans.

Yes this thread was about KA -- but as always, people want to cause drama and will use any excuse to do it. I have stated before that the KA's I've known were nothing short of true gentlemen and were more socially conscious than any other fraternities on campus -- including both HWGLO's and HBGLO's.

In regards to this previous post.....I have always been intringued by those who believe that it is perfectly acceptable to live and die by what they deem as "their rights" but yet continue to tell others what they don't have a right to do. I don't own a Confederate flag - but I whole heartedly agree that anyone who does, and wishes to fly the flag (on their own property be it a house, car, whatever), has a right to do so! I don't agree with the KKK or the NAACP -- but I believe that good people fought and died for the rights of each group to exist. Freedom of speech and expression cannot be limited to what one person (or a group for that matter) thinks is acceptable. So why should KA have to change their heritage and symbols? So others can agree with it??? If that's the case, then there is a whole lot of double standards out there that need to be fixed --- for example, in my fraternity, not once ANYWHERE will anyone find the words "To uplift/build/whatever the white community" -- because we believe in building and uplifting ALL COMMUNITIES. Not once does it say "The Christian Community" -- because we believe in freedom to worship. Not once does it say "Alpha Chi Omega above all else" because we believe that our fraternity should never interfere with our obligation to divine beliefs, family, and friends. I would have to say that based on what I know of Kappa Alpha Order, they too would stand by these type beliefs. And no one has a right to change that because they have made an inaccurate assumption of what a flag or a song means to them personally! Unless you are a member of KA Order, you cannot know what it means to them to wear with honor and pride the symbols of that fraternity. I don't know what it means to wear with honor and pride the symbols of any other frat or soro, so I know good and well that I don't have the right to tell them they can't wear it anymore just because I don't agree with it.

This topic will never cease to rise and fall - I know that we all have our own opinions and beliefs, but I also know that I have the right to love my family and my heritage for what it means to me -- the same as we all do -- and KA shouldn't be excluded from that right.

[KABillyMac]

AXO,

I just wanted to thank you for your support, you are a eloquent (sp?) speaker. I have enjoyed reading your responses and on behalf of KA I just wanted to thank you.

KA has hundreds of black members. We do not turn men away because of race. I know this may come as a suprise to many of you. Maybe that kinda gives you all a diffrent view of KA.

I was not going to fight about the history of the Civil War on this post. God I wanted to but I didnt. I would like to extend an invatation to the BGLO member, the author of "The Divine Nine" the opprotunity to discuss this in email. I'm not a dumb hilljack and I'm fully prepared to go toe to toe with him/her on Southern history. That post had a couple incorrect statements in it anyway. I just dont think a KA thread is going to be the proper place to fight about the history of the South.

Once again, thank you to those of you who stepped up and showed support.

[superchick]

I thought if you wear the confederate uniform to important events and wave the confederate flag around all the time that you would be racist. They are at my campus, they get in fights with the BGLO's all the time.

[The1calledTKE]

I don't know if they are racist. I have heard of black KA's before. There was one I used to talk to that was from a North Carolina chapter. Would a black person join a racist fraternity?

[josh8o]

Originally posted by zntke711
Would a black person join a racist fraternity?

it would be highly unlikely, but there are chapters that are not racest...and sometimes when a guy rushes he does not know what the national repuataion is.

[MoxieGrrl]

My .02 on the gentleman of Kappa Alpha Order and their "racist" reputation:

1. My boyfriend's KA chapter (Beta Beta, I believe) was almost entirely African-American in the 1970's. In the 1980's, they were from every imaginable nationality, as they were also known as the "soccer" house. And this is in West by Gawd Virginia. Since our diversity at Bethany has gone drastically downhill since those days, so do the numbers of minorities in the Beta Beta chapter. It just happened like that, and it's not a reflection of the men in the organization.

2. I read a story somewhere that KA was flying the Confederate Flag, and it bothered a cleaning woman. Someone approached the chapter and asked them to take it down. The guys asked why and the person said it was upsetting the cleaning woman. So, they took it down. No more questions asked. I thought that was v.v.nice.

