Religion question...

[Eirene_DGP]

I was not raised in very religious home besides when my mother wanted to shove religion down me and my brother's throat when it was convenient. It seemed to me that having a "church home" in the south was very important and I always believed in God even though Christianity was not practiced in our home. My mother's biological family is Catholic and because my grandmother decided to give my mother up for adoption, my mother decided that she wanted nothing more to do with the faith. Fortunately, I kept in touch with the family and was attracted to the church since middle school. After I studied other faiths to make sure Catholicism was really the route I wanted to take. I was confirmed at 18 my freshman year in college.

[AZpinkkittie]

I definitely agree with you DWAlphaGam. I was baptized Catholic as a baby, but never really followed the faith. My parents weren't big church goers and I was really only baptized to make my maternal grandmother happy (big hispanic Roman Catholic woman). My sister on the other hand became very involved with church at the end of middle school and went through confirmation and everything. I certainly believe in God and and the basic teaching of morality but a lot of the "rules" and ceremony involved with many religions, I think, can ruin that for some people. I am a big believer in the idea that you can have a relationship with God and be a good person without claiming any faith in particular or going to church every week.

[Kevin]

I was raised in the Catholic Church, the only one of 3 brothers that still practices (it wasn't forced on us at all). I went to a Catholic HS and was actually given the opportunity there to debate a lot of church philosophy. There, I was introduced to Aquinas.

If you're Catholic you should check out Summae Theologica (you might want to get a condensed version or a book about it since it's 26 volumes). St. Thomas Aquinas actually reconciles most of the Catholic Doctrine at that time with Aristotalian Logic. Much of his reasoning is very sound -- there's still something of a leap of faith, but I think that Aquinas makes it more tolerable.

I don't agree with 100% of what my church believes (who does?) nor would I consider myself to be a perfect Catholic.

I haven't been going to Church lately but might actually start going if I can find a job that doesn't require me to work Sundays. If I ever have kids they will definitely be raised in the church. If I get married, I'd like to have that done in the church as well.

[valkyrie]

Originally posted by MysticCat81
<diversion to soapbox>

I fear I will offend some people by saying this, but I think I need to say it anyway.

It ain't that simple. It is romantic, egalitarian and "pseudo-tolerant" to say it is that simple, but it just ain't. And in my opinion, it can be offensive to say it is.

One example: traditional Buddhism is nontheistic/atheistic. That is, traditional Buddhism says there is no God. As a specific citation, the Dalai Lama says there is no God. Thus, many if not most Buddhists do not believe in a Supreme Being. Universal forces, perhaps, but not a Supreme Being, by whatever name. For me, as a monotheist and a Christian to say "we all believe in the same thing/a Supreme Being, we just call it by a different name" not only ignores reality, but it shows, in my opinion, a disrespect for Buddhists who sincerely believe there is no Supreme Being. It's like me saying I know more about what they believe than they do.

And that doesn't begin to scratch the surface of the diametrically opposed views of a Supreme Being some religions present.

I'm all for tolerance and understanding between religions. But I think the first steps in tolerance and understanding is to recognize our differences and to avoid declaring "agreement" where there is no agreement.

Truly sorry if I have offended anybody.

</soapbox>

Thank you! I'm Buddhist, and to me, Buddhism does not include a belief in God or any other supreme being. I was going to say something like what you said, although not nearly as well as you've said it.

[justamom]

I believe our soul is energy. I believe energy never dies it changes form. When we die, depending on the energy we posses (be it negative or positive), THAT will determine how strong the force that draws us to the purest energy (God) and how close to him we will be. Now I don't know where this thinking would fall, but
I do consider myself very spiritual.

Question on Buddhism. Do you believe in the different levels of
atonement (Is it 7???) and if not, what faith is that?

Second-Once we die, if you do NOT believe in a Supreme Power
and you suddenly discover their is ONE GOD, do you think you are in serious trouble and banned to hell, or will you be forgiven?
My take refers back to the positive and negative energy you have acquired during your life.

