I suicided

[pinksequins]

DGTess nailed it. There need not be a sound or persuasive reason. These women can make whatever choice they deem right for them, whether we personally agree or not. Not all PNMs are seeking friends -- like it or not, there are status seeking PNMs; there are Regina George PNMs. If a PNM wishes to ISP, so be it. Lectures are not going to change their minds nor necessarily make them feel bad. Often it has the opposite effect.

[pinksequins]

AZTheta's post crossed as I typed. Very good points.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by maconmagnolia

For those who are anti-SIP: you'd rather Patty PNM list two chapters, one of which if she gets she will decline the bid, and therefore take a spot from Betsy PNM who would love a bid to the chapter Patty didn't want? That's just silliness.

This argument holds no water. We are almost always talking about the WRC, in which case, Betsy's "spot" will not be taken. If they make quota, Betsy will be a QA.

[DubaiSis]

It also goes a bit in contradiction to all that is formal rush. The chapters spend a week telling these girls that they and ONLY they are the very best chapter for them. They sing it, clap it, whisper it in hushed tones; it's what rush IS. So a girl believes the hype so fully at a chapter that she is not willing to accept that other chapter that doesn't sing, clap and/or whisper it quite as convincingly. I WISH the rushee would think more practically about what sorority membership is and just accept what she is offered, but the reality is many girls will not be able to see beyond the hype.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by sigmagirl2000

I advise at a school with only 3 chapters. There is only one invitational event before pref. Frequently we have PNMs who must miss a round of parties for athletic or academic commitments. After only meeting them once, we have to decide if we want to meet them for the 2nd time at preference meaning we'd be required to put them on a bid list. It is almost impossible to get exceptions granted to not list every woman at preference.

As my French teacher would say, that is the BOOOOL SHEEET.

And I'm guessing that the chapters are small enough so that one or two missteps as far as membership selection is enough to bring down the chapter. Someone isn't thinking things through.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This argument holds no water. We are almost always talking about the WRC, in which case, Betsy's "spot" will not be taken. If they make quota, Betsy will be a QA.

That's what I was thinking - this mythical "spot" is usually filled by snap bids or open bids. So you miss bid day, honestly, it isn't that big of a deal in a collegiate career full of membership.

[PinkSkyAtNight]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

DGTess nailed it. There need not be a sound or persuasive reason. These women can make whatever choice they deem right for them, whether we personally agree or not. Not all PNMs are seeking friends -- like it or not, there are status seeking PNMs; there are Regina George PNMs. If a PNM wishes to ISP, so be it. Lectures are not going to change their minds nor necessarily make them feel bad. Often it has the opposite effect.

Yes, plenty of Regina Georges, I don't see it as my job to educate or persuade them to be anything else. Usually this type of attitude is so engrained, that is isn't really you can coach someone into being open-minded. In all likelihood, their parents and their upbringing had a lot of influence on it.

On that note, I can think of at least three Regina Georges in my pledge class who pretty much went out of their way freshman year to erode the morale of my class, by continually reminding everyone how lucky we were to have them, as we were their 2nd choice. I remember at our freshman walkout, overhearing someone tell them, "too bad you didn't suicide" when the subject came up, again. They quit by mid-semester of sophomore year and nobody missed them. We didn't stoop to trying to convince them to stay or get mad at them, this would have only inflated their egos. In fact, we were a lot stronger when they did leave. There were a couple sisters who wanted to drop for other reasons along the way, and they were worth fighting for.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by PinkSkyAtNight

Yes, plenty of Regina Georges, I don't see it as my job to educate or persuade them to be anything else. Usually this type of attitude is so engrained, that is isn't really you can coach someone into being open-minded. In all likelihood, their parents and their upbringing had a lot of influence on it.

