Former Penn State Coach Arrested

[knight_shadow]

Originally Posted by psusue

Let me repeat-- JoePa is being made a scapegoat by the media because he is the most famous person involved. Period.

Let me preface this by saying, outside of my love for B10 athletics, I have no connection to PSU. Regardless of what happens to JoePa, my life will go on. I also don't want to minimize the alleged victims' trauma, as no one should have to experience this.

That said, I agree with you, psusue.

Everyone is piling on JoePa because of his position. I haven't seen anything about Second Mile allowing Sandusky to interact with children until 2008. I have seen few articles addressing the fact that the police and child welfare were aware of the 1998 event. Why weren't there any charges filed at that point? Why wasn't a caseworker tasked with following up with Sandusky after that?

Most of what I've seen has said that JoePa should have taken this a step further by banning Sandusky from campus. Yes, football is a big deal, but that's not his job. The person whose job it is (Schultz) HAS been charged.

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by kddani

The district attorney of that county disappeared in April 2005 and was just recently declared dead (never found a body). There are all kinds of conspiracy theories on that one. He investigated the '98 incident.

OMG I saw that on "Disappeared." What if there is some link? Creepy!!!! They didn't seem to find any other reason why the man would just vanish.

[*winter*]

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188580-100.stm

[knight_shadow]

I'm curious to know what else folks think JoePa should have done.

[amIblue?]

I would have started by banning Sandusky from using the facilities from his departure from the program up until last year, for one.

Sandusky was originally investigated by the university police in 1998. He retired in 1999. The GA witnessed the rape of the boy in 2002. Why did he still have access to the facilities?

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I just want to jump in and ask if the GA's at Penn State are unionized. If they are not, it's very likely that the GA had no protection as a whistle-blower. Even state laws may not provide any protection, because of the bizarre way GA's are not-quite-employees of the university.

Now, does the guy still have a moral responsibility to report what he saw? Probably, but I don't know enough about the guy to know his circumstances, and what would have happened to him and/or his family if he had lost his assistantship.

Same goes for the janitor. What protections does he have? Could he find himself out on the street the next day?

I say this not to excuse these individuals, but to point out the importance of making sure low-level workers have rights.

[AOII Angel]

I thought this was particularly damning.

"The failure to report the 2002 allegations would appear to break Penn State's own reporting methods for sexual abuse on campus," wrote Rep. Patrick Meehan, R-Pa., in a letter to Duncan. "Had the 2002 allegations been properly reported, investigated and disclosed, the later instances of abuse could have been prevented and future victims protected."

http://m.espn.go.com/ncf/story?storyId=7209890

Apparently protocol was not followed. It's not the job of administrators, football coaches, etc to decide if a claim is true or not. That's the job of the police. It protects further victims and doesn't "ruin" lives or careers if their are no victims. To an outsider, this looks like a group trying to protect a football program at the expense of young boys. Luckily the trustees of Penn State are ready to make sure that never happens again.

[psusue]

Originally Posted by als463

psusue,

I understand your feeling that this is more than a university-it is our family. I agree with that a 100 times over. Whether or not you believe JoePa did what all he could have done or should be seen as a bad guy does not bother me as much as you saying that McQueary did what he should have done. Did he STOP the abuse that he was witnessing with his own eyes? I'm not an angry / violent person but, if I witnessed that in front of my own eyes--I would have done a heck of a lot more than just go and "report" it. Sandusky would have lost a whole lot more than respect if I would have seen it. He would have lost a few teeth. You don't walk in on that and just turn away to go "report" it. Maybe I shouldn't advocate for punching him square in the face (or in other places) but, I can say that it sounds like McQueary didn't really confront the problem. As for the Janitor--where is he/ she and why is THAT person not being investigated too? This whole thing makes me sick!

It makes me sick to think of as well. But I also know that shock can literally render one speechless and unable to move. I want to think that I would scream and run for help, but in reality I have no idea what I'd do. Also if he had screamed, there could be a number of things that could have happened, not all of the outcomes being that Sandusky would have been able to be convicted or stopped. There are just too many what ifs. Literally, just too many. I do hold McQueary in a harsher light because he witnessed it, but he still technically did what he should have in this situation.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

This is the dumbest thing I've read today. Please stop being an apologist to an apologist to a pedophile.

Okay, we all know that Joe Paterno fulfilled his legal obligation according to protocol. But, you know what? Joe Paterno is/was one of the most powerful men in college sports. Had he really wanted to, he could have superseded protocol.

