I Am Not a Costume!

[AGDee]

How about a foreclosure firm throwing a homeless themed Halloween party? There are pictures at the link too.

http://gawker.com/5854540/top-forecl...halloween-bash

If you're one of the nation's top "foreclosure mill" law firms—representing Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America and Wells Fargo in their attempts to foreclose on homes and evict homeowners—what better way to celebrate Halloween than by throwing a party where everyone comes as a dirty, homeless victim of your practice?

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by AGDee

How about a foreclosure firm throwing a homeless themed Halloween party? There are pictures at the link too.

http://gawker.com/5854540/top-forecl...halloween-bash

If you're one of the nation's top "foreclosure mill" law firms—representing Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America and Wells Fargo in their attempts to foreclose on homes and evict homeowners—what better way to celebrate Halloween than by throwing a party where everyone comes as a dirty, homeless victim of your practice?

I saw this on NYT, too. Jerks.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

Well this was quick

I would find this humorous if I believed that people are capable of overlooking distractions and grasping the point. The "Halloween costume debate" (http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/10/we-...ons-halloween/) and resulting sarcasm are predominantly being led by white people who tend to rarely be concerned with such things (no disrespect to amIblue but for an extremely common and cliche` example, see amIblue's post about not caring if nonwhite people wear whiteface). Therefore, white privilege prompts not only a debate over something that rarely impacts "you" but also making fun of a movement. Not everything is so complex that having it removed from "your" life's options will floor you. "You" don't have to be able to say and do everysinglething.

[amIblue?]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I would find this humorous if I believed that people are capable of overlooking distractions and grasping the point. The "Halloween costume debate" (http://dcentric.wamu.org/2011/10/we-...ons-halloween/) and resulting sarcasm are predominantly white people who tend to rarely be concerned with such things (for an extremely common and cliche` example, see amIblue's post about not caring if nonwhite people wear whiteface). Therefore, white privilege prompts not only a debate over something that rarely impacts "you" but also making fun of a movement. Not everything is so complex that having it removed from "your" life's options will floor you. "You" don't have to be able to say and do everysinglething.

Even if I don't care on a personal level if people are in whiteface, I still get why it's offensive to be in blackface. Please don't lump me in with the people who think blackface/sexy thug/Mexican in a sombrero drinking tequila/etc. is OK. I'm not denying white privilege, but I also wouldn't dismiss the concerns of nonwhite people just because it doesn't happen to me or effect me.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Even if I don't care on a personal level if people are in whiteface, I still get why it's offensive to be in blackface. Please don't lump me in with the people who think blackface/sexy thug/Mexican in a sombrero drinking tequila/etc. is OK. I'm not denying white privilege, but I also wouldn't dismiss the concerns of nonwhite people just because it doesn't happen to me or effect me.

You caught me in mid-edit when I added "no disrespect to amIblue...?" If I was lumping you with those idiots I would not care about disrespecting you.

And regardless of whether you "understand," what you said about not being offended by whiteface is an extremely common and cliche` response from white people. It is not only embedded in personal opinion but also embedded in white privilege. It is an overall pattern beyond a personal preference.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by thetaj

I'm SO sick of the "sexy" costumes! I'm being Paula Deen this year and I've never been more excited.

There's a secret on PostSecret.com today that reads: "I miss the days when Halloween was about showing off your costume rather than your cleavage."

I couldn't agree more! I didn't do anything for Halloween this year (which could possibly be my first time ever), but it's definitely one of my favorite holidays.. But it's almost been ruined for me because of all these girls who dress like sluts. It's just not cute.

My boss' daughter and her friend (both in college) went to parties this weekend dressed as the two Austin Powers characters Fook Yu and Fook Mi. I've never even seen those movies, so I didn't know what my boss was talking about when she told me this, but I could only imagine. We were traveling on business last week, and she was on the phone with her daughter after dinner one night and said, "oh good, so you're going to be a slut," and her daughter started whining and said, "mom, that's not true.. Don't call me that." My boss said, "Uh, honey.. When a guy asks you who you are, you're going to answer 'Fook Mi'.. What do you suppose he'll think you are?" .. I couldn't help but laugh at the entire exchange.