St. Thomas Acquiness (sp?) said it is better to question, seek answers and return a believer than to never question at all.
The faith of a seeker has been tested and so it goes the faith is stronger.

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
My problem w/ any church that discourages questioning is that if they had something really good they should encourage questioning. Like if you were buying a great car, wouldn't the salesperson be open to any question? Likewise, if it were a lemon, wouldn't the salesperson be rather sketchy and elusive? I think what causes so many people to stray or just leave is the fact that there are so many answerable unanswered questions. So sad.

I agree! I think somepeople get weird when you ask questions about their faith because they don't know the answers themselves and it will display their ignorance/insecurities. Also, some authority figures have a real issue with admitting they are wrong. I certainly don't hvae all of the answers about my faith, but I don't have a problem with someone asking! If I don't know I'll try to find out.

[Eirene_DGP]

Wow Justamom, that was pretty deep. I always wondered how believers of ____ (insert your faith here) would react if they found out ______ was the real religion.

*edited b/c i left out justamoms name.

[MTSUGURL]

I am a Christian - I became one at 5 years old. I have always believed in God, that Jesus is God's son, He died and rose to save us from sin, etc. I have not always been as strong in my faith and practiced it to the extent that I should, but I believe that God is gracious and good and forgiving. Something that people tend to forget about churches when they decide to go off on a tirade: Churches are full of PEOPLE. People don't become perfect and less human when they practice a religion or faith, yet sometimes a person can be so quick to blast them for offenses that the person theirself is practicing. I don't agree with everything my church teaches, and I believe that it is the responsibility for every person to give a thorough and intelligent answer when asked why they believe what they believe.
My brother grew up southern baptist, and now thinks he's Catholic. He goes to Mass once a year, and married a Catholic girl (who was not practicing) and my nephew was christened in a Catholic church. Evidently, all this makes him Catholic.

[astroAPhi]

When I was 7, I was baptized in the Lutheran church where my parents were married, mostly because my grandmother threw a fit when she found out I wasn't. It's not to say that I didn't believe in God, or that my whole family didn't go to church... I guess it just slipped my parents mind. It was a very happy day for me and although I wasn't the biggest expert on religion at age 7, it held some very good memories and I was proud to be baptized.

I continued to believe and grow spiritually throughout adolesence. We switched to a popular non-denominational church, Willow Creek Community Church (I'm mentioning this because, believe it or not, a lot of people have heard of it). They do "baby dedications" because they want it to be the person's choice and based on a lot of thought. Basically the parents promise to raise their child to know Christ so that they can make the decision when they're older.

When I was 18, I chose to be rebaptized though. I made a big step when I was 15, even though I had thought all along that Jesus was my savior, it was then that I publicly proclaimed it and truly felt like I had dedicated myself.

I'd say that being baptized when you are old enough to make the decision yourself is definitely important. Being educated as a child is also important too, but if the decision isn't your own, or something you're not ready for, then I don't think you truly believe, and (IMHO of course) God doesn't want to force you into faith because he wants you to truly love him, not just be forced to.

And I'm sorry if this was super preachy "the story of astroAPhi's life", but I've had a really good experience and I like to share it in hopes that people will understand my point of view better.

[FeeFee]

Originally posted by Eclipse
I am one of those people who talked about being confirmed because of expectations, not because of any internal change. As a Christian I think it is important for parents to realize that they cannot "make" their children be Christians. Christianity is about an inward change, not an outward declaration. You can make all of the outward declarations in the world, but if there had not been a true, inward change, then it really means nothing in the eyes of God.

I think parents should explain what giving your life to Christ means (if they are Christians) and let the child know it is their decision and what the consequences are. I'm not sure where this is, but I think the Bible says something about children being covered by their parents until they are at the "age of cencent." and at that point they are kinda on their own with salvation.

To answer your question, I attend a Baptist church and my pastor makes certain when a little kid comes down to "give his/her life to Christ" that they are doing it because they want to, not because their parents told them too. IF the kids says I came down because mama told me too he has a little talk with the parent saying I know you want your child to be saved, but this is not the way, etc. It's very loving and gentle. He then tells the child when THEY are ready to come back and if they have any questions about God, etc. to ask. I think that is the best way.

