Wake Forest Chi Omegas Relinquish their charter

[mullet81]

Isn't a new sorority colonizing at Wake forest? I thought I read that on here?

If so, does anyone know if they were invited to colonize before or after all of this happened with Chi Omega?

[33girl]

Originally posted by mullet81
Isn't a new sorority colonizing at Wake forest? I thought I read that on here?

If so, does anyone know if they were invited to colonize before or after all of this happened with Chi Omega?

AFAIK they were invited to colonize before all this happened.

Incidentally, your user name has been cracking me up every time I see it.

[mullet81]

Originally posted by 33girl
Incidentally, your user name has been cracking me up every time I see it.

Hehe, I don't have a mullet - i'm just OBSESSED with them, as crazy as that is!

In the words of Puck from Real World, "it's business in the front and a party in the back!"

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by AGDee
I read this post a couple of hours ago and (not attacking S&S here), I think it shows the kind of thinking that has gotten the GLOs in trouble in the first place. None of our GLOs were founded on principles of access to alcohol and sex yet, at some campuses, this is what students see it as now. That idea is perpetuated by tv shows, movies, etc and it has gotten the GLOs into trouble. I understand that this is how many see the Greek System and this troubles me deeply. All of the GLOs are trying very hard to get back to their founding principles for the betterment of the whole Greek System.

Each time that I hear some awful story (like the 18 year old at the U of Michigan who "fell" out of her dorm window after drinking at a fraternity party a couple years ago), the first thought in my head is "I hope that wasn't an Alpha Gam". Am I thinking this because that means the liability insurance will go up and the lawsuits will fly? No. Am I thinking this because I don't want Alpha Gams to get bad press? No. I'm thinking this because I don't ever want to hear about a sister dying an untimely and unnecessary death. Are the rules in place just because of money? No way! I don't ever want to hear about a sister being raped or drugged. I don't ever want to hear about a sister being killed in a drunk driving accident or killing someone else in a drunk driving accident. I don't want my sisters to get Hepatitis C or HIV because of risky behavior. I don't want my sisters to deal with the stress of getting pregnant while in college or dealing with pictures taken of them doing embarassing things which then get posted on the internet. I don't want any of my sisters to go to a job interview in 5 years and be recognized by one of the VPs of the corporation as the girl who slept with all his brothers in college.

What I want for members of Alpha Gamma Delta (and all GLOs for that matter) is to see confident young women with strong self esteem who care enough about themselves and their health to NOT engage in these risky behaviors, most of which could have life long effects.

When I think back to my collegiate years, my fondest sorority times are not when we were dragging some drunk sister out of some guy's bedroom or taking away the car keys or taking a sister to ER because of some trauma that had occurred. This isn't what Greek Life was about. My fondest memories are alcohol free, sex free... the night in December that the two sisters I lived with decided it was time to decorate for Christmas and we created a paper tree on our wall... the support I received when my father had a heart attack... the sisterhood retreat where each Initiation class performed a skit or song about our sisterhood and played Scruples all night long.. those are the things you remember, those are the memories you want to build. Sometimes, the alumnae of your chapters may seem like they are just laying down the law and not letting you have fun, but maybe they have developed some wisdom over the years and don't want you to make the same mistakes they (or their sisters) did.

Lastly, there were a lot of honors organizations, Christian organizations, student government, and other activities that got a lot of members without having to use the promise of alcohol and sex to get them.

Dee

Maybe my perception is a little skewed here, coming from the recently proclaimed #2 party school in the nation and #1 in both beer and hard liquor consumption (thank you, Princeton Review ) . . . but you cannot remove alcohol from the college culture. If you could, my school's administration would have done it long ago. But the fact of the matter is that social Greeks, as a whole, are more likely to be social than non-Greeks, they are more likely to party, and in college, partying usually involves alcohol consumption.

I'm not saying that EVERY person who joins the Greek system does it to drink and party and meet the opposite sex. But many do. I've talked to others in smaller Wisconsin Greek systems and those in big Greek systems across the country (mainly Big 10, Big 12, SEC schools) and the message remains the same: We drink a lot. We party a lot. And in some cases, we continue to promote the stereotypes with our actions at the same time as we claim they aren't true.

I think that some of us within the Greek system are so desperate to counteract the Animal House stereotype that we start acting like the Greek system is all about philanthropy and leadership opportunities and academics. I'm sorry, but that's simply BS. We're called "social Greeks" for a reason. Sure, philanthropy and leadership and academics are important factors, but the social part is still the overriding one.

As for our policies not being to prevent lawsuits, but rather to protect the members -- again, if you actually examined the policies you'd see that this is wrong. If the case was to prevent harm to members, for example, we'd be allowed to drink in the sorority house. After all, where am I more likely to get raped -- in the house lounge while drinking with my girls, or out drinking at a fraternity party? Am I more likely to get hit by a car while drinking in the house, or traisping across campus to the bars? Not allowing drinking in the house also encourages drunk driving. So why is it against the rules? Because our national HQ doesn't want to get sued if one of us falls down the stairs drunk and splits her head open.