3. I'm sure that the KA brothers that made racist comments, etc... were assholes before they joined KA. Their attitudes are due to their upbringing, not the supposed "brainwashing" of fraternity life.

[MysticCat]

Originally posted by MoxieGrrl (in part)
I read a story somewhere that KA was flying the Confederate Flag, and it bothered a cleaning woman. Someone approached the chapter and asked them to take it down. The guys asked why and the person said it was upsetting the cleaning woman. So, they took it down. No more questions asked. I thought that was v.v.nice.

Actually, Kappa Alpha Order adopted the following By-Law at its 2001 National Convention:

Display of the Confederate Battle Flag. The display of the Confederate Battle Flag shall be prohibited from any chapter house, lodge, or meeting place: a "display" shall mean a visible presence from the exterior of said property and from the common areas within. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be displayed at any fraternity function or gathering, on or off property associated with Kappa Alpha Order. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be associated with Kappa Alpha Order by any medium including, but not limited to, fabric pattern, printed material, painted or stenciled surfaces, or computer Web sites. The Confederate Battle Flag shall not be incorporated into the design of clothing or any other items bearing symbolism of Kappa Alpha Order.

An issue of the Kappa Alpha Journal a year or so ago (which used to be available on-line, but now I can't find it) had a very good cover story on the association between KA and the Conferderate Battle flag, historically and now, along with discussion of why KA would not want to be associated with the negative connotations the flag carries with so many people.

BTW, Kappa Alpha Order has long had its own, very attractive flag: three vertical bars -- crimson, white and gold -- with a crimson Greek cross (all arms equal length) in the center of the white bar.

For what it's worth.

[MoxieGrrl]

MysticCat: Yeah, I believe that story is at least a few years old. I *think* it was in "Wrongs of Passage."

I agree, the KA Flag rules. I had to make it with icing for their bid day cake this past year.

[Tom Earp]

I am sure that all of us have had members of our Familys way back when fight in the Civil War!

I did, the Earp side for the North and the Lee side in the South!

Andrew Johnson, NO Not Andrew Jackson, was from Eastern Tenn!

Who may you ask was he, da, the 17 th Pres. after Lincoln was killed!

He as A Legislator was the deciding vote when carried in on a streatcher to vote to keep the Union together! Yep related to him too!

The Stars and Bars was the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, but there were all kinds of Flags! This one was picked out to represent the Whites wanting to keep slaves by the People of the North!

It was an economic battle before it was a battle to free the slaves.

Using this particular Flag I think does an injustice! While everyone one wants to use this as a symbol of the Racisim of the South, It is not true!

So the Members Of KA wear Uniforms that show what the beleifs are! They go by Southern Gentlemen, not racists!

I for one Salute another Member of the IFC of GreekDom.

Yes people, We as Greeks are becoming Minoritys on Our Very own campuses! By The Way, That Is All Greeks no matter what color! Get with it and get it together!

Yes, slavery happened in the early years of this Country the Northeren Irish Hate the Southern Irish! The Roman Catholics hate the Protestents and to this day blow each other up!

It is Economics!

Wake up people, that is what life is about! And to damn Unfortunitally so!

Oil, If G Bush keeps talking about taking the Nut out in Iraq, well what the hell then! Pedal or walk to your jobs DA!

I Love My Flag Of the USA! I also love Canada, Englend, and French Flags for what they look lie!

As a kid, I used to make Flags and put them up in my back yard!

Does anyone remember, Dont Tread On Me? That was a Flag also!

Get over your sellf importance and feelings of I hate you because you are white or Black, or Asian! I have!

[Optimist Prime]

The historical meaning of the confederate battle flag is not what most people have an issue with. It was chosen back then because the offical flag of CSA was red and white, like the US flag and people shot the wrong troops. The battle flag was latter adopted by KKK and other racists. It was added to state flags as a payback for intergration.