Bottom line, I think children should be taught about God/Jesus/Holy Spirit from the moment they come out of the womb, but they ultimately need to make the decision.

I completely agree. I attend a Pentacostal church and my pastor does the same thing when a young person goes to the alter to "give their life to Christ", he make sure that it's the young person's decision and not because Mommy, Daddy or Grandma told them to. Dedicating one's life to Christ should be a willing, voluntary action.

[swissmiss04]

I think it's great when people wait til they're "mature" to dedicate themselves to their religion (if their faith requires such a thing). I think a little bit of testing beforehand is a good idea because especially in churches which emphasize emotions over reason, people get caught up in stuff, and then backslide pretty quickly. That not only hurts the person but reflects badly on his/her faith. I find it fascinating that in Judaism (traditionally) a person who approaches a synagogue to convert is refused up to 3 times, to test their conviction. Some people say "Oh how harsh and unwelcoming!" But I bet it keeps out the "religious nuts". At my mosque some of the ladies will work to help anyone convert. They've "converted" about 4 people who have certifiable mental problems. According to Islam, those who are insane or mentally incapable are not accountable to God for their actions. It's an embarrassment for me and my faith, and these people don't even realize they've converted. One lady shows up at the mosque in shorts and a tank top and a bandana tied around her head. Another calls people and asks what religion she is. Another talks about "the blood of christ" at the mosque.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by swissmiss04
I find it fascinating that in Judaism (traditionally) a person who approaches a synagogue to convert is refused up to 3 times, to test their conviction. Some people say "Oh how harsh and unwelcoming!" But I bet it keeps out the "religious nuts".

That's true. I was not formally "refused", but the first rabbi I approached really, really, REALLY didn't want to work with potential Jews-by-choice (an odd attitude for a campus chaplain!) so he set ridiculous requirements - he told me I'd have to learn Yiddish among other things. I found another rabbi.

Judaism also does not proselytize. Jews don't go out and seek converts; you have to go to them.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by aephi alum
That's true. I was not formally "refused", but the first rabbi I approached really, really, REALLY didn't want to work with potential Jews-by-choice (an odd attitude for a campus chaplain!) so he set ridiculous requirements - he told me I'd have to learn Yiddish among other things. I found another rabbi.

Judaism also does not proselytize. Jews don't go out and seek converts; you have to go to them.

And that is why I have an utmost respect for Judaism. I cannot stand proselytizing. If somebody wants to be your religion, seek them out. Don't force them to convert - a lot of my friends "converted" because they got talked into it - they have no idea of the difference between being Catholic and, oh, say Mormon.

Apparently a few years ago Campus Crusade for Christ showed up on Marquette's campus and tried to convert. They weren't very successful, and the Jesuits had a field day with them.

[ZTAMiami]

Originally posted by aephi alum
Judaism also does not proselytize. Jews don't go out and seek converts; you have to go to them.

Neither does Catholicism!

Every once in a while we get a pamphlet on our apartment door with a drawing of people burning in hell and a phone # to contact a man who can help us be 'saved'.........whatever, like that's really gonna convince me

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally posted by ZTAMiami
Neither does Catholicism!

Every once in a while we get a pamphlet on our apartment door with a drawing of people burning in hell and a phone # to contact a man who can help us be 'saved'.........whatever, like that's really gonna convince me

Oh, I won't hang that up anymore.

I'm glad that Catholicism doesn't. I don't believe Lutherans do, but one Lutheran I know is certainly the exception. The other night at a bonfire he was going on a tirade about how all non-Lutherans were rotting in Hell, in a group of a bunch of Catholics (and one other Lutheran) who had a good friend from high school, a step-father, a boyfriend, and several grandparents die in the last two years - none of whom were Lutheran. I was going to yell at him, but then realized he would never change his mind, so I just got up and left.