Originally Posted by amIblue?

Am I offended by a nonCaucasian dressing up as any Caucasian person? No. Am I offended by white face? No. Have at it. Unless you're dressing up as me or my family and showing up looking like a jacked-up mess, you're probably not going to hurt my feelings.

Haha this is pretty much how I look at it.

Originally Posted by DrPhil

You caught me in mid-edit when I added "no disrespect to amIblue...?" If I was lumping you with those idiots I would not care about disrespecting you.

And regardless of whether you "understand," what you said about not being offended by whiteface is an extremely common and cliche` response from white people. It is not only embedded in personal opinion but also embedded in white privilege. It is an overall pattern beyond a personal preference.

So.. I can't say that I am offended by it, because I'm not.. But I also can't say that I'm not offended by it, because that's a cliche answer?

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, so please correct me if necessary. However, I don't find a problem with it, and I'm not going to be joining in on the fight to end it, but I can see how other people could find it offensive. I just play it safe and don't dress up as anything that could fall into that gray area.

Just be smart, people!

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

But I also can't say that I'm not offended by it, because that's a cliche answer?

Why can't you?

ETA: White people, in general, also have a tendency to attempt to reduce and simplify discussions to "are you telling me I can't..." when this is not about what white people can and cannot do.

ETA2: The fact that you're not offended by it is not the cliche` part. The "unless it has to do with my family or me" is the cliche` part because it does not address the root of this, racial dynamics and power dynamics. That does not mean you cannot say "unless it has to do with my family and me" but it is still a common response.

The blackface costumers are no more dressing up as my family or me than a whiteface costumer is dressing up as your family or you. Yet, I don't want the blackface costumers to have at it because this is about much more than "my family and me" and individual opinions.

[AOII Angel]

I love dressing up for Halloween, but that means being creative and not just buying a ready made costume from a Halloween store which is just stocked with ridiculous, standard slut fare. We just went to a birthday party for our friends' 11 year old daughter last night with the theme "Goth". Everyone went all out dressing up in goth attire and full out make-up. Their family ended up with a hilarious family portrait that should be their Christmas card. I can only imagine the reactions they would get from that!

[southernbelle14]

A) If it is not okay for a nonblack person to dress up/color their skin to look like a black person, then it is NOT okay for a nonwhite person to color their skin to look like a white person. Double standards such as this are not okay, and I am appalled that some seem to be supporting them.

B) DrPhil, you seem extremely hostile toward white people. If you want to make a valid argument, I personally believe you need to leave out all your generalizations of white people. It's the same as if I made some generalization about black people, which I'm sure you would not appreciate.

C) The movie White Chicks featured two black men dressing up as white women. Is this movie okay in your opinion?

[*winter*]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

There's a secret on PostSecret.com today that reads: "I miss the days when Halloween was about showing off your costume rather than your cleavage."

I couldn't agree more! I didn't do anything for Halloween this year (which could possibly be my first time ever), but it's definitely one of my favorite holidays.. But it's almost been ruined for me because of all these girls who dress like sluts. It's just not cute!

A- freaking- MEN! I'm so sick of women who are obsessed with looking like, being like, or living "life" of strippers...hookers...porn stars...etc. WTH??? Go to ametuer night at the strip club!

[DrPhil]

I do not think southernbelle14 understands that it was predominantly (or only? I don't know) the white GCers who said the whiteface is not offensive.

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

B) DrPhil, you seem extremely hostile toward white people.

This common response is only worthy of other common responses:

"I am still waiting on my 40 Acres and a Mule."

"Some of my bestfriends are white."

"I have white people in my family."

"Why can't we all just get along."

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

If you want to make a valid argument, I personally believe you need to leave out all your generalizations of white people. It's the same as if I made some generalization about black people, which I'm sure you would not appreciate.

Valid arguments actually work best when they are based on generalizations instead of individual perspectives and opinions. There are millions of people in this world so these topics are not limited to "I" and "you." Imagine how many social movements would have been lost if people were unable to see the larger pattern and instead said "but not EVERYONE feels this way so that means it can't be even remotely plausible!!!"