[OUlioness01]

I don't know any KA's but don't assume that a chapter is racist because of the conferderate issue. After all, Phi Mu's honorary members are Stonewall Jackson, Robert E. Lee, and Jefferson Davis. Are we racist? I've never met a Phi Mu who is.

[bolingbaker]

Friend of mine's son just pledged KA at Auburn. As for the snide remark earlier that KA as a fraternity is racist, I'd be curious to know which is the greater liklihood on a given campus: that the KA chapter would have a black member, or that a chapter of one of the mainstream Black fraternities would have a white member.

[dzrose93]

I posted my feelings on this issue a while back, but since someone decided to drag this ole' thread up again, here I go:

Kappa Alpha Order is NOT a racist organization. As in any GLO, there will be some idiots who are prejudiced against certain groups of people. However, it's absolutely asinine to categorize an entire fraternity as racist based on the actions of a select few.

The truth of the matter is that some people have problems with the fact that KA was founded in the South during a very sad time in this nation's history and that the fraternity credits Robert E. Lee as being the Southern gentleman who helped get the fledgling organization off the ground.

The fact that Lee is an historic figure associated with the South during the Civil War has given a lot of people reason to believe that the men of Kappa Alpha would like to go back to the days of slavery. And some incidents involving racism that have cropped up at certain KA chapters in the past have helped to perpetuate that myth, much to the dismay of true Kappa Alpha gentlemen who have been embarrassed and angered by those actions.

However, some folks act like KA is the only fraternity to be publicly humiliated due to the actions of some less-than-desirable members, and I can tell you quite certainly that it is not. Before we start calling the KA organization "racist," maybe some of us should check out our own organizations' histories. I'd be willing to bet that we've all had a few "bad apples" in some of our chapters over the years that we'd rather not claim as our own. But does that make it right for someone to categorize our organizations as being "racist" or "druggies" or "date rapists" -- or any other slanderous term that has been used to describe certain Greek Letter Organizations in recent years?

My brother is a proud Kappa Alpha Southern Gentleman, and there is no fraternity that I would rather him join. His chapter brothers are some of the most polite, respectful and intelligent young men that I've had the opportunity to meet, and they strictly adhere to the code of the Southern gentleman.

When I enter the KA House, I have no doubt that I will be treated with anything but the utmost respect. The guys practically knock each other over trying to open doors for women! I wish that all fraternities offered their pledges the types of etiquette training that Kappa Alpha and a few other groups offer theirs. I think we'd have a lot more gentlemen walking around if they did.

Now, my brother's chapter may not have an African-American member in its ranks currently. However, I don't know any fraternity on his campus that does. It's just one of those things -- down here you don't see many African-Americans in GLO's that aren't considered HBGLO's. What I do know is that I've been to the KA House during band parties and other social events and have looked around the room to see a wide variety of people in attendance -- white, black, Asian, and Hispanic. And these were invitation-only parties. So, if KA is racist, then what were all those non-Caucasian folks doing there? Answer me that.

**dzrose93 stepping off her soapbox**

[AlphaSigOU]

I have nothing but the highest of respect for the Kappa Alpha Order and the principles they teach which are, sadly, lacking in many colleges and universities today. In fact, several of my Masonic lodge brothers are KA Order members.

[moe.ron]

Originally posted by USFstudent
KABillyMac:
I am sorry that you are upset at my posting of this article about your organization. Although I do not see the need for you to retailiate against my organization. Several people have come on this board and call your organization all sorts of terrible things, while since I personally know no KA's from my school since we have no chapter. The article merely came across my desk, and then i noticed the topic. It hurts to lose chapters, but threatening people is the not the way to handle it, not the gentlemanly way you so pride yourself on. However, should you be so inclined to do so, I am a member of Sigma Delta Tau SORORITY. Knock yourself out, I don't pretend that I have less then stellar chapters somewhere, but I will stand by them because they are my sisters.
-USFstudent

Just wondering what your feeling is on the professor "firing" becase of his beliefs.

As for this thread, although I do not know any KA ORder brothers ( I do know a KA Society brother), I have nothing but respect for their fraternity. And their flag kick ass.