Petition ABC Family to Cancel "Greek"

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

For the right advertising dollar and ratings price, I'm pretty sure he would.

AGREED. Sad, but true. Just because a person is a member of a GLO doesn't mean that he or she has the national organization's best interests at heart, or the entire Greek community's.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

We'd all like to think that our politicians have "better things to spend political capital on" but in most cases, that isn't true. Have you heard of pork barrel spending and pushing one's own agenda? Are we now going to say that politicians are all honest, good people, who only spend time on issues that are "worthwhile"? Does Terry Schiavo ring a bell to any one?

Who said anything about politicians being honest, good people. They're politicians, for pete's sake. I'm assuming that they will act out of their own best interests. It is not in their best interests politically to expend any effort at all protesting a show on a cable network simply because it presents Greeks in a bad light.

There are a whole lot more Catholics in the US than GLO members -- if politicians aren't taking time to protest shows and movies that portray Catholicism in a bad light (and there are a lots of them), why would they waste their time on this?

And the comparison to Terry Schiavo (which was a fiasco) is just silly.

And I beg to differ on your definition of censorship. Ratings are censorship, insomuch as they seek to prohibit certain people in society from viewing or listening to certain material.

Beg away. But believe it or not, words actually have meanings. That is, of course, unless one has gone through the Looking Glass and is talking to Humpty Dumpty, who claimed "Words mean what I say they mean, nothing more, nothing less."

Seriously, cite me one instance where ratings have "prohibited" anyone from viewing or listening to certain materials. Parental prohibitions don't count. Neither do business-based decisions of the relatively few stores or theaters that do not to sell recordings or tickets to "under-aged" people; that just means they lost your business and you go elsewhere.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Who said anything about politicians being honest, good people. They're politicians, for pete's sake. I'm assuming that they will act out of their own best interests. It is not in their best interests politically to expend any effort at all protesting a show on a cable network simply because it presents Greeks in a bad light.

There are a whole lot more Catholics in the US than GLO members -- if politicians aren't taking time to protest shows and movies that portray Catholicism in a bad light (and there are a lots of them), why would they waste their time on this?

And the comparison to Terry Schiavo (which was a fiasco) is just silly.
Beg away. But believe it or not, words actually have meanings. That is, of course, unless one has gone through the Looking Glass and is talking to Humpty Dumpty, who claimed "Words mean what I say they mean, nothing more, nothing less."

Seriously, cite me one instance where ratings have "prohibited" anyone from viewing or listening to certain materials. Parental prohibitions don't count. Neither do business-based decisions of the relatively few stores or theaters that do not to sell recordings or tickets to "under-aged" people; that just means they lost your business and you go elsewhere.

How is the comparison to Terry Schiavo silly? I think it illustrates beautifully just how many mundane ways our country's politicians waste time. However you want to look at it, tv ratings and channel blocks are censorship. I will cite you a specific example, which actually DID happen to me when I was living in VA. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are A LOT more places that don't sell certain products to teenagers than you would think. I was turned away from buying a certain cd, also from attending a certain movie, and once even prohibited from buying a lighter. Again, all of these instances happened when I was under-aged, but they still occurred, whether you want to admit it or not. Again, agree to disagree. If you want to believe that there is NO CENSORSHIP in America, go ahead and do so.

I think your citation of Humpty Dumpty is fitting, because some people prefer to live in a nursery-rhyme world. In case you didn't know, nursery rhymes also have hidden meanings, just like fairy tales. Humpty Dumpty, as it seems, was actually a cannon and alludes to the conflict between Puritans and Cavaliers in England. Interestingly, Puritans are also where Americans got the idea for censorship, for which we are so often criticized by Europeans.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

How is the comparison to Terry Schiavo silly? I think it illustrates beautifully just how many mundane ways our country's politicians waste time. However you want to look at it, tv ratings and channel blocks are censorship. I will cite you a specific example, which actually DID happen to me when I was living in VA. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are A LOT more places that don't sell certain products to teenagers than you would think. I was turned away from buying a certain cd, also from attending a certain movie, and once even prohibited from buying a lighter. Again, all of these instances happened when I was under-aged, but they still occurred, whether you want to admit it or not. Again, agree to disagree. If you want to believe that there is NO CENSORSHIP in America, go ahead and do so.

