Infringement

[JonoBN41]

Mike, do you mean the sellers of existing FDCs, or the makers of new ones?

[boz130]

These guys probably saw that the CofA was one of the most ornate in the fraternal world and chose it for that reason.

[john1082]

I had not heard of this, but I'm not surprised at all. When did this happen? An inquiring old fart mind wants to know.

Originally Posted by JoinerLxa

I think its "standard practice" for IHQ (or their legal firm) to send a
"cease and desist" letter to the perpetrators, notifying them that they
are violating U.S. law and could be prosecuted. As long as they don't
become "famous", nothing more would happen. I think that satisfies the
"defend or loose" condition for keeping the copyright.

I once was on faculty at a university in Indiana that did not allow
"fraternities". Instead they had "service/social organizations" that for
all practical purposes were local fraternities/sororities. All "unofficially"
adopted greek-letter names. One called itself "LXA"...they used our
letters, COA, and other emblems. Supposedly they were "initiated"
by LXA at Ball State U. and given permission to use LXA (at least
that's what they told their rushees).

After a little "infiltration", I discovered they knew nothing of LXA.
They didn't even know what PCC, VQV and ChTK stood for!

I also found out IHQ had sent them a "C&D letter" in the early 90's,
but had taken no further action. When I left in 2001, they had
"lost their charter" from the Univ. due to infractions, so I don't know
if they still exist...they were continuing to operate without Univ.
recognition at the time. They were basically the "football players'
frat".

FYI

[docroc67]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

Mike, do you mean the sellers of existing FDCs, or the makers of new ones?

Brother Jono,

I think the fellow in question does both. I am pretty sure that they normally go after the makers. But, they may be arguing that even the display of them in this situation is not authorized.

I am not a legal expert, but I do know that he has started to cover up the COAs on the FDCs! However, the COAs are still there when they get to the buyer.....

Happy Holidays (Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!),

Yours in ZAX,

Mike R., Z-U Zeta

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by Ottor 246

I agree. This whole thing only becomes a big deal if we don't handle it now.

It's not as if this is going to be the "trial of the century" or anything. My guess is that as soon as those jokers get a letter from a real lawyer, they'll fold up like a cheap lawn chair and steal someone else's symbol.

Ha, or when their PARENTS receive a letter from a real lawyer.

[JonoBN41]

Mike,

All this particular stuff revolves around eBay's so-called VeRO (Verified Rights Owners) program. About 5,000 participants have signed up for it.

What you mentioned about the FDCs sounds similar to what the Delta Sigma Theta sorority has undertaken. Read about their position in their Me page on eBay, paying particular attention to the last part of their statement ("in any other way engage...donate those items to DST's archives").

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&userid=dst-gt

I know of at least two collectors who've run afoul of their policies by listing their sorority pins on eBay. The organization made them remove pictures of the badges, while still allowing the sale.

Now I'm no legal expert either, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

It's like eBay saying I can sell a used Chevrolet, but cannot post a picture of the car since I'm not licensed by General Motors.

How can anyone prohibit a person from taking a picture of something they legally own? The possibilities are endless.

Does anybody else understand this stuff, or are these folks abusing the VeRO program out of pure militancy?

[PiLambda1]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

Mike,

All this particular stuff revolves around eBay's so-called VeRO (Verified Rights Owners) program. About 5,000 participants have signed up for it.

What you mentioned about the FDCs sounds similar to what the Delta Sigma Theta sorority has undertaken. Read about their position in their Me page on eBay, paying particular attention to the last part of their statement ("in any other way engage...donate those items to DST's archives").

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...&userid=dst-gt

I know of at least two collectors who've run afoul of their policies by listing their sorority pins on eBay. The organization made them remove pictures of the badges, while still allowing the sale.

Now I'm no legal expert either, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

It's like eBay saying I can sell a used Chevrolet, but cannot post a picture of the car since I'm not licensed by General Motors.

How can anyone prohibit a person from taking a picture of something they legally own? The possibilities are endless.

Does anybody else understand this stuff, or are these folks abusing the VeRO program out of pure militancy?

Fun Fact I bet no one on the board knows: DST actually USED to be an ALL-MALE Pharmaceutical Fraternity that was started in the early to mid 1800s. Their Nationals folded many many moons ago. Up until about 10 years ago there were two chapters left, Rutgers and....St. Louis College of Pharmacy. The Rutgers Chapter folded 5-7 years ago leaving the Chi Chapter of Delta Sigma Theta at St. Louis College of Pharmacy the last one left operating without a national office. They are still recognized by STLCOP as well. They go down to Harris Stowe and buy their DST stuff from them...:-)

They are a great bunch of guys!

