Lil' Sis's

[TSteven]

Originally posted by AXiDTrish
At the school where I currently advise, one of the NIC groups has a little sister group that was very active. They have meetings, the girls do all kinds of things for the guys, etc. The guys actively recruit the women.

You may want to make the chapter aware that having a little sister group is no longer acceptable per NIC Standards. (see below) And if they don't comply ASAP, let them know you will be addressing this issue with their HQ. I'm sure neither the chapter nor their HQ would care to be presented in a bad light.

Originally posted by exlurker
...the NIC has stated in its "NIC Standards for NIC Member Fraternities," which are posted on its web site at

http://www.nicindy.org

that NIC member organizations must have as part of their national policies, a requirement that "Fraternity-chapter women's auxiliary groups (i.e. "little sisters") are not allowed." That policy is supposed to have been implemented no later than September 2004. So Little Sisters groups are, presumably, getting rarer in NIC fraternities.

[SurfinDBeach]

Wow, people get way too worked up over this stuff...

It really isn't that big of a deal...

In fact, it can be a great thing...

I'm very close with my little sisters, my big sister, and her whole house!

If you take it seriously, it honestly can be a very positive thing...


Hurts no one - is totally consentual - and actually helps build positive relationships!

[Tom Earp]

Originally posted by TSteven
You may want to make the chapter aware that having a little sister group is no longer acceptable per NIC Standards. (see below) And if they don't comply ASAP, let them know you will be addressing this issue with their HQ. I'm sure neither the chapter nor their HQ would care to be presented in a bad light.

So regardless what is wrong with helping to NIC Fraternitys?

Isnt expansion of Greeks the main thing?

[SurfinDBeach]

You said it Tom...

It amazes me how people get worked up over it...

PEOPLE, IT'S A POSITIVE THING... Stop treating it like it hurts people...

[TSteven]

Originally posted by SurfinDBeach
Wow, people get way too worked up over this stuff...

It really isn't that big of a deal...

In fact, it can be a great thing...

I'm very close with my little sisters, my big sister, and her whole house!

If you take it seriously, it honestly can be a very positive thing...


Hurts no one - is totally consentual - and actually helps build positive relationships!

If it has been *your* experience with little sister/brother organizations that they "hurts no one - is totally consensual - and actually helps build positive relationships!" then more power to your chapter and campus. However, that may not be the case for everyone else. Please see AXiDTrish and FSUZeta posts above as to how it hasn't been positive for others.

Regardless, the simply reality is that both the NIC and NPC now frown upon these types organizations for various reasons.

As I posted, I'm all for having women - Greek or otherwise - help with fraternity recruitment etc. I just personally do not see a *need* for these type of little sister organizations when you have the whole sorority system to hang out with.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by Tom Earp
So regardless what is wrong with helping to NIC Fraternitys?

Isnt expansion of Greeks the main thing?

There is nothing wrong with sororities and/or coeds helping fraternities with rush. I'm all for it.

However, I am not for fraternity expansion/rush (via little sister orginizations) at the expense of sorority membership. As is the situation at the school where AXiDTrish advises.

[Optimist Prime]

I love Nicole, our newest Dream Girl. She is a Delta Zeta.

[AGDee]

The biggest problem with it is that (as has been stated numerous times in this thread) it puts ALL of our organizations at risk of losing their single sex status. If some groups have members of the opposite sex, then we can all lose our ability to remain single sex tax exempt organizations. Fraternities, sororities, Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts, and a few other select groups fought to be able to discriminate by gender and got formal rulings to ensure that we could stay single sex organizations. Formal "little sister" groups such as the former Lambda Chi Crescents were banned for very good reasons. Our GLOs spent big money on lobbyists and attorneys to preserve our single sex status. If we lose it, we will either have to allow members of the opposite sex to join our organizations or we will lose our tax exempt status.

Additionally, the less formal lil sis/big brother type arrangements were used for what we termed "cross-hazing" when we started cracking down on hazing big time in the late 80's/early 90's. Then everybody could say "We don't haze our pledges", while allowing other groups to do it for them.

