Survivor: South Pacific (Survivor Season 23)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

For now I'm going to say that he made a smart move for himself. For one, he avoided having to pick a rock (still a stupid tie breaker, in my opinion).

This is the main reason I lean toward smart move. (And why don't they go back to something like building fire?) And I agree with just about everything else you said.

As for who goes to the jury and it being mostly Savaii, I wonder. Ozzy has a chance of going to the end -- he has a way of dominating in challenges. We could see Keith return from RI. And I don't know how much longer Brandon can last.

I did find myself wondering last night whether Ozzy, Jim, Keith and Whitney were watching last night and realizing the truth of what Brandon said -- that Cochrane turned because of the way they treated him.

Frankly, I kind of ached for Cochrane last night -- it's like he so wants to be the kid who fits in and never has, it was a little painful to watch. That was especially the case when, as soon as Keith was voted out, Cochrane turned around to Ozzy and Jim to say "I swapped. I'll explain later." It was like he just couldn't help himself. "Please like me anyway."

But I did moan when Coach was giving Conchrane the pep talk. Actually, much of what he said was good and remarkably sane and kind, but then he had to go and add "I wasn't always the Dragon Slayer."

Connection with reality lost. But Cochrane has an opportunity with Coach if he can take advantage of it. He's someone for Coach to mentor and protect.

[AlphaFrog]

I keep forgetting to figure RI into the equation...probably because it's such a big question mark. I love it and hate it for that. I can't decide if it adds an additional layer of strategy or additional layer of dumb luck.

Also, did anyone follow Ozzy's logic of why he gave the HII to Whitney? To me, Keith (or maybe Jim, but definitely Keith) was the obvious target. The only one that would have been more obvious would have been Ozzy himself had he not won immunity. I also missed their logic in voting for Rick and not Coach (or maybe Brandon) who is a bigger challenge threat.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I keep forgetting to figure RI into the equation...probably because it's such a big question mark. I love it and hate it for that. I can't decide if it adds an additional layer of strategy or additional layer of dumb luck.

Also, did anyone follow Ozzy's logic of why he gave the HII to Whitney? To me, Keith (or maybe Jim, but definitely Keith) was the obvious target. The only one that would have been more obvious would have been Ozzy himself had he not won immunity. I also missed their logic in voting for Rick and not Coach (or maybe Brandon) who is a bigger challenge threat.

The question in your second paragraph is answered in your first. They assumed Upolo wouldn't vote for Keith because they wouldn't send a stronger player to RI where he could pull a Matt. (I don't know that they were smart to think that, but that's what they were thinking.)

As for Rick, Savaii thought he was least likely to have an immunity idol.

What Probst has to say about last night is interesting, and he agrees with us about not letting it go to drawing rocks.

[AlphaFrog]

I don't see the strategy in not sending strong players to RI. So what if they pull a Matt? At least they're doing it on RI and not in the immunity challenges, which is giving your alliance's stronger players a chance to win immunity. Also, if you do the math, those stronger players are going to end up there eventually, so why not send them sooner rather than later on the chance that they'll have an off day or one of the challenges will involve more brains or luck than brawn or skill and they'll be eliminated.

[MysticCat]

Yeah. I didn't say it was smart thinking -- just that it was their thinking.

[SydneyK]

Yeah. What AF & MC said.

Great episode! I was happy to see Ozzy beat Christine if for no other reason than to see how Savaii's plan pans out.

I'm glad Cochran flipped, to be honest. I don't think it was the wisest move on his part, but I can completely see why he did it. The only reason I can't get fully on board with it is because he's still at the bottom of the totem pole, and he's a step lower on Upolu's pole than he was on Savaii's. Once Upolu votes out the remaining 4 Savaii members, Cochran's probably next to go. But, there's a lot of Survivor to be played before they get to the point of voting out their own tribe, so this concern may not carry much weight. Of course, this is assuming they continue to vote along tribal lines which, judging by the preview, may not be the case for much longer.

Brandon's comment to Keith (or was it Jim?) in tribal was spot-on. I liked him more last night than I think I have all season. However, I wasn't real big on the comment he made to Cochran at the end - something along the lines of 'stay close to me'. I think Cochran has finally started standing up for himself (it's about time!), and I'd hate to see him get taken under the wrong player's wing. Coach, sure. Brandon? No. Brandon and Cochran both have issues and the two of them together would send each other down a dark, spiraling path.

Oh, and MC, thanks for the link to Jeff's blurb on EW! I had quit looking for his blog ever since since he took up during-show tweeting instead of post-show blogging. While answering a few questions does not a blog make, it's nice to get some post-show info from Jeff.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Brandon's comment to Keith (or was it Jim?) in tribal was spot-on. I liked him more last night than I think I have all season.

I had the same thought. Then I realized we didn't see much Brandon last night, so maybe that's why I liked him more.

However, I wasn't real big on the comment he made to Cochran at the end - something along the lines of 'stay close to me'. I think Cochran has finally started standing up for himself (it's about time!), and I'd hate to see him get taken under the wrong player's wing.

I took the "stay close to me" comment as a literal, right-now thing -- stay close to me and I won't let them get too close to you or get in your face. Stay by me while things cool off.

And you're welcome.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

The question in your second paragraph is answered in your first. They assumed Upolo wouldn't vote for Keith because they wouldn't send a stronger player to RI where he could pull a Matt.

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I don't see the strategy in not sending strong players to RI. So what if they pull a Matt? At least they're doing it on RI and not in the immunity challenges, which is giving your alliance's stronger players a chance to win immunity. Also, if you do the math, those stronger players are going to end up there eventually, so why not send them sooner rather than later on the chance that they'll have an off day or one of the challenges will involve more brains or luck than brawn or skill and they'll be eliminated.