I think your citation of Humpty Dumpty is fitting, because some people prefer to live in a nursery-rhyme world. In case you didn't know, nursery rhymes also have hidden meanings, just like fairy tales. Humpty Dumpty, as it seems, was actually a cannon and alludes to the conflict between Puritans and Cavaliers in England. Interestingly, Puritans are also where Americans got the idea for censorship, for which we are so often criticized by Europeans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humpty_Dumpty

Or that's one theory among several.

Are you really claiming the Puritans were the first Europeans to think up censorship? What do you think Kings and lords did? Let the peasants run around saying whatever they wanted? Hell you had to change your religion on a regular basis to stay in good graces, you certainly had to keep your mouth shut. I'll grant you the Puritans were so stodgy the British wished them well when they left but that doesn't mean they invented censorship.

Age restriction doesn't equal censorship, the information is freely available but this country has acknowledged that minors have more restricted rights than adults. If you disagree with this concept, lets let 6 year olds drink, smoke, drive, go to R Rated movies and work 40 hours a week.

[REE1993]

"This petition is to ask the ABC Family channel to remove the show "Greek" from it's line-up."

You would think that the people writing the petition would use the proper grammar and spelling. The correct choice here is "its", not "it's".

"The show promotes false stereotypes concerning college Greek life and Greek organizations. They show Greek organizations condoning underage drinking, alcoholism, and promiscuity."

The show is just that - a show. It is entertainment. When watching television or movies, or reading books, we are expected to "suspend belief". Are we really to believe, for example, that every Emergency Room in the country have weekly tragedies such as failling helicopters, plane crashes, crashing triple decker porches?

"This is detrimental to those who participate in Greek organizations and the organizations themselves because it allows the public to believe that this is the true way in which these organizations operate. They also neglect to show the academic, philanthropic and fraternal aspects of these organizations, which is what the true purpose of real Greek organizations is."

If people do not want their view of Greeks to be marred by watching the show, they can choose not to watch it. Just because Desperate Housewives shows stay-at-home moms getting busy when their husbands are at work and plotting murders, does that mean that it is detrimental to all housewives, who might fear being stereotyped as a heartless slut? The true purpose of being a wife is to love and honor her husband and provide for the safety and well being of her family.
"We also ask that ABC Family remove the "virtual rush" program from it's website for the same reasons listed above. The questions asked through this program promote a false sense of true Greek recruitment to non-Greeks who may wish to join an organization in the future."

If you don't want to go to the site and participate, then don't. No one is forcing you or anyone else to visit. Television stations are owned by corporations. Corporations exist to provide a service or product (in this case, entertainment), and must advertise to a specific demographic to get the word out to the people they hope to attract to its product or service. It's called TARGETED MARKETING.

Come on, get over it all. An online petition does very little. It cannot hold up in court. There is no quick or accurate way to attest to the validity of each signateur, and to prove that a person has only signed once.

As far as bringing this to the government, have you ever heard of the right to freedom of speech? Sure you also have the right to petition but I can all but guarantee you that THIS endeavor will prove fruitless.

JUST DON'T WATCH IT. If you are worried about the show affecting your rush/recruitment, then do your best to demonstrate the positives. Let your GLO speak for itself.

[kathykd2005]

Ok, this whole discussion is now way off topic, and I'm ashamed to say that I contributed to that. No, I don't think six year olds should run around drinking and watching r-rated movies, I am just saying that there is some censorship in American society. Agree to disagree. Still hate the stupid idea for the show, still think it contributes to the negative view people already have about the Greek community.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by REE1993

"This petition is to ask the ABC Family channel to remove the show "Greek" from it's line-up."

You would think that the people writing the petition would use the proper grammar and spelling. The correct choice here is "its", not "it's".