I'm not complaining about that -- it's intelligent on their part to do it, since most HQs would be bankrupt after one or two significant lawsuits. But let's not pretend that HQs have the purest motives for everything, because they don't.

[DeltAlum]

S&S,

Your comments about drinking in the sorority house are exactly right, but you didn't mention the one reason that sorority houses are dry -- and that is that drinking and partying in your own house tends to trash the house, and liability insurance rates soar. Which, of course, is why fraternity insurance is so much higher than sorority insurance. Sororities understand that.

Truth of the matter is that a huge percentage (I don't remember the number) of insurance claims for damage and other liability in fraternity houses is for damage caused by visiting women.

And we all understand that college drinking isn't going to go away.

But if we don't get a handle on some of this stuff, we as a system will go away instead.

At the very least, it is incumbent on us as advisors, officers, etc. to attempt to enforce the rules -- even if it's a lost cause. I mean, how would it look to the courts if we just threw our hands up in the air and let things run wild?

[sugar and spice]

I get what you're saying, but what I'm saying is this: I think the system is going to die regardless. Sororities and fraternities can't survive with no rules governing alcohol, for example, because of the threat of lawsuits -- but the majority of college students won't join an organization that restricts their drinking and access to the opposite sex. Either way, we're looking at a serious decline in membership.

As it is, most college students don't realize that many sorority houses don't allow boys in the bedrooms or alcohol in the house, but more and more students are figuring this out every year. Many fraternities don't yet have "dry house" policies, though most will have to consider it soon enough with insurance rates going through the roof. Others are allowing old chapters to be grandfathered in to new dry policies, but eventually they too will be converted. Once all of this changes, the system is almost guaranteed to die off. College students are not going to pay hundreds to thousands of dollars a year for the privilege of doing volunteer work and study tables. Hey, if I was only here to do volunteer work, I'd send my $650 check each semester straight to St. Jude's instead of to the Tri Delt HQ.

I don't really blame the national and international HQs for this (most of the time they're doing what they have to do), but neither do I blame the students. What needs to change is the lawsuit-happy culture that we live in, where legal loopholes matter more than common sense -- but the culture won't change. So where do we go from there?

[33girl]

The thing is, it's not even **partying** in the house. You can't have a glass of wine with dinner, or a beer or 2 after a hard day. It's treated the same as having a full-scale blowout. That's asinine, and a large part of why some sororities are having problems filling their houses.

As an independent woman (tm Beyonce...LOL), the whole concept of having to "use" the men's houses or parties with the men as a place to drink sickens me. It just furthers the concept that sorority membership revolves around, and sorority members are dependent on, men.

[sugar and spice]

Originally posted by 33girl


As an independent woman (tm Beyonce...LOL), the whole concept of having to "use" the men's houses or parties with the men as a place to drink sickens me. It just furthers the concept that sorority membership revolves around, and sorority members are dependent on, men.

Yes, yes, yes! I was going to mention this earlier.

It puts us in debt to these guys, so to speak, and there's a balance of power that definitely falls in their favor, which makes me uncomfortable. I know there are plenty of fraternity guys out there whom I'm sure don't see it as the sorority girls "owing" them something, but I'm also sure that there are fraternity guys out there who do -- and I don't really want to think about how that kind of imbalance of power could manifest itself.

[DeltAlum]

Originally posted by sugar and spice
I get what you're saying, but what I'm saying is this: I think the system is going to die regardless. Sororities and fraternities can't survive with no rules governing alcohol, for example, because of the threat of lawsuits -- but the majority of college students won't join an organization that restricts their drinking and access to the opposite sex. Either way, we're looking at a serious decline in membership.

edit

I don't really blame the national and international HQs for this (most of the time they're doing what they have to do), but neither do I blame the students. What needs to change is the lawsuit-happy culture that we live in, where legal loopholes matter more than common sense -- but the culture won't change. So where do we go from there?

Vis a vis your first paragraph, I think the jury is still out on that. I've heard men from newly dry chapters saying everything from numbers actually being up -- best thing that ever happened to us; to numbers dwindling. It's going to take a while to sort this out.

If they system doesn't die, it will certainly change.

Nobody I know would disagree with your final paragraph above -- but, you're correct again, that just ain't gonna happen.

So, maybe what that means is that someday there will be Greek Letter Organizations who have moved back to their roots and the reasons for their founding rather than places to party.

Or, maybe the system will die.

[33girl]

I kind of doubt we will go back to being "literary societies."

Sororities and fraternities began because colleges weren't offering anything except academics. That isn't true today.

We repealed Prohibition once, hopefully our country will get a clue and repeal the "young adults' prohibition" sooner rather than later. It's been a failure all around.

