Divorce or premarital Sex?

[OtterXO]

Originally posted by christiangirl
*I'm putting this in a separate reply b/c this isn't something I've seen in this thread, it's something else I want to discuss. I'm really upset about something that happened a few days ago and need to vent.*

I also think that people assume that most Christians are putting themselves on a pedastal, but really they are the ones who put us there. Isn't assuming that I am judgemental passing a judgement on me? I have heard countless times that people didn't tell me they're having sex b/c "you'd just judge me for it." I don't get invited out with my friends, because since I don't drink, they "just know you'll be in our faces about drinking." Just because I'm God's child doesn't make me Jesus. Christians (especially virgins) are HUMAN--I'm in college, if I had a dime for every time I've wanted to do something I shouldn't, I could pay off my student loans. I think when people are disappointed in their own behavior, they assume others are as well (especially those who supposedly live by a higher standard) and end up lashing out at that person for having feelings when they never did. They protect themselves from what they think my reaction will be. And I resent that people's faith in my impartialness suffers because they feel bad about what they did. If I'm your friend, then I'll love you no matter what you did. A judgement and an opinion are 2 different things. I may not like what you did and believe you need to turn from it, but I'm not gonna beat you over the head with a Bible, and if you think I am, then don't try to punish me before I get even get that far. I hate having to find out that all my friends went out without me or that I missed out on some great girl talks because they assumed I'd react a certain way and tried to keep me from doing something that I'd have never done in the first place. This isn't always, but it happens too much for me not to be annoyed.

I know I didn't get around to the thread topic, but I needed that one. I'll post something that actually makes sense later, thanx for the air space.

You know it's funny. I have a really close friend who is pretty religious. She just got married but she had saved herself for her husband, etc etc. There was a time where I felt like we didn't have anything in common. This wasn't because I felt bad about anything I was doing, it was because I knew she hadn't experienced what i was going through so I felt like it would be weird to talk with her about it. It's sort of leveled itself out now because I've grown up and she has too, but for awhile there it was definitely weird so I understand what you're saying.

However, I do think that you're missing something that may be causing the problem with your friends because i think this was the root of the problem with my friend. You said that you "think when people are disappointed in their own behavior, they assume others are as well (especially those who supposedly live by a higher standard) and end up lashing out at that person for having feelings when they never did". One thing I've noticed about people who consider themselves religious is that they assume people will feel bad about certain behaviors, having sex for example. Like it's some big dark secret. The thing that people don't realize is that people have different views of what is morally acceptable. Just because you think premarital sex is wrong doesn't mean that everyone does, nor does it mean that people feel bad about it. If your friends tell you about having sex with someone, any reaction by you suggesting that you think they feel bad about what they did-or should feel bad about it-is the exact reason they don't tell you about sex anymore. I hope that makes sense.
Just my two cents...

[Rudey]

Hello. Lots of religious girls believe in petting and blowjobs.

-Rudey
--And by petting I mean handjobs.

[xo_kathy]

Rudey - I've got that beat hands down (no pun intended). I have a good friend who suffers greatly from Catholic guilt. She had anal sex with her first serious boyfiriend because she figured that wasn't losing her virginity and was somehow "less" immoral.

[honeychile]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Rudey - I've got that beat hands down (no pun intended). I have a good friend who suffers greatly from Catholic guilt. She had anal sex with her first serious boyfiriend because she figured that wasn't losing her virginity and was somehow "less" immoral.

[Rudey]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Rudey - I've got that beat hands down (no pun intended). I have a good friend who suffers greatly from Catholic guilt. She had anal sex with her first serious boyfiriend because she figured that wasn't losing her virginity and was somehow "less" immoral.

What's her number?

-Rudey

[FHwku]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
Rudey - I've got that beat hands down (no pun intended). I have a good friend who suffers greatly from Catholic guilt. She had anal sex with her first serious boyfiriend because she figured that wasn't losing her virginity and was somehow "less" immoral.

There's a priest joke in there somwhere.

[Lady Pi Phi]

Originally posted by christiangirl
*I'm putting this in a separate reply b/c this isn't something I've seen in this thread, it's something else I want to discuss. I'm really upset about something that happened a few days ago and need to vent.*

I also think that people assume that most Christians are putting themselves on a pedastal, but really they are the ones who put us there. Isn't assuming that I am judgemental passing a judgement on me? I have heard countless times that people didn't tell me they're having sex b/c "you'd just judge me for it." I don't get invited out with my friends, because since I don't drink, they "just know you'll be in our faces about drinking." Just because I'm God's child doesn't make me Jesus. Christians (especially virgins) are HUMAN--I'm in college, if I had a dime for every time I've wanted to do something I shouldn't, I could pay off my student loans. I think when people are disappointed in their own behavior, they assume others are as well (especially those who supposedly live by a higher standard) and end up lashing out at that person for having feelings when they never did. They protect themselves from what they think my reaction will be. And I resent that people's faith in my impartialness suffers because they feel bad about what they did. If I'm your friend, then I'll love you no matter what you did. A judgement and an opinion are 2 different things. I may not like what you did and believe you need to turn from it, but I'm not gonna beat you over the head with a Bible, and if you think I am, then don't try to punish me before I get even get that far. I hate having to find out that all my friends went out without me or that I missed out on some great girl talks because they assumed I'd react a certain way and tried to keep me from doing something that I'd have never done in the first place. This isn't always, but it happens too much for me not to be annoyed.