"The show promotes false stereotypes concerning college Greek life and Greek organizations. They show Greek organizations condoning underage drinking, alcoholism, and promiscuity."

The show is just that - a show. It is entertainment. When watching television or movies, or reading books, we are expected to "suspend belief". Are we really to believe, for example, that every Emergency Room in the country have weekly tragedies such as failling helicopters, plane crashes, crashing triple decker porches?

"This is detrimental to those who participate in Greek organizations and the organizations themselves because it allows the public to believe that this is the true way in which these organizations operate. They also neglect to show the academic, philanthropic and fraternal aspects of these organizations, which is what the true purpose of real Greek organizations is."

If people do not want their view of Greeks to be marred by watching the show, they can choose not to watch it. Just because Desperate Housewives shows stay-at-home moms getting busy when their husbands are at work and plotting murders, does that mean that it is detrimental to all housewives, who might fear being stereotyped as a heartless slut? The true purpose of being a wife is to love and honor her husband and provide for the safety and well being of her family.
"We also ask that ABC Family remove the "virtual rush" program from it's website for the same reasons listed above. The questions asked through this program promote a false sense of true Greek recruitment to non-Greeks who may wish to join an organization in the future."

If you don't want to go to the site and participate, then don't. No one is forcing you or anyone else to visit. Television stations are owned by corporations. Corporations exist to provide a service or product (in this case, entertainment), and must advertise to a specific demographic to get the word out to the people they hope to attract to its product or service. It's called TARGETED MARKETING.

Come on, get over it all. An online petition does very little. It cannot hold up in court. There is no quick or accurate way to attest to the validity of each signateur, and to prove that a person has only signed once.

As far as bringing this to the government, have you ever heard of the right to freedom of speech? Sure you also have the right to petition but I can all but guarantee you that THIS endeavor will prove fruitless.

JUST DON'T WATCH IT. If you are worried about the show affecting your rush/recruitment, then do your best to demonstrate the positives. Let your GLO speak for itself.

One big fat WORD to everything you said

[MysticCat]

Okay, one more shot.

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

How is the comparison to Terry Schiavo silly? I think it illustrates beautifully just how many mundane ways our country's politicians waste time.

Whether you think politicians acted like idiots during the whole thing (which I do), it was at least a matter of life and death. Literally. It was also a matter closely tied to the pro-life/culture of life/right-to-die debate. Regardless of what side of that one happens to be on, it's hard to deny the political importance of that particular debate in this country.

How Greek life is portrayed on a cable network show doesn't quite carry the same political cachet, I don't think.

However you want to look at it, tv ratings and channel blocks are censorship. I will cite you a specific example, which actually DID happen to me when I was living in VA. Whether you want to believe it or not, there are A LOT more places that don't sell certain products to teenagers than you would think. I was turned away from buying a certain cd, also from attending a certain movie, and once even prohibited from buying a lighter. Again, all of these instances happened when I was under-aged, but they still occurred, whether you want to admit it or not.

I'll admit they happened, sure. I will not admit these were examples of censorship because they weren't. There was nothing illegal about selling you that CD or letting you into that movie. (A lighter might have been covered under a ban on selling tobacco and related products to minors, but since that doesn't involve what you are allowed to see, read or hear, it certainly cannot be considered "censorship.") Those were business decisions that some stores and theaters made because they think overall it's good for business. I can assure you that for every store or theater that turned you down, there were others that would have been glad to take your money. You would have faced no threat of punishment for owning the CD or seeing the movie, and the store or theater would have faced no threat of punishment or retaliation for selling to you or admitting you.

Again, agree to disagree. If you want to believe that there is NO CENSORSHIP in America, go ahead and do so.

Read my posts carefully. I never said that there was no censorship in America. There is.

I disagreed with your statement that "ratings are censorship" because they're not. Nothing more.

Ironically, calling on someone in the government to put pressure on ABC Family to pull the show is much closer to censorship than TV, movie or CD ratings.

I think your citation of Humpty Dumpty is fitting, because some people prefer to live in a nursery-rhyme world. In case you didn't know, nursery rhymes also have hidden meanings, just like fairy tales. Humpty Dumpty, as it seems, was actually a cannon and alludes to the conflict between Puritans and Cavaliers in England.