[AGDee]

Originally posted by DeltAlum
Vis a vis your first paragraph, I think the jury is still out on that. I've heard men from newly dry chapters saying everything from numbers actually being up -- best thing that ever happened to us; to numbers dwindling. It's going to take a while to sort this out.

If they system doesn't die, it will certainly change.

Nobody I know would disagree with your final paragraph above -- but, you're correct again, that just ain't gonna happen.

So, maybe what that means is that someday there will be Greek Letter Organizations who have moved back to their roots and the reasons for their founding rather than places to party.

Or, maybe the system will die.

I agree that it isn't clear whether numbers decline when chapters go dry. Sorority houses have been dry for decades, it's not a new thing and membership has it's ups and downs for many reasons.

I know of one chapter who was put on social probation and they could have mixers but only alcohol free mixers. The initial reaction was "none of the guys will want to party with us then". However, the fraternities on campus supported them through their difficult year, partied with them and some members even found out that you really can have fun without alcohol. Their numbers did NOT decline and their GPA rose!

Numerous studies have shown that the numbers of college students who engage in "binge drinking" (more than 5 drinks in a night) is on the rise but no organization can condone underage drinking or binge drinking. Perhaps some of the rules would be different if everybody drank responsibly, but unfortunately, that isn't the case.

GLOs have a lot more to offer than just doing community service and having study tables.. you're forgetting the most important thing, which is Sisterhood and Brotherhood. No other organization offers that!!!

Dee

[justamom]

SNS-I'd send my $650 check each semester straight to St. Jude's instead of to the Tri Delt HQ.
OT for a moment, but that's where MY extra money goes...and "Make a Wish" as well!

Just got wind of this. For me, the jury is still out. Things are so complicated these days when you consider all the legal ramifications.

I do agree with everyone, this is a very "heartbreaking" scenario.
I tend to side with the chapter on a few SELECT points, since there APPEARS to be a far better way this situation could/should have been handled by HQs.

The girl who read off the definition of hazing in regard to the ladies and their instant, forced replies made me smile. I think I would have done the same thing, AT 18 , that she did.

[doubleblue&gold]

I feel really sad for those that think they can't be happy or have fun if they can't drink in their orority house. It isn't the end of the world. if you go somewhere else and think about your sisters instead of yourself.

There ae actually women that don't drink....imagine that! They might like knowing their GLO is protecting them by following rules. And they might appreciate less pressure to follow the crowd and start.

You also have to know what the laws are in the college community. In my state, it is against the law to have alcohol on state property----that means none on campus and in the dorms. I'm realistic enough to know it happens but it isn't out n the open and there aren't big parties with alcohol on campus.

And.....you know what? Everyone still has parties with alcohol off campus, follows the rules, and still has fun.

[ZTAMich]

This topic hit home for me in a way. Somewhat from the other side though.

My chapter was a local as were 2 of the other 3 sororities on campus. We all take a lot of pride in our history, over 100 years in some cases! BUT I think there is a fine line here when it comes to locals becoming national ogrs. It's ok to have pride in what you were but it should not hinder you from becoming the new org you have agreed to be. Often times my sisters and I think it would still be cool to be our local but know we love Zeta and what it stands for more than anything else. There are other goups on our campus though that we know still carry out MANY of the traditions and activities that their local did and get away with it which really bothers us. For goodness sake get your XYZ stuff out of your living room since you're ABC now! Grrr

As much as I feel for these girls...I don't know...it just seems like they wanted a hand in each pot and you can't do that. They want to sing a special Chi Omega song but still do stuff their local did?? They sound confused. Exactly how I was with many life decisions at 18.

[adpiucf]

I have enjoyed reading the many opinions offered on this thread.

I personally do not believe the Greek System will die as a result of dry houses. I believe the Greek System will change. We have weathered many storms over the years, and the face of our membership continues to evolve.

People do not go Greek exclusively to consume alcohol. They do not Go Greek for the Study Hours, nor necessarily because they have already chosen a pet philanthropy. People go Greek to make friends and to be part of a group. Today's likely collegiate joiners are those who have good grades, a reasonable amount of background in leadership/campus participation/community service and who conform to federal laws. Not every PNM meets every single one of these criteria-- but people go Greek to make friends. In the college environment, alcohol is a social lubricant, and naturally will be part of group functions, regardless of if that group is Greek or not. However, due to the nature of Greeks-- being "exclusive" and "secret" societies-- any excuse to poke a hole in the fabric that binds us as Greeks (such as cases involving execssive alcohol, etc.) is going to be used. Our HQ's are only trying to protect and preserve our orgs by enforcing stricter policies regarding alcohol consumption and lessening their liability--- so that the mistakes of a chapter don't rock the entire national group, and ultimately cause the national group to fold. Remember, your chapter is part of a larger body, and the actions of your chapter members reflect back on you personally, your chapter, your Greek System, your university and your national GLO.