Redskins = Racism

[sigtau305]

Originally posted by ChaosDST
That relationship between sports team and Native American group is rare.

Nevertheless, we have to look at the impact that such limited portrayals of racial and ethnic minorities, in this instance Native Americans, has on America.

I had a friend of mine at school who took part in a protest a couple of times during the summer at Jacobs Field to have the Cleveland Indians management Office get rid of the Chief Wahoo Image that was considered Offensive to Native Americans.

But It's hard to change the logo because it's been a part of the team for so long and everyone pretty much used to seeing it on the hats, Jerseys, etc. and they bringing in a pretty good amount of money from people buying those items at the sporting goods stores.

[Sistermadly]

The argument that tradition should outweight people's desire for positive representations is an interesting one, especially in light of using Native Americans as mascots.

That people can be more emotionally invested in a symbol than in a flesh-and-blood human being who is standing there telling you that such representations are insulting, hurtful, and belittling to those who adopt them speaks volumes to the level of self-centeredness that exists in our culture.

If someone stood next to you and started poking you with a stick for about 10 minutes, you'd tell them that it hurt and would ask them to stop. But what if that person answered "It's a tradition, and I'll always be a stick-poker!" and kept on doing it? Wouldn't you be annoyed and insulted that the person disregarded your wishes? Wouldn't you feel invisible and demoralized?

[Munchkin03]

Originally posted by aurora_borealis
[hijack/] Digging deeper into this is the misplaced stereotypes. Totem poles are not likely representative of your area (I don't think you live out this way Munchkin, but please correct me if I am wrong). They are specific to the Northwest Coastal areas. Woodworking like that stretches from the north west coast of the US, all the way up into Alaska including Canada. Tomahawk and squaw are both Algonquin words, which was spoken in the Eastern part of North America, so it is rather incorrect when used elsewhere. Although many groups were moved west, so the language did spread. I mean hell, for the statement that using these things is "honoring", at least get the tribe/nation/language/culture correct. [/end hijack]

Yes, there were some of us who thought that those were wrong too. But these were rednecks who happened to have a lot of money, so no one was really going to challenge them. The teacher who did was basically tarred and feathered.

[ChaosDST]

Originally posted by sigtau305
I had a friend of mine at school who took part in a protest a couple of times during the summer at Jacobs Field to have the Cleveland Indians management Office get rid of the Chief Wahoo Image that was considered Offensive to Native Americans.

But It's hard to change the logo because it's been a part of the team for so long and everyone pretty much used to seeing it on the hats, Jerseys, etc. and they bringing in a pretty good amount of money from people buying those items at the sporting goods stores.

Excellent analogy.

[sugar and spice]

Although if it's just from a marketing standpoint, they should take into account the fact that all the Indians fans would have to replace their Indians gear with gear that has the new mascot on it, thus creating more revenue.

[ADqtPiMel]

Oh my, I cannot believe I missed this thread!

mu_agd-
I'm not aware if the document is still hanging in the Miami Inn, I will have to check.

When I was a freshman, members of the Miami Tribe/Nation spoke at my residence hall. They basically said that while Miami University's mascot was established on a friendly basis, they supported its removal to set a precedent for other schools that have such mascots.

Sorry for the slight hijack

[mu_agd]

Originally posted by ADqtPiMel
Oh my, I cannot believe I missed this thread!

mu_agd-
I'm not aware if the document is still hanging in the Miami Inn, I will have to check.

last time i was in there, when you go in the front door and go to the right to go downstairs, it was hanging in that hall. don't know if it's still there or if they moved it.

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
The argument that tradition should outweight people's desire for positive representations is an interesting one, especially in light of using Native Americans as mascots.

Well said, S-M.
In Canada, we have our doozies as well:
Edmonton Eskimoes (The correct term is Inuit...Eskimo is a derogatory Cree term to mean eaters of raw meat).

Why did the Washington Bullets become the Washington Wizards? Was it because of gang violence in the DC area that "bullets" seems to suggest?

[CutiePie2000]

Originally posted by 33girl
would you really want your team to be the Rebels? I mean, if they were Rebelling, wouldn't that mean they'd be scoring touchdowns for the other team?

33girlfriend makes a very good point!

[Peaches-n-Cream]

Originally posted by CutiePie2000
Well said, S-M.
In Canada, we have our doozies as well:
Edmonton Eskimoes (The correct term is Inuit...Eskimo is a derogatory Cree term to mean eaters of raw meat).

Why did the Washington Bullets become the Washington Wizards? Was it because of gang violence in the DC area that "bullets" seems to suggest?