I have to disagree with you there. If Sandusky had been tipped off to an investigation he could have fled, gone further underground with his perversion, etc. Here is another article that supports how Joe reacted to it. I'm sorry, I agree with what he did. You can disagree with me, but in cases like these, there is a way laid out like this for a reason.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

It's not as if this hasn't been done before, by someone with a whole hell of a lot more to lose than a college football coach. A priest went to his superior about a suspected pedophile. When it appeared that the diocese was going to sweep it under the rug, guess who went to the authorities? That's right, the priest. Here's someone who superseded protocol in order to DO WHAT WAS RIGHT. Joe Paterno was too much of a coward to do that.

Now I know that this opens up another can of worms, but this may not be the best example to use as clearly, the whole priest scandal is far from over and this is not the same situation at all-- Joe's superiors made it seem like they were handling it. Haven't you ever been lied to convincingly before?

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Also, if he didn't trust this McQueary guy enough to follow up on his concerns in more than a half-assed way, why is dude his assistant? He didn't believe him when he reported being an eyewitness to the rape of a child?

In reporting child abuse it is good to be cautious and let the facts speak for themselves. It's not that he didn't trust his assistant, but with allegations such as these one must always be able to see both sides of the potential issue.

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Oh, and this line, from Joe Paterno himself?

"The kids that were victims or whatever they want to say, I think we all ought to say a prayer for them. Tough life, when people do certain things to you."

Victims or whatever. Classy. It is tough when someone rapes you and the people who could help you look the other way for the good of a football team.

Wow. If you didn't know this sound bite was taken after students went to JoePa's house to support him and he came out to talk to them even though he a. had zero obligation to do so and b. was completely unprepared for it. He's also over 80 years old and may have been trying to think of what he was going to say. Not to mention the fact that he may have been told by his superiors not to call the children victims because these are technically still allegations and if you haven't noticed, Penn State apparently thinks not talking about this is the best way to go.

[psusue]

I'm going to just say that I don't agree with much of what has been happening lately. I did not attend the riot nor would I ever, I don't even think most students really understood at that point what it was about. In the days to come we will find out more about what has taken place and I hope eventually, for the victims' sakes, that justice is served. I just beg of your patience and reserve of judgement of the culpability of some until this investigation rests.

To give you some perspective, it honestly feels like some long lost great uncle molested some family friend's kids and we now found out that our grandfather might have tried to cover it up. You really have no idea how hard our campus is taking this. These events go against everything we've ever stood for and have shaken us to our very core. We are rallying around our traditions and pride because we need to remember where we've come from to see where we need to go.

We are grieving for the families and know that the university that we have known and loved has forever been rocked and everything has turned upside down. We are trying to process what has been happening and unfortunately the university is staying silent on the matter which is not helping anything. Many of us feel betrayed, angry, and alone. We are also very young and may not be handling this in the best way, but we're trying. I hope that very soon more information can come to light and answers can be gained from this. I hope that the perpetrators can be brought to justice and I hope that the victims can find closure and healing. I beg again for your patience and understanding as we are all going through this difficult time.

[southbymidwest]

And the GA or janitor for that matter couldn't have walked out of the building and called the police anonymously right then and there? I know, woulda coulda shoulda.

I find it hard to believe that Joe did not know the extent of what the GA saw- I would think that he is a savvy and political guy, you can't survive as a major college coach for that long without learning how to play the game with the administration and trustees- surely considering his friend and long time member of his staff was being accused of such heinous activities by another member of his staff, wouldn't he want the GA to tell him EXACTLY what he saw-not in a prurient way, but because he would want to have all the facts, as the GA believed them to be, before him? IF he truly didn't ask the GA, then he is guilty of being a giraffe and sticking his head in the sand.

Joe has (had?) great power, and thus has great responsibility, as the saying goes. He told the AD and president to shove it in so many words when they tried to oust him in 2004. He knew the board of trustees and big athletic donors had his back, and so he was bullet proof in that regard. Surely he could have had the ear of the administration to, at the very least, ban Sandusky from campus and revoke any privileges he had immediately. But as far as we know, he didn't. So he deserves to have some splash on him.

[DrPhil]

Then Second Mile should share the blame with JoePa and others.

The ultimate blame is on Sandusky. But, this all reeks of an institutional cover up on the part of Penn State and Second Mile (which is even loosely affiliated with Penn State). Even a missing/declared dead DA with no notes for successors is like an episode of Law and Order.

The fate of those kids rested with the legally and morally obligated adults who could help them. That was clearly not Sandusky and it should have been the many adults who were supposed to be a refuge. I pray that they do not find that they were running a pedophile network of sorts and Sandusky was just one of many adults who were engaged in this with the Second Mile kids.

[Kevin]

Pennsylvania ought to seriously consider rewriting its child abuse reporting statutes. Leaving such decisions to the chain of command is ridiculous. In this case, Schultz was several degrees removed from the situation. He had less information than anyone involved. Why not place the onus on the person with the most information to make that call and everyone after that?