I know that quite well. My reference to Humpty Dumpty was to Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, however, not to the nursery rhyme.

Interestingly, Puritans are also where Americans got the idea for censorship, for which we are so often criticized by Europeans.

You do know that the word "censor" comes from the officials in the Roman Empire who had authority over public morals? You do know that the first list of "forbidden books" was published by Pope Innocent I in AD 405? You do know that when the Puritans came here, nothing could be published in England without permission from the decidedly non-Puritan Crown? The English way of doing things was pretty standard for Europe at the time, in that regard.

It was Americans, not Europeans, who first extensively curtailed the extent of censorship by constitutionally guaranteeing freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Ok, this whole discussion is now way off topic, and I'm ashamed to say that I contributed to that.

No need to be ashamed. There's nothing wrong with healthy off-topic discussion, and this isn't that far off-topic. I've seen much worse detours on GC.

Still hate the stupid idea for the show, still think it contributes to the negative view people already have about the Greek community.

Me too. The problem is, if we whine about it (because that's how the "take it off the air" demands will be perceived by the general public), we're just re-enforcing the negative view. We're much better off ignoring it/not drawing attention to it and behaving in ways that counter the negative stereotype.

[SWTXBelle]

Television is a business. ABC Family thinks the show will draw a market that they can get advertisers to want to pitch to, so if you want to complain to someone, write the advertisers. Of course, that won't be possible until you know who they are.
Do I think the show is stupid? Yes. My hope is that the show will not draw a large enough audience to continue.
I'm frustrated that television execs kill good shows off at the drop of a hat, and then try to pander by putting schlock like this on the tube.
Thank God for dvds.

[REE1993]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

One big fat WORD to everything you said

Thanks hun!

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Any elected official worth paying attention to has many, many better things to expend political capital on. They wouldn't waste time on a silly ABC Family series.

And in case you didn't know, TV show ratings and CD ratings are not censorship. Censorship means that the government or someone else with authority (such as a religious leader) is actually suppressing content deemed by the goverment (or religious body) to be objectionable for whatever reason, thus preventing people subject to their authority from seeing the "offending" material or imposing penalties for defying the censor's decision. That's not the case with TV show or CD ratings.

Recording companies themselves decide whether to put Tipper Stickers on CDs and what warning to give, and the sticker doesn't keep anybody from buying the CD. Similarly, networks themselves decide what TV Parental Guidelines to put on their shows, and those guidelines don't keep anyone from watching the shows. The only possible censorship involved with TV or CD ratings is parental censorship.

With nudity on broadcast TV, you might have a point. But the reality is that nudity broadcast on airwaves that are legally considered to be publically owned does not receive the same First Amendment protection as, say, a lame show on ABC Family (which is cable, not broadcast) purporting to be about Greek life.

Oh snizap...........somebody got wrecked.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Oh snizap...........somebody got wrecked.

Not exactly. Good job on contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

We'd all like to think that our politicians have "better things to spend political capital on" but in most cases, that isn't true. Have you heard of pork barrel spending and pushing one's own agenda? Are we now going to say that politicians are all honest, good people, who only spend time on issues that are "worthwhile"? Does Terry Schiavo ring a bell to any one? And I beg to differ on your definition of censorship. Ratings are censorship, insomuch as they seek to prohibit certain people in society from viewing or listening to certain material... I don't know about being "owned," either, to a later poster.

Ratings are not a type of censorship......they are pieces of tape on the cover of cd's and little black boxes in the corner of TV's to let the viewer or buyer know that there is a possibility that you may see or hear "offensive" material. If I want to hear Marilyn Manson sing about being the Anti-Christ (not that I actually do)......a little sticker isn't going to "prohibit" me from doing so.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Not exactly. Good job on contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

If actually contributing something useful to the topic at hand was a requirement to post, most people would have about 50 posts, if that.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Not exactly. Good job on contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

You hold your tongue.