But, I am sure you were really talking about stereotypes rather than a generalization. They seem similar but they are not the same thing. So, if you can think of a generalization (based on trends and patterns across Black people) that is actually accurate, have at it. Here is one for you in case you are confused: African Americans are often not (read: generally speaking) conscious of racial sensitivity when it comes to depictions of white people.

That generalization does not mean that all African Americans are unconscious of this or that all African Americans are racially insensitive towards white people.

As for why this generalization may be the case:

There are generations of theorists, researchers, and practitioners who examine this and there are a number of possible explanations, including what some GCers have already stated or implied. Negative depictions towards whites are relatively rare across most contexts and there is a question as to whether there is a lasting negative impact (which can be different than the lasting impact of negative portrayals of various white ethnic groups). That does not mean that negative depictions of whites are not racially insensitive or dumb. It means that racism and discrimination are rooted in power. "White Chicks" and other rare media depictions of white people would never have occurred if the white bosses (read: the bosses of these Black people) believed that the social cost of depicting white people outweighed the financial gain.

[southernbelle14]

I just don't believe you can talk about how insensitive whites are to race when you're saying white people do this or white people say that. It just seems to go against the whole point. You don't want things that are racially offensive to be okay. So saying that white people do certain things and say certain things doesn't seem okay to me. Maybe in your experience it's true, but that doesn't mean it is in general.
Also, I was speaking to the other people who were saying it is okay for nonwhites to dress up as whites. Including agzg who said it was not the same as a nonblack dressing up as a black. If black people don't want white to dress up as black, then they shouldn't dress up as white. Just my personal opinion though.
And White Chicks was written, directed and produced by black men.

[psusue]

Because this thread has gone horribly off track, I'd like to get back to the main point of this-- people need to stop bastardizing others cultures and subcultures, period. If you choose to do this, you are choosing to be viewed as a huge jerk. Cultures and subcultures that are mocked by those of that (sub)culture are viewed less harshly in general and are to be left to the other members of that (sub)culture to be judged as okay/not okay.

White people, in general, need to realize that mocking another culture and expecting to get away with it is abhorrent and a shining display of white privilege. The idea that we (I am a white woman) even has the ability to do so in some circles is even more disgusting, because it's the idea that we can use a culture to get some laughs without anyone else objecting. Silently witnessing something and not doing anything about it is just as bad as doing it yourself. Intraracially we need to check each other and make sure that we are not perpetrating acts of white superiority, even if we think that it is just a joke.

Blackface, used in any context for any reason, is completely unacceptable and shows the ignorance of whites to the history of it. There is no historical use of 'whiteface' to demean and humiliate by any other race; therefore if someone were to do that it would be just them doing so. A white person using blackface taps into a time of injustice and prejudice and unleashes a world of connotations-- namely that African American and black people are dumb, incompetent, and less-than. This ignorance about the history and roots of these issues needs to stop. As trite as it is to say it, we are forgetting our (recent) history, and those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

I just don't believe you can talk about how insensitive whites are to race when you're saying white people do this or white people say that.

LOL. Sorry to break it to you but a discussion of racial insensitivity IS about "people do this or people say that." What is racial insensitivity if it is not about what people tend to say and do? I happened to be discussing white people because it applied in that instance but, as you hopefully read, I also discuss what Black people tend to do when applicable.

Originally Posted by southernbelle14

And White Chicks was written, directed and produced by black men.

Whose "bosses" are white people. Who do you think heads Revolution Studios and Columbia Pictures?

[southernbelle14]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

LOL. Sorry to break it to you but a discussion of racial insensitivity IS about "people do this or people say that." What is racial insensitivity if it is not about what people tend to say and do? I happened to be discussing white people because it applied in that instance but, as you hopefully read, I also discuss what Black people tend to do when applicable.

Okay, I'm obviously failing at communicating my thoughts/opinions in a clear way because you're not quite grasping what I intend to say. I blame it on my being tired, so I'm just going to give up for now.
And I did not mean to be rude or offensive with my posts, so I apologize if I came across that way.