I know I didn't get around to the thread topic, but I needed that one. I'll post something that actually makes sense later, thanx for the air space.

XO_Kathy said a lot of what I wanted to say, but I'll say it again anyway.

I think in some instances, you may be right. People may be ashamed of what they have done and therefore will not share it with you, and say that you're being judgemental. However, I also think that you're making too great a generalization.

I have very fundamentalist Southern Baptist relatives. I don't tell them that I drink, or smoke, or have premarital sex. Not because I am ashamed of my activities, but because I do not have the patience or the energy to to deal with their comments and their judgements (and eys they will judge me, because they have done it before). I love my relatives, but I do not worship the same way they do, and I would greatly appreciate it if they would respect that, but they do not. I do not have to justify my actions to them or to anyone else. When the time comes, God, who whatever higher being there may be, will do all the judging.

[xo_kathy]

Originally posted by LightBulb
An interesting read (well, I didn't read the whole thing..) about the difference between transubstantiation and consubstantiation: http://www.christiancourier.com/ques...onQuestion.htm

OK, so you should really read that link b/c it's pretty short and very interesting. Here's the first couple paragraphs (I bolded the part I found most interesting):

The word “transubstantiation” derives from Latin – trans (across), and substantia (substance). The term is employed in Roman Catholic theology to denote the idea that during the ceremony of the “Mass,” the “bread and wine” are changed, in substance, into the flesh and blood of Christ, even though the elements appear to remain the same. This doctrine, which has no basis in Scripture, first appeared in the early 9th century A.D., was formalized at the Council of Trent (A.D. 1545-63), and was reaffirmed at the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).

So one of the major things Catholics seem to really "enjoy" (for lack of a better term) is also a 'man-made' idea basically...Well, at least if you agree with what the link says.

[christiangirl]

Originally posted by Lady Pi Phi
However, I also think that you're making too great a generalization.

When I said that, I wasn't talking about everybody. I had very specific people in mind and I know they regret what they did b/c they've told me so. Sorry, I should've made myself more clear.

Other than that, you both have very excellent points and I totally agreed. While I do believe more often than not, what I said is true, the other p.o.v. that you pointed out is definitely legit and happens a lot as well. Now as far as the original post, I'm not sure if I ever covered that, so I'll give it another shot. No, it's not right for people to belittle you for your choices, not b/c they have dirt of their own, but just b/c they don't have that right. They can have as many opinions on it as they want, but if you didn't ask them, then they should keep it to themselves. A sin is a sin. If one were to acknowledge that they've sinned, they know it's wrong but keep doing it, then they obviously have something to work on. But if they don't feel it's wrong and don't really care, then at the end of time, God will let them know if they were in the right or not, so they shouldn't pick at it till then and no one else should either.

[AKA_Monet]

Christiangirl,

I think you are smart and can make plenty of decisions for yourself... Being that you are in college, you will get that "judgement" from others because you are "square", etc... Which is cool. But apparently, some of those "looser-minded" chickadees that you feel removed from because you are rather stoic on your values. Ain't nothing wrong with that, just understand that most folks just don't feel including someone who hasn't held hands with the Devil... Or SINNED!!! OMG!!!

Aside from that: Here are things I've seen and heard in my life...

My dad said to my mom when he was on a date with another woman and my mom was on a date with another guy (who was a nerd and would never do anything) (and this is in the late 1950's early 1960's at Fisk University):

"Where we y'all are goin', you cain't go..."

I also had a cousin that "came out" to an Aunt of mine who is UBER religious--like, my brother and I visited her in Alabama one summer (we're SoCalilians) and she made us read the entire chapter of Ephesians and Phillipians... Anyhooo, why my cousin who attended FAMU at the time on full ride scholarship was intertwined in a Trois movie with her housemates on crack and comes out to THIS aunt is beyond me... But she did... Incidently, my aunts son who did everything by the Book, is now getting a divorce from his wife... The other son of my aunt is like the debil since he was born--funny guy and cool as all get up, but is totally different from her first son...

