Do BGLO's = equality???

[nicci19]

Originally posted by Manders:
Nicci,

you need to calm down. L-Dawg was simply stating her opinion which is just as valuable as your own! It isn't fair to say she is not knowledgeable. Her and zetace were having a fine debate. There is no need for criticism like your own. Don't be so bitter about the world either. You are a part of this COUNTRY not just your ethinicity. This holiday celebrates our countries independence. I understand your ancestors were slaves to white people but I think it's rediculous to bring it up in a debate such as this one. You are not your ancestors and neither is anyone else. You seem to have a lot of hate in you. How are we supposed to move past things like that with such feelings of hatred toward others. Please don't criticize others like you have. It really makes you, not them, seem like the ignorant one.

Oh I am far from being angry, and I notice that whenever someone tries to state a viewpoint debating racial politics they are described as angry. You dont know me and you have no idea of my temperment by these typewritten words. I have the same demeanor here as I would if I was debating in your FACE which by the way is a huge smile. I am a citizen of this country so I HAVE NOT AND WILL NEVER FORGET MY ANCESTRY FROM MY HOMELAND AND THROUGHOUT THE DIASPORA.

This is the history behind the holiday you celebrate. I thought it would be best to provide a citation.

Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, moved that Congress declare "that these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States."

"Adams, John," Microsoft® Encarta® Encyclopedia 99. © 1993-1998 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

At that time a Black man was 3/5 of a man, so I dont see the reason to hoop and holler about it..it is the truth and why are you so adamant to wanting to leave it in the past. What I am talking about is not hatred, but you use that term to stir up the feelings of other people on this forum. Manders I believe it is YOU that is full of this hatred that you speak of, dont try to project your motives and resentments on me, I am merely stating facts, which by the way you did not address. I wonder why .....hmmmm

Oh have a great 4th Manders, just remember that it is your independence you are celebrating not mines.

Oh, and for the record, my degrees in Biology and Genetics and clear common sense has enlightened me to KNOW that I carry the souls and genetic characteristics of my ancestors. By the way, its evident that the ancestors have passed on their resilience, tenacity and most of all courage to endure "THE STRUGGLE".

YOU WOULD NOT UNDERSTAND.......

Charles: I am not going to get into a back and forth about the definitions. I own a dictionary and I am quite sure you own one too. I know for sure that Black people are represented in EVERY nationality and ethnicity because you cant dismiss the power of MELANIN.

[This message has been edited by nicci19 (edited July 02, 2000).]

[nicci19]

Originally posted by Charles:
nicci, I'm not an expert in history or geography so please forgive my mistakes on that part, my spelling, etc. But I know for a fact that I am right in my point about the meaning of ethnicity.

You say ethnicity "refers to a shared and common cultural heritage amongst groups of peoples", sorry, that's the meaning of CULTURE. A shared/common cultural heritage amongst a group of people IS their culture.

Nationality does not refer to a person's "blood" history (ethnicity), such as Italian, Russian, etc. Nationality DOES denote an individual's belonging to a NATION.

All this info about ethnicity, culture & nationality is in the dictionary (check if you do not believe it). If you so much enjoy debating & educating the not so knowledgeable, I suggest you pick up a copy so you are well armed with the correct information.

By the way, Jewish is a term used to describe an ethnicity AND a faith, though independently of one another. Just as there are people of other ethnicities who practice the Jewish faith, there are also people of Jewish ethnicity who practice other faiths.

I take it that you are not Jewish, because your response was....(just refer to the last paragraph and see if that makes sense now that you have read it again). Judaism is a religion and not a race or ethnicity as you have been led to believe. If your hypothesis could hold water then Catholics would be referred to as an ethnicity...hmmm sounds funny doesn't it. If someone is raised under the Jewish faith and practices another faith he/she is labelled a convert of their new respective religious denomination. Please dont go there unless you are able to put the TRUTH on the table where it belongs.

Have a great 4th by the way!