On that note, I can think of at least three Regina Georges in my pledge class who pretty much went out of their way freshman year to erode the morale of my class, by continually reminding everyone how lucky we were to have them, as we were their 2nd choice. I remember at our freshman walkout, overhearing someone tell them, "too bad you didn't suicide" when the subject came up, again. They quit by mid-semester of sophomore year and nobody missed them. We didn't stoop to trying to convince them to stay or get mad at them, this would have only inflated their egos. In fact, we were a lot stronger when they did leave. There were a couple sisters who wanted to drop for other reasons along the way, and they were worth fighting for.

Oh, this reminded me of the recruitment laws thread. I'll have to find it and bump it.

[ASUADPi]

Originally Posted by pinksequins

In their minds, they simply do not want the chapter. They would rather not be Greek (whether or not that is a fair or correct assessment). Chastising someone may, in fact, reinforce the PNMs view rather than persuade her otherwise.

But this is obviously NOT the case of the OP as she started her post indicating that she SIP'd and wanted to know about COB.

In cases like this I have to agree with ALS463, it is hard for me to imagine that in a chapter of 300+ women and a new member class of at least 130, that she could't find someone to form a relationship with.

But I do understand that 18-19 year olds don't look beyond what they see in front of them. They are 1) listening to the tent talk and 2) only thinking about the sisters they have spoken too, not the 200+ that they have never talked too.

[pinksequins]

There are two issues: The one, as AZTheta pointed out, is the perspective on the practice of ISP: some find it offensive; some find it is what it is. Varying perspectives are fine. The second issue is lecturing. A number of posters objected to lecturing. I would agree with them --- lecturing frequently backfires, only solidfying the recipient's mindset. (Think also of other contexts such as the workplace or politics. What oftentimes happens is that people try to avoid the chastiser). The second is a style issue rather than a substance issue. There are ways to frame a potentially more effective or persuasive response. Here, for example, it might have been: "Not receiving a bid to House #2 seems to be the first outcome you sought. The second outcome of a bid to a different house will be, as you know, a challenge. There are fewer slots and they are often given to women who are already friends. The odds are long, but sign up with the Greek Life office". That response is relatively factual and makes the point. Is it persusive? Who knows (and does it matter)? But it puts the responsibility and action back in her court. And I do give credit to those who see "What are my chances" as a euphemism for a complaint. Answer: Sign up and you will find out.

[Katmandu]

The differing points of view and the insights shared on this thread have been interesting and helpful to me, and frankly, these types of threads are one of the reasons I stay connected to GC. I am one who would typically encourage a PNM to list all of her options, give it a try, etc, and tell a collegian that there is "no way you won't find friends in a 100+ member chapter."

But as several have pointed out, there ARE valid reasons to SIP--and what seem to us to be invalid reasons, may still be vital to the 18/19 year old woman who is living this experience. It's also a good reminder for me that when we are sharing experience and giving advice to PNMs, there is a clear cut difference between hand slapping and lecturing and stating cause/effect and laying out realistic options.

[Nanners52674]

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

Amen. And it's your whole HS class of just women. That makes it even more likely that you'll make friends. The sheer numbers make it improbable that someone wouldn't meet like minded people in any group of that size.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

Doesn't matter.

Not your choice. Or mine. Or anyone else's but the woman who makes the choice.

You've just run this woman through a week of emotional crap and now you want to tell her "Here. Here's a chapter, now go find someone in this mass of humanity to connect with."

Right or wrong (in some opinions), it's her choice. Assigning motives that probably aren't there, and expressing them curtly, furthers the stereotypes.

[PearlGirl13]

When my daughter was going through recruitment last year, I used the analogy of getting engaged compared to being married. I likened Bid Day and all it's hoopla to getting engaged - the ring, telling your friends, facebook posts..., but reminded her that the really sweet part is the long-term relationship of marriage. If she only focused on Bid Day, she could miss out on many years of ups, downs, hugs, tears with people who shared a unique bond.

She ate it up, nodded in agreement, voiced her appreciation for my sage advice and ......

SIPed.

It worked out for her and now that she has had one recruitment "on the other side" she realizes how close she came to missing out on what she considers to be the best part of her college experience.

Young, tired, emotionally stressed young ladies can make reckless decisions. Sigh...