[JonoBN41]

So....they could sue the sorority (founded in 1914) for copyright infringement?

I LOVE it!

[PiLambda1]

Originally Posted by JonoBN41

So....they could sue the sorority (founded in 1914) for copyright infringement?

I LOVE it!

I wondered that, but I'm betting the current DST might have
bought the rights...

Upon scouring the internet you find very little on the Pharmacy
Organization - that could be due to the fact they disbanded before
the internet exploded...I'm not sure on the exact date of closure.

[JoinerLxa]

Several posts back, you asked "When did all of this happen", then quoted my
previous post....so I guess you directed that at me.

The organization was founded in the 40's or 50's under the name SACHEM,
which was always its official name. I was told that in the early 80's the
local groups (which all had such non-letter names) unofficially adopted
greek letters. At that time members of Sachem partied with LXAs at
Ball State, and supposedly were made an "undeground chapter" of LXA
by the BSU chapter (Sachem's propaganda)

I contacted IHQ around 1995 (give or take a year) and someone there told
me they were aware of the situation and had sent the C&D letter, I
think around 1990-91. Their unofficial off-campus house was three houses
from where I lived at the time.....with big LXA letters nailed to a large
oak tree in the front yard.

They "lost their charter" (terminology used in the student newspaper)
around 2000, for hazing and alcohol, but continued to operate unrecognized.

I left in 2001 and don't know for sure what happened after that. I just
checked the college website, and Sachem isn't listed. (Interesting, the
University was always careful to say "we don't have FRATERNITIES, just
SERVICE organizations"...but I notice they are now listed as "Social Clubs"....
an evolutionary step towards real "Greeks"??)

However, in place of Sachem I see a new group called BOOSTERS. It
wouldn't surprise me if this isn't Sachem re-incarnated. Sachem was the
"jock club", mostly football players plus athletes from other teams.
I'd guess BOOSTERS might be this type of club now. In order for
"Sachem" to return, they would have been required to pay off any
money the old "Sachem" owed to the college before being re-recognized....
so rather than do that, they just picked a new name. Just conjecture.

Would be interesting to know if the BOOSTERS use LXA letters unofficially....
probably not...but wouldn't surprise me either if they really are
Sachem under another name.

That answer was too long, huh??

Kevin

P.S.
Somwhere I still have a baseball cap with LXA letters with 'Anderson University'
written below....a gift from a Sachem member I received around 1999!
I wonder how much this "rare item" would bring on Ebay! ha ha!

update:
After a little more web surfing, I discovered that BOOSTERS is not a new group, but
a revival of a group that existed 1932-1985; so its not a revival of Sachem and
so probably does not use LXA letters. In fact it seems these two groups were once
great rivals (both "jock" clubs).

[iMAX386]

we created our own and it happens to be similar to yours.

logic is what ive been tryin to get through to you and all the rest of your buddies and obviously failing at
so let me put it in plain english..

the crest we are using is not yours. it may resemble yours in some ways but it's unique to our cause. you should relay that message .

oh and this one too..
eat shit, frat boys.

I would love an explanation of the badge at the bottom of the shield in the coat of arms. That rather resemembles a Lambda set on top of a Chi and Alpha...I wonder the significance that has to their band. Also, why the lines of light atop the helmet when there's nothing inside the circle of lines? Just random lines? I would love to hear their secret reasoning for that. And do they even know what Xalepa Ta Kala means?

I just want to see if they can justify their cries of ownership when we can give reasoning and methodology to everything seen on that beautiful coat of arms. I would love to seem them do the same.

This really makes me laugh.

[john1082]

Joiner, thanks for the explanation. I had heard of closed chapters attempting to operate, but nothing like this!

[john1082]

I just received an e-mail from Shane Foley and he informs me that the materials in question have been removed from MySpace. We all owe Shane a debt of gratitude because I can only begin to imagine what a pain in the ass this was to deal with.

ATTABOY SHANE!!

[GammaZeta]

Nice, but who is Shane Foley John?

[john1082]

Shane is the Asociate Director of Business Affairs - or at least I think that is his title - at HQ in Indy.