[Manders]

Oh and Nicci yet again contradicting yourself by saying that I don't know you yet you stating the EXACT same sentence "I think you are the one filled with hatred" by YOU thinking you know me. Too many double standards.

[AlphaChiGirl]

<<Judaism is a religion and not a race or ethnicity as you have been led to believe.>>
--I've always learned (from Jews and non-Jews alike) that there is in fact a Jewish race and a Jewish religion, both separate entities. I'd like to know from where you're getting your information.

[chAKAlate]

I must say I am exremely proud of being part of a BGLO.

Yes a Black greek letter organization.

I am so tired that now that this country has decided or has been forced to decide to include Blacks in the collective of this country. That African-Americans all of a sudden have to drop the institutions they were forced to create to help themselves.

I don't think so. I am not going to change the legacy of my organizaiton because now America has decided to include me.

I personally would have only joined a BGLO. I want to be a part of an organization of women who understand the struggles I go through not only as a woman but as a Black woman. Can anyone say double whammy?

And we as African-Americans should not apologize for our institutions. All of you concerned Whites worried about separation and devisiveness. Why don't you focus your energy on making sure that this country lives up to its legacy of freedom and equal opportunity. SO that there won't be a further need for people of color to form their own organizations. If African-Americans could find affirmation and respect in predominately white organizations. There would be no need to ceate new ones.



------------------
Aim for the moon,.... if you miss you'll be among the stars.

[Caramelattsu]

[quote]Originally posted by Shelacious:
[b]

Originally posted by butterrfly:
L-Dawg...I completely understand your perspective. I think that minority issues are only perpetuated when minorities segregate themselves....even with something has "harmless" aa the "unofficial" org name, BGLO.

It makes sense to me Butterrfly. I would only make mention, however, that to imply that only "minorities" segregate themselves would be an oversimplification. It is in the nature of humans to find ways to seperate ourselves from each other into still smaller groups. Otherwise, we'd all, regardless of race, gender, class or moral values be in one, big happy fraternity. A fraternal organization of middle-class, white men who share similar backgrounds and values will (and has, time and time again) still decide to form a new fraternity, based on differences or "segregation" within that group. People segregate...that's why there are so many different types of orgazations in the world that are essentially the same.

So let's not imply that we only segregate along racial lines, because that is far from the truth...we seem to try and segregate along ANY darned line we can find.

I totally agree with you Shelacious. No matter what, poeple as a whole will seperate themselves. With the BGLO's, if it was just for African-Americans then there would only be one org., Alpha Phi Alpha, but BGLO's are separated into many different org., some for women, some for men.

[DELTABRAT]

Manders:

How dare you say to nicci that we are not our ancestors and neither is anyone else. F*** that!!! That's the problem we have now. Black people, dear, are a people that are very community oriented and we see ourselves as a COLLECTIVE!!! I AM MY ANCESTORS. I have NO reason to bow my head and be ashamed of my ancesotrs, maybe you do. If you choose NOT to claim your heritage then so be it. BUT NEVER try and say that I am NOT my ancestors. You see how it works. By saying that to nicci, you AUTOMATICALLY are referring to ME!! I don't even KNOW nicci personally, but I do. This probably makes no sense to you because if you are white, you come from a people that are VERY INDIVIDUALISTIC. We do not. Watch yourself, sweetie.

Nicci,

Thanks for puttin' it down.

PEACE

[nicci19]

Originally posted by DELTABRAT:
Manders:

How dare you say to nicci that we are not our ancestors and neither is anyone else. F*** that!!! That's the problem we have now. Black people, dear, are a people that are very community oriented and we see ourselves as a COLLECTIVE!!! I AM MY ANCESTORS. I have NO reason to bow my head and be ashamed of my ancesotrs, maybe you do. If you choose NOT to claim your heritage then so be it. BUT NEVER try and say that I am NOT my ancestors. You see how it works. By saying that to nicci, you AUTOMATICALLY are referring to ME!! I don't even KNOW nicci personally, but I do. This probably makes no sense to you because if you are white, you come from a people that are VERY INDIVIDUALISTIC. We do not. Watch yourself, sweetie.