Rules don't come from nowhere. It's helpful to understand the reasons for them.

Dee

[AXiDTrish]

The 2 CA's from the NPC groups have gone to the Greek Advisor about the little sister group (it is a mini-org versus a "sweetheart"), but my approach was different. The other NPC group has been competing with this group for years and they pulled the lil sis org card.....

However, there was an incident where the President and brothers of the NIC group brought girls out from Orientation (a HUGE no-no at this school), had her "smuggle" alcohol into a concert event, putting the girls in unsafe positions driving drunk, and I will not mention other scenarios (use your imagination).....there is ONE reason I know about this.....the upcoming freshman put her whole experience, in detail, on livechat.com!!!

So, in our discussions with the Greek Advisor, I brought up the risk mgmt factor. There were multiple things that she described that were dangerous and could have negatively impacted her, the NIC, the Greek system, and since she was technically at a university sponsored event, the school! I expressed concern over her well-being versus the lil sis org. In her little journal, she outlined how the NIC was recruiting her and telling her no sororities, which she previously expressed interest in.

Sorority women help men recruit anyway, help them plan, hang out, etc....why work against the Greek system with a dysfunctional group like this one? Had this young woman stayed away and joined a chapter in the fall she could still hang out with all these guys and supported them perhaps been a sweetheart (one per chapter), but she would have support and a safety net for herself as well....

Ok, sorry, off my soapbox. Thanks Guys!

[TSteven]

Originally posted by AXiDTrish
Sorority women help men recruit anyway, help them plan, hang out, etc....why work against the Greek system with a dysfunctional group like this one? Had this young woman stayed away and joined a chapter in the fall she could still hang out with all these guys and supported them perhaps been a sweetheart (one per chapter), but she would have support and a safety net for herself as well....

Well said.

[Little E]

I think the idea of having multiple sweethearts and not trying to detract from sorority numbers is just fabulous. I wouldn't wish harm on them, so why not just work together? (well, where you can) I will say the idea of fraternity cling-ons still just makes me a little ill, but that's me. I can say that my chapter has gotten a number of new members because of our relationships with fraternity guys. To hang out there, on an anti-greek campus, it means you have some level of acceptance of the system.

[Tom Earp]

To Be honest, LXA Dropped Cresent Girls for the fact that at that point in time there was a worry of intergating He and Shes in Greek Organizations.

But unless The School or Pan Hellenic has problems, I dont see anything wrong with Ladies helping Gentlemen.

It can be a plus showing Greek Solidarity.

[AXiDTrish]

I agree...Ladies can help the gentlemen, but the gentlemen should help the ladies too by encouraging participation in female Greek orgs.

[blueangel]

I'm just a bit curious as to why it is accepted as being offensive to attack other GLO's on this forum, yet it seems to be OK to attack a Little Sister organization. The interesting thing here is that those who are launching the grenades have never been a little sister. How can one know what it's like unless one was in the organization?

As I mentioned before, I was a "Little Sister of the Shield" (Phi Delta Theta). I was not some piece of bait for rush (as some people have implied here) in fact, I didn't even attend their rush parties-- nor was I a "cling on" of a fraternity...

...AND nobody ever discouraged a Little Sister from joining a sorority. In fact, it is my experience that the exact opposit occurred. Young women who had never been directly exposed to the Greek system learned what "brotherhood" was all about, and what "sisterhood" could be for them. I saw a number of young women in our Little Sister organization go through rush AS A DIRECT RESULT of their good experiences in the program.

Being a little sister does not take up much time unless you want it to. Every activity is optional. Our once-a-week dinners at the house were optional (and they were free, by the way), the trips to the beach were optional, the parties were optional, and EVERYTHING was optional.

