I suicided

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by PinkSkyAtNight

Yes, plenty of Regina Georges, I don't see it as my job to educate or persuade them to be anything else. Usually this type of attitude is so engrained, that is isn't really you can coach someone into being open-minded. In all likelihood, their parents and their upbringing had a lot of influence on it.

On that note, I can think of at least three Regina Georges in my pledge class who pretty much went out of their way freshman year to erode the morale of my class, by continually reminding everyone how lucky we were to have them, as we were their 2nd choice. I remember at our freshman walkout, overhearing someone tell them, "too bad you didn't suicide" when the subject came up, again. They quit by mid-semester of sophomore year and nobody missed them. We didn't stoop to trying to convince them to stay or get mad at them, this would have only inflated their egos. In fact, we were a lot stronger when they did leave. There were a couple sisters who wanted to drop for other reasons along the way, and they were worth fighting for.

Oh, this reminded me of the recruitment laws thread. I'll have to find it and bump it.

[pinksequins]

AZTheta's post crossed as I typed. Very good points.

[DubaiSis]

It also goes a bit in contradiction to all that is formal rush. The chapters spend a week telling these girls that they and ONLY they are the very best chapter for them. They sing it, clap it, whisper it in hushed tones; it's what rush IS. So a girl believes the hype so fully at a chapter that she is not willing to accept that other chapter that doesn't sing, clap and/or whisper it quite as convincingly. I WISH the rushee would think more practically about what sorority membership is and just accept what she is offered, but the reality is many girls will not be able to see beyond the hype.

[pinksequins]

There are two issues: The one, as AZTheta pointed out, is the perspective on the practice of ISP: some find it offensive; some find it is what it is. Varying perspectives are fine. The second issue is lecturing. A number of posters objected to lecturing. I would agree with them --- lecturing frequently backfires, only solidfying the recipient's mindset. (Think also of other contexts such as the workplace or politics. What oftentimes happens is that people try to avoid the chastiser). The second is a style issue rather than a substance issue. There are ways to frame a potentially more effective or persuasive response. Here, for example, it might have been: "Not receiving a bid to House #2 seems to be the first outcome you sought. The second outcome of a bid to a different house will be, as you know, a challenge. There are fewer slots and they are often given to women who are already friends. The odds are long, but sign up with the Greek Life office". That response is relatively factual and makes the point. Is it persusive? Who knows (and does it matter)? But it puts the responsibility and action back in her court. And I do give credit to those who see "What are my chances" as a euphemism for a complaint. Answer: Sign up and you will find out.

[Katmandu]

The differing points of view and the insights shared on this thread have been interesting and helpful to me, and frankly, these types of threads are one of the reasons I stay connected to GC. I am one who would typically encourage a PNM to list all of her options, give it a try, etc, and tell a collegian that there is "no way you won't find friends in a 100+ member chapter."

But as several have pointed out, there ARE valid reasons to SIP--and what seem to us to be invalid reasons, may still be vital to the 18/19 year old woman who is living this experience. It's also a good reminder for me that when we are sharing experience and giving advice to PNMs, there is a clear cut difference between hand slapping and lecturing and stating cause/effect and laying out realistic options.

[Nanners52674]

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

Amen. And it's your whole HS class of just women. That makes it even more likely that you'll make friends. The sheer numbers make it improbable that someone wouldn't meet like minded people in any group of that size.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Amen. And it's your whole HS class of just women that like you and want you to be a part of their group. That makes it even more likely that you'll make friends. The sheer numbers make it improbable that someone wouldn't meet like minded people in any group of that size.

Fixed your post for you

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

I came across this photo of the entire ZTA chapter at USC and I'm sharing it in this thread because sometimes visuals make a point words can't.

That chapter is at least twice the size of my high school graduating class (170 kids) Saying you can't find anyone in this massive group to be friends with is as ridiculous as someone saying they can't find a single friend in high school (yes it happens, but it's a rare case, as it would be here) and heaven forbid you spend time with them to give them a chance first.

Doesn't matter.

Not your choice. Or mine. Or anyone else's but the woman who makes the choice.

You've just run this woman through a week of emotional crap and now you want to tell her "Here. Here's a chapter, now go find someone in this mass of humanity to connect with."

Right or wrong (in some opinions), it's her choice. Assigning motives that probably aren't there, and expressing them curtly, furthers the stereotypes.

[PearlGirl13]

When my daughter was going through recruitment last year, I used the analogy of getting engaged compared to being married. I likened Bid Day and all it's hoopla to getting engaged - the ring, telling your friends, facebook posts..., but reminded her that the really sweet part is the long-term relationship of marriage. If she only focused on Bid Day, she could miss out on many years of ups, downs, hugs, tears with people who shared a unique bond.

She ate it up, nodded in agreement, voiced her appreciation for my sage advice and ......

SIPed.

It worked out for her and now that she has had one recruitment "on the other side" she realizes how close she came to missing out on what she considers to be the best part of her college experience.

Young, tired, emotionally stressed young ladies can make reckless decisions. Sigh...

[DubaiSis]

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

I've been trying to think of how to put these exact thoughts into words.

All of the above x 10!

[als463]

Originally Posted by DubaiSis

I don't think anyone supports a girl listing a chapter from which she is not willing to accept a bid. If that is her position, then by all means SIP. I just get really annoyed at the woe is me posts here from the girls who had a terrible rush and what's she supposed to do now that she doesn't belong to a sorority when in fact she did have an option. And in MOST cases if she had just sucked it up she'd have ended up happy. But there is no scenario where I can accept that answer from an incoming freshman at a school with chapters of 100+ members. SIP if you want, but do NOT come here and use the didn't fit in defense. Thankfully there are some schools where the girls seem to have really figured that out and as a result the pledge classes are mammoth. But there are still some schools (and my alma mater is still guilty, but I'm hopeful this year) where far and away too many girls are not giving the WRC's enough of a chance, especially when that WRC has 100+ girls. Because really, in that case how weak is it really, and what are they really lacking?

I want to echo what ASTAlumna06 said earlier. I agree with this 100x over. I also love how Nanners posted a picture of Zeta Tau Alpha. That's a great visual of what some of these ladies are missing. If you SIP and take it in stride--okay. Whatever. I also agree with what everyone else is saying that they don't want Bitter Betty hanging out during Bid Day and ruining it for everyone else. I am with you all 100% on that one. I wouldn't want that. The point I was making, and it was not nearly as well put as DubaiSis and others put it, is that playing the smallest violin in the world when you make a choice like that gets under my skin. As I stated, ALL the chapters at the University of South Carolina are pretty amazing. I would have been proud to be a member of ANY of them in undergrad because Greek life in the SEC is unlike any other.

[Pamt]

I agree. As some of you know, my daughter rushed as a sophomore at UF and did not receive a bid. There are no real answers "why." A poor decision to visit a a frat house to see friends or the fact that she's a sophomore? A solid GPA (3.6) but not as high as other sophomores? Who knows. I DO know that she was prepared to accept a bid at ANY house whether she loved the house during rush or not. She could have left during the next few weeks if she truly didn't like it but I'm betting that would not have happened.

[MaryPoppins]

When Rush Counselor's over stress maximizing PNM's options in order for the PNM to be eligible for Quota Plus: PNM who really ought to SIP puts down all her Pref Party Chapters even when she wouldn't show up if given a bid to #3 or maybe even #2. This is where Panhellenic achieving that goal of high placement rate runs in the face of the interest of the PNMs and Chapters.