A totally honest thread...from long long ago

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Honeychile, Cal and USC are NOT interchangeable. Oh dear, I think I am feeling faint. I do believe you have committed an atrocious faux pas, but as you are not from California, we will graciously forgive your inadvertent error.

Well, now you know how we feel when people confuse the University of Pennsylvania (aka Penn) and Penn State. Yipes.

[honeychile]

I feel shame.

I suppose I better learn which is which before my godchildren start going to school in Cali!

[jwsteele]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Honeychile, Cal and USC are NOT interchangeable. Oh dear, I think I am feeling faint. I do believe you have committed an atrocious faux pas, but as you are not from California, we will graciously forgive your inadvertent error.

I don't want to turn this thread into something completely different, but if you are talking about campus culture then the two are vastly different...if you are commenting on academics/prestige, USC has been climbing rapidly and according to the 2008 US News Rankings Berkeley is 21 and USC is 27...still a slight difference but I think the next poster's comment about it being similar to the difference between Penn and Penn State is extremely exaggerated.

But great to read a USC rush story, even from an alumni. It's crazy how much the campus are changed...there are several Jewish girls in the "top" sororities and there seems to be no problem for them during rush.

[aephi alum]

I've just read through this thread... wow. It's an eye-opener to read a rush thread where women were, ah, "encouraged" to pursue or not pursue a given sorority because of their religion. (Not to make you feel old, but you rushed before I was born!)

When I rushed in the early 1990's, religion was - I won't go so far as to say it was totally a non-issue, but it was less of an issue than it seems it was for you. There were four NPC sororities (none historically Jewish, but I believe each had Jewish members) and one newly-founded local whose members were all Jewish... I gravitated straight to the local, which is now a chapter of AEPhi. Off the top of my head, I can think of several Christian alums and one Hindu alum. Times change.

LML,
aephi alum

[FSUZeta]

bejazd, how precious of you to so graciously point out honeychiles faux pas.

i think all the chapters at fsu in the mid to late 70's had jewish members. we had several members who were jewish and it was never an issue with them or us.

[AnchorAlumna]

Hey, ellebud, you and I seem to be about the same vintage. It's truly surprising to me that the U of Alabama at that point was a tiny bit more "progressive" than USC. I remember my sophomore year (1971-72), the rush chair explained that all the Jewish girls were dropped "as a courtesy" to the Jewish chapters, SDT and DPhiE. By then most of the other groups were OK
to pledge non-Christian girls, although there weren't that many. By my senior year, DPhiE had folded, and SDT pledged a (Christian) great-great-niece of one of our Founders. The gloves were off, so to speak, and by then the Jewish girls were considering ALL the groups, not just the Jewish ones. It probably hurt SDT in the long run, although they are still hanging in there.

[ellebud]

It is truly interesting to see that Alabama was more liberal than SC! Yes, SC is climbing in the national rankings. When I was there and on the row it was very heavily Pasadena/San Marino based. That area was old line money and very WASPy. I was from the west Los Angeles area...very show business-y, liberal and Jewish. UCLA and Berkeley (now called Cal) were very liberal and public schools. I have friends who have daughters in some of the top houses. And one girl in particular is a trailblazer. She is Jewish of Persian background. She has broken all traditions: she is living on campus, studying in college..and not keeping kosher. I think the last part she hasn't mentioned to her mother...and that might be a good thing. They are very traditional.

[FSUZeta]

you last statement made a question pop into my head--do the traditionally jewish sororities that own houses and serve meals keep kosher?

[catiebug]

How would you know a PNM was Jewish? Was it part of the rush application? Was the drop based on the PNM's last name (some last names are associated with Jewish families)? Was it based on that the PNM looked Semitic? I have to wonder.

I am half-Middle Eastern. My father, who was Iraqi, was Roman Catholic; I look like I could be Jewish. My mother, who is Episcopalian (as am I), divorced my father and married a man who later adopted me, giving me his last name of Miller (considered by some to be a Jewish last name). So if I did not list that I was Jewish on my rush application, based on my looks and maiden name, some sororities might think I was Jewish and cut me as a "courtesy" to the traditionally Jewish sororities - is this the case?