Looking back at it again, I seem to have misheard/misread Wednesday night. The thinking (which came from Jim) was this: Everyone assumed there would be a tie and they'd be going to rocks. Jim thought Upolu, expecting the tie, would vote for Whitney so that she would be exempt from drawing rocks, and Keith (and presumably Jim) would still be at risk. By contrast, if they'd voted for Keith from the get-go and the tie came as expected, Keith would be exempt from drawing rocks and wouldn't be going.

So sure of this was Jim that he didn't think there would be a tie -- he thought giving Whitney the idol would nullify all votes he was sure she'd get and Rick would be gone.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Looking back at it again, I seem to have misheard/misread Wednesday night. The thinking (which came from Jim) was this: Everyone assumed there would be a tie and they'd be going to rocks. Jim thought Upolu, expecting the tie, would vote for Whitney so that she would be exempt from drawing rocks, and Keith (and presumably Jim) would still be at risk. By contrast, if they'd voted for Keith from the get-go and the tie came as expected, Keith would be exempt from drawing rocks and wouldn't be going.

So sure of this was Jim that he didn't think there would be a tie -- he thought giving Whitney the idol would nullify all votes he was sure she'd get and Rick would be gone.

Well, they most assuredly outsmarted themselves, didn't they? This is the kind of overthinking that gets me in trouble in real life.

[DaffyKD]

Were the survivors allowed to bring their clothes this season? They are not running around in their undies and then Cochran had on a jacket I don't remember seeing him in prior to tonight.

Three people on RI?

DaffyKD

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by DaffyKD

Were the survivors allowed to bring their clothes this season? They are not running around in their undies and then Cochran had on a jacket I don't remember seeing him in prior to tonight.

Three people on RI?

DaffyKD

That was Coach's jacket. They all came more or less fully-dressed, and then they got swimsuits a few weeks in. Perhaps they realized how much America was scarred by Phillip last season.

And they did the same thing last season -- three people were at RI after the merge before they started challenges there again.

At the beginning of the season, I really liked Jim and Whitney. Now, they just grate on my nerves.

And Brandon's stupid was back at TC.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I had the same thought. Then I realized we didn't see much Brandon last night, so maybe that's why I liked him more.

Last night's episode certainly supports the 'the less we see of Brandon, the more we like him' theory. I think the kid is seriously deluded. Cochran doesn't stand a chance if he doesn't align with Upolus other than Brandon. Sofie, Coach, maybe even Albert. And it needs to happen soon.

It sounds like I'm pulling for Cochran. And maybe I am in a way, but I think I'm pulling for a moral victory instead of a literal Sole Survivor kind of victory. Cochran certainly isn't the first contestant to be bullied, and I'm sure he won't be the last. But it's been nice to see him get a little vengeance.

I chuckled at the end when, at Redemption Island, Jim, Ozzy or Keith said, 'We were supposed to be the final three.' Ha ha.

[AlphaFrog]

I watched last week's episode online since I was at Mozart Requiem dress rehearsal, and I think I shut it off to early (I thought it seemed short), because when last night's episode started, I did not remember two being voted off...

I guess it was an easy way to get to the backstabbing stuff quicker picking off the last two in a row last night.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I guess it was an easy way to get to the backstabbing stuff quicker picking off the last two in a row last night.

Right. And I thought it was interesting that Cochran called it.

Cochran is a smart kid, and he seems to understand a lot about the game of Survivor. I was so disappointed and surprised, then, that he didn't work harder to solidify the Cochran-Dawn-Albert-Sofie-Whitney thing. Had they done that, especially considering that two people were voted out, they could have practically guaranteed themselves a 1 in 5 shot. I wonder what happened to change their minds? Surely it wasn't Coach's cocky 'Instant death upon anyone who goes against my wishes' tirade.

ETA: I just reread this thread from the beginning. While I don't ordinarily quote myself, I chuckled at this:

Originally Posted by SydneyK

I like Coach more this time around than during previous seasons. He's still cray-cray, but he seems to have lowered that pedestal he put himself on.

Evidently, I was drinking the Coach Kool-Aid early on - I was duped! He hasn't lowered that pedestal at all. AT ALL!!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Right. And I thought it was interesting that Cochran called it.

Cochran is a smart kid, and he seems to understand a lot about the game of Survivor. I was so disappointed and surprised, then, that he didn't work harder to solidify the Cochran-Dawn-Albert-Sofie-Whitney thing. Had they done that, especially considering that two people were voted out, they could have practically guaranteed themselves a 1 in 5 shot. I wonder what happened to change their minds? Surely it wasn't Coach's cocky 'Instant death upon anyone who goes against my wishes' tirade.

Going into TC I was pretty sure that Cochran's foreshadowing of a double vote for Dawn and Whitney was a stronger possibility than voting Edna out. I think Cochran did it to himself, too, with the prediction. Knowing it was likly that they would vote twice in a row with no time for discussion kind of killed the plan to vote out Edna. That would have left too many variables including who to take out in the second vote and a contingency plan if that person won immunity.

What I still don't get...taking out someone like Coach or Ozzy's "second", especially at this stage of the game...why Edna? Yeah, she's probably voting for Coach...unless you take out Coach now and it's not an option. Yeah, he'd probably be pissed and not vote for whoever was a part of that plan, but unless you plan on taking him to the end, he's got to vote for someone, and he's probably going to vote for whoever comes back from RI, since they most likely won't have had a hand in voting him out. So, whether they vote him out now or later, they are probably not losing a jury vote.