I was not a "cookie baker," nor did I ever hand out drinks at parties. I never was asked to clean the house, or do anything for that matter. That's not what we were there for. We were there to be a part of their "family." We were welcome to attend all of their social functions, sit with them at football games, and... they helped us if we needed it. One brother got one of the little sisters a job interview at his father's company. And conversely, one little sister helped tutor some of the pre-med brothers for their organic chem exam.

In summation, it was a wonderful way of meeting new people-- both male and female. It was never intended to REPLACE sororities, but rather, they were a complement to them.

I realize that as a forum, all sides of the issue can be discussed. I only ask that those disagreeing with the Little Sister organizations do so with respect. Please attack the idea, and not the membership.

[TSteven]

Originally posted by blueangel
I'm just a bit curious as to why it is accepted as being offensive to attack other GLO's on this forum, yet it seems to be OK to attack a Little Sister organization. The interesting thing here is that those who are launching the grenades have never been a little sister. How can one know what it's like unless one was in the organization?

As I mentioned before, I was a "Little Sister of the Shield" (Phi Delta Theta). I was not some piece of bait for rush (as some people have implied here) in fact, I didn't even attend their rush parties-- nor was I a "cling on" of a fraternity...

...AND nobody ever discouraged a Little Sister from joining a sorority. In fact, it is my experience that the exact opposit occurred. Young women who had never been directly exposed to the Greek system learned what "brotherhood" was all about, and what "sisterhood" could be for them. I saw a number of young women in our Little Sister organization go through rush AS A DIRECT RESULT of their good experiences in the program.

Being a little sister does not take up much time unless you want it to. Every activity is optional. Our once-a-week dinners at the house were optional (and they were free, by the way), the trips to the beach were optional, the parties were optional, and EVERYTHING was optional.

I was not a "cookie baker," nor did I ever hand out drinks at parties. I never was asked to clean the house, or do anything for that matter. That's not what we were there for. We were there to be a part of their "family." We were welcome to attend all of their social functions, sit with them at football games, and... they helped us if we needed it. One brother got one of the little sisters a job interview at his father's company. And conversely, one little sister helped tutor some of the pre-med brothers for their organic chem exam.

In summation, it was a wonderful way of meeting new people-- both male and female. It was never intended to REPLACE sororities, but rather, they were a complement to them.

I realize that as a forum, all sides of the issue can be discussed. I only ask that those disagreeing with the Little Sister organizations do so with respect. Please attack the idea, and not the membership.

blueangel and any others.

I apologize if any of my remarks were taken as an attack toward you and or your involvement in/with your little sister (little brother) organization. That was not my - and hopefully not anybody else's - intent. I was addressing the current status of these organizations with respect to NIC and NPC.

While I'm not sure if little sister organizations were even common at The University of Kentucky (UK) (I know we didn't have one), I did grow up in a college town where little sister organizations were prominent with many (most?) chapters. And I have many women friends who were little sisters there and at other campuses. Some were also sorority women. All were treated with dignity and respect. So I do not doubt that your experience was anything but wonderful, fun and rewarding.

However, the reality is that now both NIC and NPC frown upon these types of organizations because of legal aspects that may be inherent by the very nature of these types of organizations.

If I may paraphrase AGDee's previous insightful post. Currently, little sis/bro organizations can put all single sex GLOs at risk of losing their single sex status. And if that happens, it may very well mean that single sex GLOs will either have to allow members of the opposite sex join and/or perhaps lose tax exempt status.

You know what? I can honestly claim with all sincerity and conviction that I wasn't hazed. Yet I now know that some of the activities that I participated in are now considered hazing and or possible risk management issues. As such, while I do not think there is anything wrong with certain types of these activities, I do not/can not condone them now. Because I want to insure that our organizations continue to exist.

I can also claim with all sincerity and conviction that little sister (little brother) organizations served as a wonderful addition for many chapters and all members involved. Yet I know that little sister/brother groups may be a liability - now. And it is unfortunate, but now I can not condone these organizations for the similar reason as before. Wanting to insure that our organizations continue to exist.

Again, please accept my sincere apologies if my remarks offended you.

edited for grammar and spelling