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I remember my sophomore year (1971-72), the rush chair explained that all the Jewish girls were dropped "as a courtesy" to the Jewish chapters, SDT and DPhiE.

[SthrnZeta]

^^ Excellent question - I wanna know too!

[violetpretty]

I know I talked to a PNM at Maryland a couple years ago during tours. She was wearing a Star of David pendant and I saw her tuck it under her collar while we were talking! I called her out on it and told her she didn't have to do that! It's very common for PNMs and Jewish members of all chapters to wear Star of David pendants during recruitment.

Also, sometimes Jewish PNMs will tell you. Not like "I'm Jewish," but if they say they are involved with Hillel, Jewish Student Union (JSU), or they are doing the Birthright trip to Israel, you know they are Jewish. Some PNMs want you to know.

[LXA SE285]

I remember reading an article online a while back stating that decades ago (in the 1940s and/or ’50s), Bama had the largest Jewish student population of any school in the U.S. outside the Northeast. At one point, they had chapters of AEPi, Phi Epsilon Pi (merged with ZBT), Sammy, and ZBT for the men and AEPhi, DPhiE, and SDT for the women.

[ellebud]

The two AEPhi chapters that I am familiar with did not serve kosher meals. Far from it...the veal parmagania and tacos were testaments to that. There was one girl who kept kosher. Her mother sent prepackaged meals to the house once a week. (Remember this was before microwaves. I imagine everything was dried out and yucky.) I know that she would eat salad, tuna, and eggs. (As long as bacon hadn't been cooked in the same pan. It took real commitment to keep kosher at that time. I imagine the in today's world, with so many vegetarians, it is easier. But my family stopped keeping kosher when we arrived in the United States in the 1880's.

The question of how does a sorority know if you are Jewish or not is much harder to answer nowadays. When I was in school, if you came from Beverly Hills (as I did) it was ASSUMED that you were Jewish. My name wasn't Jewish, but the high school, at that time was 95% Jewish. Names used to be a guide but I know girls with the first name of Crissy (Christ as the base) who are Jewish and very observent. (Her mother loved the name Crissy.) I know a girl with the last name of Cohen who isn't Jewish. (Her grandfather was Jewish). Barry Goldwater (boy am I dating myself) wasn't Jewish...his grandfather was. I also know women with very non-committed names who are Jewish. (Many Jews changed their names to be more "American". My original last name was changed to sound more American by my grandfather.) Miller is a perfect example. It is not a Jewish name. It is English. But some families who had a name like...Militcovich changed it to Miller. And at Ellis Island (as happened with my family) the family name was changed by officials because the officials simply couldn't spell the family name.)

If you want to let people "know" that you aren't Jewish (or are) the most obvious way is to wear a small cross or a Star of David. There really isn't a thing about "looking Jewish." My oldest daughter has blond hair, blue eyes. My youngest has brown hair and green eyes. You might have seen my youngest on some tv commercials: She has been the homecoming queen, a young all American teen...and a latina. (The last because she has brown hair and they covered the reddish streaks in her hair.) And they are both Jewish. Oh and yes, on your application for rush there a subtle "hints" as to whether one is Jewish based on activities. (not the obvious like "Christian Fellowship", although that could work.)

[Benzgirl]

When I was in school we had SDT, DPhiE, AEPhi, Sammy, ZBT and AEPi. All had houses with meals, none were Kosher.
My brother's apartment mate did keep Kosher and his pots and pans confused the heck out of the other guys. At least he had two sets of dishes (each a different color)

[bejazd]

I'm only kidding, jwsteele! My parents are USC alums so we generally root for the Trojans, at least during football season! It's so tough to get into USC or Cal that I think you'd have to consider the two as academic equals. And the last kid I knew that went to Cal is a conservative Christian and a staunch Republican, so go figure. Stereotypes just don't hold up to reality.

Loved your story ellebud!