I think that the name was changed because of the violence associated with bullets.

[Lil' Hannah]

Originally posted by Peaches-n-Cream
I think that the name was changed because of the violence associated with bullets.

Yes, you are both correct. There was also an uproar about "Wizards" because people thought it had KKK connotations, but they ended up picking that one anyway.

[Senusret I]

Originally posted by Lil' Hannah
Yes, you are both correct. There was also an uproar about "Wizards" because people thought it had KKK connotations, but they ended up picking that one anyway.

absolutely, and as a washingtonian, i HATED the term "Wizards" not because of the "KKK connotations" but because YUCK who associates wizards with basketball? Now, the MYSTICS, that's a hot name! but wizards? *barf*

[AXO_MOM_3]

A little history...(kind of long)

I think people need to be aware of how deplorably the American Indians have been treated in the US since the anglos first set foot here...there were originally as many as 40 to 80 million American Indians living in this country. Only about 10% remained at the end of the 18th century due to disease (introduced by invaders), wars and basic annihilation.

Indians are the only population that have lost claim to their land, and forced to move to federally provided reservations. As far as Miami University goes, I seriously doubt the relationship with the Miami tribe has been that strong for 200 years. I'd love for anyone attending the school to see exactly how far back these programs and scholarships date. Did they start in 1809? Much of the land (about 30 million acres in Indiana and Illinois) the Indians sold were to pay debts for provisions and whiskey. Tribes sold each other out - the Deleware tribe sold some of the Miami tribes land. Eventually, the Miami Indian tribe was more or less forced to move to Oklahoma. And as far as the university buying the land in Oklahoma, and the Miami Indians were "willing to move and did not complain", what kind of message were they trying to send? "Okay - we are going to name the school after you, but you gotta move to another state cause we really don't want anything to do with you, we'll even pay for the land...how's that?". I don't mean to use Miami University as an example, and don't mean to offend but I have not seen any documentation about the actual relationship, and I think it might warrant a closer look. I think it is wonderful that they have such great programs for the American Indian there now, but would love to see exactly how far back these programs actually extend. And as Kitso said, it really depends on what treaty you look at, and who signed the agreement. You can read more about the Miami history at http://www.dickshovel.com.mia.html.

In 1830, the Indian Removal Act was passed - which basically meant that government could force the Indians to move further west into the frontier. The Cherokee tribe is a prime example of disharmony among tribes. MOST Cherokee members were opposed to leaving their homelands, but a small group felt the would survive only if they signed a treaty with the US, so they signed on behalf of the entire tribe (Of course the US did not care who signed the agreement as long as someone signed it and they got the Indian land they coveted). Five million dollars and a reservation in Oklahoma later, the Cherokee nation was rounded up at gunpoint and sent on their way. A few ran and made it to survive in the North Carolina hills, and that is why there are two bands of the Cherokee Nation. About one fifth of the tribe perished on the Trail of Tears. American Indians were uprooted and forced from their homes to new lands with no voice, time after time, tribe after tribe.

Kitso has referred to it, but check out the battle at Wounded Knee (http://www.dickshovel.com/DwyBrd.html.) Or http://dickshovel.com/hill.html. The US describes it as a battle, the Lakota describe it as a massacre of about 90 men and 200 women and children. The land supposedly belongs to the Lakota tribe, but in 1995 a bill was placed before congress to take that land and build a memorial. A memorial to what? Whose memorial - the US calvary or the Lakota tribe?

Until 1978, when the Indian Child Welfare Act was enacted, the American Indian cultures were decimated by forcing children to leave home at a young age, and sending them to boarding schools, where they were taught how to act like little anglo people. Indian children were taken from their homes, and placed out for adoption among white families in attempts to "civilize" the "savages". Many tribes have suffered irreparable harm to their culture, traditions and values as a result. This stopped only 25 years ago. Every other minority in America has been treated much better than the American Indian.

For about 200 years, this countries unspoken motto towards American Indians was "the only good Indian is a dead Indian". The image of the "redskin" or "warriors" speak of something other than the real people whose complexity and concerns cannot be reduced to such inadequate images, nor should be with mascots or anything else. It is majorly offensive to the American Indian, (as Kitso said, just as offensive as calling a team the N word) and I personally think that teams should respect that.

I don't mean to offend anyone, but I think people need to be more aware and culturally sensitive to the American Indian history. Educate yourself about it. You might just find yourself quite appalled and horrified by what you find.

[Senusret I]

Excellent post.

[AKA_Monet]

I'm just shocked that Kitso would passionately make such a post like this...

What is going on Kitso?

An Epiphany?