Lastly, while I attended Spelman College, back in the late 1980's during the Reaganomics and Bush the Father years, there were 2 girls who were extremely religious and did exude judgemental attitudes toward those who having "fallen short of the glory of God". Anyhow, the first girl found out she was pregnant and unmarried and the guy wanted nothing to do with her... The second girl "freaked out" because she just realized she was sexually abused as a child and was about to jump off a bridge...

So, realize this, alot of what you are "witnessing" is hidden... There are some folks that are demonic in their actions and will never change... There are some folks out there that are experimental and will get burned... And there are some folks out there that will walk the straight and narrow... Hey, there are some folks that just don't know and want to hear the Good News... Either way, you have to HEAR and LISTEN to them without judgement...

What you have to understand is to be able to "walk with Kings and not loose the common touch"...

Look who Jesus Christ befriended: Tax collectors and prostitutes... The scourage of society... What does the entire text of John 3 say--not just John 3:16... And yet, Christ remained without sin... Interesting, huh???

[christiangirl]

Was all of that directed at me? I couldn't tell. Thanx for that first part though, that was sweet. But I wouldn't say I've haven't sinned or held hands with the Devil.....not right this second maybe...... Apparently you haven't heard of my book, NO WAY, I WOULD NEV--wellyeahtherewasthatonetime . When I publish it, I'll send you a copy and you'll see what I mean.

[cashmoney]

I used to love scaring those teens that go out in town preaching with their youth groups. I used to tell them that if they keep knocking on the devil's door that one day I'm going to answer it. Their eyes would get real big and they'd hurry off to their leader.

[RACooper]

Originally posted by xo_kathy
OK, so you should really read that link b/c it's pretty short and very interesting. Here's the first couple paragraphs (I bolded the part I found most interesting):

The word “transubstantiation” derives from Latin – trans (across), and substantia (substance). The term is employed in Roman Catholic theology to denote the idea that during the ceremony of the “Mass,” the “bread and wine” are changed, in substance, into the flesh and blood of Christ, even though the elements appear to remain the same. This doctrine, which has no basis in Scripture, first appeared in the early 9th century A.D., was formalized at the Council of Trent (A.D. 1545-63), and was reaffirmed at the Second Vatican Council (1962-65).

So one of the major things Catholics seem to really "enjoy" (for lack of a better term) is also a 'man-made' idea basically...Well, at least if you agree with what the link says.

Trust me the theological theory behind transubstantiation is a little more complex (then again so is Luther's consubstantiation). It has more to do with defining the nature of Christ than is does in defining ceremonial doctrines.

As for Catholics enjoying "man-made" ideas... or stuff not in scriptures... well thats basically true - the easiest way to outline the theological argument is Tradition cares as much weight as Scripture - which can in part be summarized by the basic formula of Word, Chruch, Book. The Word of Christ was first as he preached and taught (or 30-33ADish), next was the Church as run by the early apostles, with Peter (33ADish to 65ADish) being the primary one (33AD-100ADish), then came the Bible (books New Testament finally completed 80AD-100ADish).

[ilovemyglo]

My last thoughts on the original subject-
I'm not perfect, and I know that. I try to follow the ten commandments and be a good person and lead a Christian life. I love my boyfriend and if I chose to share my temple with him (my body is my temple) then I think that is a choice I make. I'l leave it at that.

To Christiangirl-
Fornication isn't a sin- sex outside of marriage yes, but fornication is still fornication even with a wedding ring on.
Also- What you were talking about is something else I experienced.
I also have a friend that is extremely fundamentalist Christian and she says she doesn't judge my actions- however, if the subject of sex or drinking comes up when she is around it becomes akward because 1. She can't relate and 2. We all know her views on it. The fact that she constantly reiterates her views lets us know that she is judging our choices.
Does that make sense?
She may not mean to come off as judgemental but she is just the same. So we don't invite her out for girls nights out, but we still spend time with her in other environments.
I am not saying you are like this, but one reason they may not invite you out is you unknowingly give off the judgemental vibe. That is how it is when she's around.


As for the Catholic thing, part of it is the Eucharist for me. My brother was engaged at one time and his fiance was thinking of converting until she found out Catholics prefer non Catholics not to partake of Eucharist at mass. It's because it isn't the same as taking the Eucharist in Protestant religions.

The big one for me was Peter, though. That is why ultimately I realized I couldnt be a part of any other Christian church.

Someone mentioned all the misnomers about Catholicism out there and my favorite thing about going to WKU was that it was further in the bible belt so I got to answer tons of questions (I am by no means a Catholic scholar!). But BY FAR the #1 thing people asked me about was why we worshipped Mary. I answered that as much as I could til I was blue in the face. One girl in my class was Church of Christ and told me I was going to hell for putting a false God before God.

[FHwku]

Originally posted by ilovemyglo
my favorite thing about going to WKU was

Big Red!

hallelujah.