Folks need to stop drinking HATER-ADE ('Bama)

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by 33girl
ummmm.....

I don't think we (as in GC) are the ones writing a zillion stories about it in the Crimson White. But it's a Greek related story that has been put out there and therefore, we (as in GC) are discussing it and the effect it will have on Greeks nationwide.

I agree with what you are saying, but I think you are telling the wrong people.

I meant the "royal we" - including those muckrakers at the Crimson White. We may not be writing them, but we sure are paying a heck of a lot of attention to something that should not be a big deal in 2003. And trust me, if I were an alumna of the University of Alabama, I would have a lot to say to the people there. But seeing as how I'm not connected to the school in any remote way, what difference does my opinion make? What difference do all of our opinions make? Sound and fury, yes - but in the long run, what significance does it have to greek life on that campus?

I guess I'm just ticked off that Carla Ferguson is being viewed by a lot of people here and at Alabama as "the Black Gamma Phi" rather than just a Gamma Phi. It boggles my mind that in this millennium, this is considered news.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
I'd much rather deal with the overt brand of discrimination that exists in the South (and this is coming from a Southerner, mind you) than the more benign discrimination that exists in other parts of the country. At least in the South when people don't like you/don't want you, there's no hemming and hawing. You know it, you know how to deal with it (usually by laughing at them) and then you move on.

True... I wish sometimes people would just let me know that they don't like me because I'm black instead of smiling in my face like they are my friends and talk about me behind my back...

I really hate it when it becomes the North vs. the South discussion too. There are A LOT of places I seriously won't go to that are in Michigan(day time or night time)! Actually I can count on one hand how many cities I would even feel comfortable living within Michigan. There is a lot of improve ment that needs to be done EVERYWHERE in America.

Just a question... i'm sure the young lady who was admitted in Gamma Phi Beta at UA is welcomed... however... I wonder how "welcomed" other minorities (not just black) would feel if the number minorities who came out to rush went from one or two to twenty or thirty....

[33girl]

Originally posted by zchi2
Just a question... i'm sure the young lady who was admitted in Gamma Phi Beta at UA is welcomed... however... I wonder how "welcomed" other minorities (not just black) would feel if the number minorities who came out to rush went from one or two to twenty or thirty....

Then maybe it wouldn't be such a friggin big deal. I did read somewhere that there are Asian-Americans and Latinas in some of the groups at UA. How many, I don't know.

[zchi2]

Originally posted by 33girl
Then maybe it wouldn't be such a friggin big deal. I did read somewhere that there are Asian-Americans and Latinas in some of the groups at UA. How many, I don't know.

It might not be a big deal... but from MY experience... It's ok when there are only one or two minorities in certain groups (I'm not just talking about fraternal organizations) but when the number increases from 1% to 20-30%, then people stop being so welcoming...

[33girl]

oh OK, I understand. thanks for clarifying.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by Sistermadly
I'd much rather deal with the overt brand of discrimination that exists in the South (and this is coming from a Southerner, mind you) than the more benign discrimination that exists in other parts of the country. At least in the South when people don't like you/don't want you, there's no hemming and hawing. You know it, you know how to deal with it (usually by laughing at them) and then you move on.

Oh, and while we're trading anecdotes about the liberalism of the Midwest, let me tell the story of a good friend of mine who, when his family moved to Atlanta from Wisconsin, was told to "be careful in (n-word) town" and "watch your back, keep your doors locked, and stay away from (n-word)."

Playing tit-for-tat gets us nowhere. Racism sucks. Period. That being said, I often wonder if there's any real purpose in threads like this on GC? We all have our firmly entrenched positions, and y'know, it's great to trade them and all, but do you (we) honestly think we're going to convince someone to change his/her mind based on something they read on a message board?

I think it's ridiculous to assume that "benign racism" exists only in the North and "hostile overt racism" exists only in the South. I've seen incidents of both all over the United States. One of my African-American teachers said she feared for her life because of her race more in Indiana than any other state she'd taught in. There are plenty of benign racists in the South (and plenty of people who aren't very racist at all!), and there are plenty of hostile racists in the North.

But the fact of the matter is that we aren't seeing nearly as many incidents like this one happen in the North as we are in the South, at least not within the Greek system. Why is that?

The South has race issues. That DOESN'T mean that the rest of the country doesn't.

[Tom Earp]

Well, why dont we all get over this shit, Yes, I did not stutter!

We have been through this a lot of times!

I am not Racist, hell, I dont like anybody!

Did any of you know that some one was of a different pigmantation from the name or the Greek Letters? DAHA!

Nope, did you?
Some of the pettiness of color clouds a lot of minds, but why does it have to be on here? If you do not like my phylosophy, then you too may kiss my Rainbowed ?

Is there still racisim going on!? Will it still go on? Will We be bigger than it?

If you dont like I am a Honkey Pig, or a Gentile, or a Round Eye, or a what the hell ever, F**Kyou. I am a person who Cares, do you?

Each and everyones Self Importantance is getting underwhelming!

I have been notified by several people that they may drop out of GC. Why, just for this same S**T.. I have been thinking of it also, but why should I let of Bunch of Snakes run me OFF!

YOU EACH MUST MAKE UP YOUR MINDS!

In OR Out!

You are a guest here, that is all!