Nicci,

Thanks for puttin' it down.

PEACE

Girl, you know that its only love here for my brothas and sistas alike, good lookin. They would never understand but that is not my focus as you can see. Everytime I read a response it is always directed to a minute detail not worth arguing because there is nothing there and the true issue at hand is left on the table. But what can one expect when the truth is unyielding, and most of all brute and upfront.

MANDERS, and ALPHACHIGIRL
For all who would like further clarification on the so called Jewish "race" dont make me laugh.... read THE ISIS PAPERS by Dr. Frances Cress Welsing, if you cant find it on the web or in your local barnes and noble then consult the many bookstores the feature Black/African literature...oh you dont know of one, oh well sort of proves my point that you Manders and the others who are unaware...traverse your world through the tint of narrowscoped, pigeonholed, limited (but of course happy to be that way) type of lenses.

Stop being afraid of seeing and learning more about the truth and move from behind your fears. Here is a wonderful site that can begin to clear your haze, look I even copied it for you and everyone else http://www.blackhistory.eb.com/ go the link called Race and Ethnicity and maybe you will realize what some of us Brothas and Sistas have been proclaiming from the Middle Passage till now. I bet you dont know what the Middle Passage is, oh I got to stop because I am ROTFLMAO....woo my stomach is in stiches...


Deltabrat please email me I would love to talk to you offline. Thanks

[Manders]

All of you getting all upset over all of this and all pissed off...go back and look at the mature way this was discussed in the beginning. There is NO REASON to say F***K that or this. That is absurd. I can tell you that I am NOT the picture of my ancestors. Maybe I come from a murderer and maybe YOU come from someone you're not very proud of either...should I say that you will be and are the same? That's not fair. I'm not going to argue about all of this with all of you. (and I never said anything about the jewish religion, i don't know where you got that) please don't argue with me anymore. You may feel like I'm closed minded but I feel like you are equally closed minded. If you have anything else to say about this maybe you all can do it in a more civil way.

Woah you kids need to calm down. From what I see there is a lot of attacking going on. This was a civil debate gone bad. Nicci and others you need to lay off a little. Your arguments are a little out there and you know what, don't throw your "you're so ignorant" comments at me. I'm part of a BGLO

[Manders]

Deltabrat I don't think you could have made a more racist comment. HOW DARE YOU generalize MY people (as you say) by saying I'm individualistic. WHat if I said "you're black so you're (fillinthe blank) Don't be so hippocritical. If you want to have a civil argument don't use such outlandish arguments and don't you dare stereotype ME if you want Me to respect and understand YOU.

[nicci19]

Originally posted by JBell:
Woah you kids need to calm down. From what I see there is a lot of attacking going on. This was a civil debate gone bad. Nicci and others you need to lay off a little. Your arguments are a little out there and you know what, don't throw your "you're so ignorant" comments at me. I'm part of a BGLO

I dont recall ever addressing my email to you, this is the first time I have seen your username. To my knowledge this is a civil debate but people like yourselves tend to read too deep into the typewritten words you see and generate all the emotion that is not there.

In reference to the line "you're so ignorant". If the shoe fits...... .I did not direct this to you but if you feel that it was directed to you then oh well, I dont see how you belonging to a BGLO is relevant to that line, please read ALL of my posts, then maybe it can clear things up. Happy 4th

[still waters]

I don't feel any love in this room! I am a proud member of a BGLO, and personally I think this thread is getting a little too heated. I think that L-dawg and Zetace were having a really good conversation before it was taken to a very unnecessary level. Everybody calm down. EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THERE OPINION. How is someone who dosen't know about BGLO's suppose to know what we stand for if they don't know. Just my $19.13 worth. Peace