[AZTheta]

I am reminded of

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

William Butler Yeats

and I think I have a new signature, thanks to MysticCat *unless he objects*.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AzTheta

I am reminded of

"The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity."

William Butler Yeats

and I think I have a new signature, thanks to MysticCat *unless he objects*.

No objection, especially not for anyone who quotes Yeats.

And Paterno will retire at the end of the season.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

I, like many Penn Staters, have spent the last few days trying to make sense of all this...trying to figure out what to think and how to feel about it all. I've wanted to comment on this, but it's taken me a few days to sort out how I feel and what I want to say.

My initial gut reaction, before reading all the news reports, was to defend JoePa. I do believe he is being villianized the most since he is the most famous and most visible and most symbolic of Penn State. The #1 villian should be Sandusky. #2 should be Schultz and Curley for failing in their job duties to report the incident to the police.

That being said, while JoePa may have done his legal duty, I feel that he failed in his moral duty. He is a man that has always been about Integrity, Honor, and doing the right thing even if it's not the popular thing. His life's work has been about teaching, guiding, and molding young men into outstanding, good men. For him to just report the incident to his higher ups and wash his hands of it and consider his duty done is deeply troubling to me.

I certainly don't know all the details, but I feel like a man of integrity and honor would have kept pursuing the matter if he saw Sandusky still roaming around free around campus all those years later. I know that people have said that abuse cases can be slow-moving and that the admiinstration may have told JoePa that they were taking care of it, but I feel a man of integrity and honor would not have just taken their word and would have been much more insistent and persistent in making sure that action was being taken and that Sandusky was being brought to justice. Yes, JoePa fulfilled his legal obligations as a coach. But I feel he failed in his moral obligations, especially as a leader and role model to young men and especially as he has built up such a stellar reputation and was always so on the up-and-up.

I read the grand jury indictment and it is infuriating. There were so many instances in which this monster could have been stopped, but so many people dropped the ball. Sandusky was questioned by police in regards to the shower incident in 1998 and the police basically told him not to shower with boys anymore. If he was Joe Nobody Creepy McCreeperson, would the police have just wagged their fingers and clucked their tongues "tsk tsk, no, no, no, no more showering with little boys"? (Side note: I feel there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER for an adult to be showering with a child. I remember back in middle school and high school mid-to-late-90's that our PE teachers weren't even allowed to go into the locker rooms when we were changing before and after gym class).

There was another incident where, if I'm remembering the indictment correctly, Sandusky was caught by a high school coach while he was laying on top of a boy in a high school weight room. The coach felt it was inappropriate enough to take it to the principal who banned Sandusky from the high school and from having access to kids at the high school. (Prior to that, he had free reign to use the gym facilities and to call Second Mile boys out of class to meet with him alone)

There have been comparisons between the Penn State scandal and the Catholic priest scandals, and I feel the comparison is apt. The high school knew something wrong and inappropriate had occurred and as far as I know they did not report it to the police. Instead, they just banned Sandusky from their school. Very much like how Catholic churches were transferring pedofile priests to other churches "now it's not my problem anymore, it's someone else's problem". Penn State did the same thing in regards to the 2002 incident. Their solution was to tell Sandusky he couldn't bring boys onto campus anymore and to call Second Mile. That was it!! And Sandusky was still going onto campus as recently as last week. Even if, as Schultz and Curley and Paterno and Spanier allege, they did not know that is was rape/sodomy, they did know that something inappropriate had happened. Even if they thought it was just showering or touching, they should have done more. They should have reported it to the police. If Sandusky had been a janitor that got caught in a shower with a young boy and not a prominent/respected/well-regarded coach/pillar of the community, would Penn State's reaction have just been "give us your keys janitor Sandusky and stay off our campus"?

I feel so terribly for the poor boy. He saw McQueary come into the locker room showers and probably thought someone had come to rescue him. Instead McQueary turns and walks away. I would like to think that, in that situation, I would have punched out the adult and gotten the kid out of that situation. But I don't know how I react. Maybe I too would have been so shocked/horrified/upset that I would be unable to act.

Finally, I know that Penn State can overcome and recover from this. But it is going to take time and it is going to require cleaning house. I know that there are students shouting for JoePa to stay, but I just don't see any way for that to happen. Everyone involved has been tarnished and sullied by this. We need a clean slate. And I believe that also includes Spanier stepping down. I am angry and saddened and disappointed that something this vile could happen at my beloved alma mater. The actions (or rather inactions) of a few men do not define Penn State. There are thousands upon thousands of good people at Penn State. I hope justice prevails and I hope the victims will begin to find closure and begin to heal.