[Sistermadly]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I think it's ridiculous to assume that "benign racism" exists only in the North and "hostile overt racism" exists only in the South. I've seen incidents of both all over the United States. One of my African-American teachers said she feared for her life because of her race more in Indiana than any other state she'd taught in. There are plenty of benign racists in the South (and plenty of people who aren't very racist at all!), and there are plenty of hostile racists in the North.

Seeing it -- especially from the perspective of an outsider -- is one thing. Living day to day in BOTH regions as a non-white person is quite another.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If you haven't walked in my shoes, you haven't lived my experience (nor have I lived yours). I think it is fair to say that in cases of racism or perceived discrimination, perspective is EVERYTHING.

Oh, and FWIW, I never said that the discrimination that exists in the south is only hostile. One of the most interesting experiences I had was with an old white woman who kept calling me 'gal' -- and couldn't for the life of her figure out why I found it offensive. Did I fly off the handle? No. Did she? No. It was a very genteel exchange - but it was still an overt case of racism.

I've had folks in the South tell me to my face that they don't like coloreds/nigras/blacks. They were as polite as they could be about it - but at least they were up front. These days, I don't sense that kind of willingness to express bigotry from the Northerners I interact with - instead, it comes out in more subtle ways, like saying no more apartments are available when I go to look at a place, but suddenly the place is available when my (non-Black) husband goes to look. That is what I meant by the distinction. I hope it clears it up for you.

White_Chocolate,

I had to go through twice and I am white. So what was wrong with me?

[KillarneyRose]

Originally posted by ztawinthropgirl
White_Chocolate,

I had to go through twice and I am white. So what was wrong with me?

Maybe they thought you were obnoxious.

[VirtuousErudite]

Originally posted by KillarneyRose
Maybe they thought you were obnoxious.

He he he

[BobraFCD]

I was the first African-American to pledge AOII at U of Illinois in the Fall of 1985. The local newspaper did a story on me after I initiated. I remember thinking, "I hope this isn't such a big deal 20 years from now." I had the same accusations made by people who were not asked to pledge AOII. They figured that somehow an affirmative-action plan was the reason I got in and they didn't.

But for people who were taught and ignorantly believed their skin color inherently makes them superior to someone, this is the only rationalization their brain can muster. Most people simultaneously believe that "all men are created equal" and "I am better than you because of my (fill in the blank-race, religion, socio-economic background, hair texture, whatever.)


It didn't bother me too much because I grew up in a small town with integrated schools and always had more white friends than black--that was my environment. Pledging AOII didn't surprise anyone who knew me, but for a campus where most people grew up in more homogenous environments, it was different.

Overall I had a GREAT experience and I'm still involved in my alumnae chapter. I knew going into it that it would be an educational experience for a lot of people, myself included.

I really prepared myself emotionally before making the decision--things like the possibility of being ostracized by both black and white greeks, people staring when I wore letters, and well-meaning people making dumb remarks. Then there were social issues--like dates for dances. Finding blacks who were comfortable going to an AOII dance or dating white men. But these weren't new issues--I'd been dealing with them my whole life.

I'm sure this woman thought about or already had been experiencing these things. Anyone who has ever been the "only" in a group is painfully aware they are different. It's a matter of comfort level with that.

[APhi Diva]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
My guess is that all the other sororities cut her. It wouldn't really be that surprising at Bama.

Basically the accusation being made is that "the Machine" promised to let Gamma Phi join if they accepted a black woman. The Machine is getting sick of everyone telling them how racist they are, so they decided to de-segregate the sorority system this year. However, none of the "top" chapters wanted to risk their reputations by bidding an African-American, so they wanted one of the not so prestigious sororities to do instead. They promised Gamma Phi entrance into the Machine as a bribe, which would theoretically raise their social standing on campus.

Now who knows how much of that is true. But the thing I think is hilarious is that if parts of it are true, and the Machine sororities are so worried about how their reps will suffer as a result of taking a black new member that they make a less prestigious chapter do it -- they're so worried about their reputation on the Bama campus that they are making themselves look like idiots to the rest of the world. Outside of the Bama Greek system, Gamma Phi comes off as the most enlightened and classy sorority of the bunch whereas the other groups come off like racist snots.

Sugar and Spice, you are DEAD on the money! I followed the story fairly closely when it broke and some of the posts on the Crimson White's website were just FRIGHTENING! I had no idea that such racists losers still existed, let alone considered themselves members of decent society!

My heart goes out to Ms. Ferguson for enduring what must continue to be a difficult situation and the hate inflicted on her by bunch of closed minded a**holes!

[Tom Earp]

I suggest a mixture of one part to one part:

Hater Ade with Pimp Juice!

Pimp Juice one may ask?

Born in Kansas City and Bottled in St. Louis!

Maybe that will make a better tasting drink?

If this story ends up being true, this is quite sad. The sorority that took her should be proud of her. I most certainly hope so. Do you guys know if she's still in the sorority? I might have missed that in the article.

If she is still in, I hope she becomes president of that sorority because she could really shake things up at that school if the story is true.

As I have said earlier, it's a shame Northerners and others like to look at the South as a group in general rather than as individuals. The South has overcome the racial divides it experienced in the 60's and in earlier years. I mean look at Charlotte, NC and Atlanta, GA! You also have Memphis, TN (which brought everyone Elvis, by the way) and Columbia, SC. It's a shame people can't get over something that happened almost 40 years ago (i.e. Civil Rights Movement) or even 150 years ago (i.e. Civil War). They're over and done with! Let's move on!